Skunk2 spacer
03-05-2009, 07:19 PM
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Very well put and I feel very well known knowledge to most in the Z/G community (that use a freaking search button!). I find it had to believe that any performance upgrade will increase mileage, but if it can be proven repeatedly, then I would be interested. After reading the design/design flaws of the Z and G plenum, it only makes sense that increasing area will increase HP, so it makes sense that almost any spacer will increase HP some. If you just want "An increase" then get whatever. If you want to get the most increase possible for your motor....follow the numbers.
Very well put (and professional on both parts) and this thread should be something all noobs read when they ask about spacers.
Now, Motordyne....I would like to take my free gift as an XYZ pipe with HFC....I keed I keed!!!
Very well put (and professional on both parts) and this thread should be something all noobs read when they ask about spacers.
Now, Motordyne....I would like to take my free gift as an XYZ pipe with HFC....I keed I keed!!!
03-05-2009, 11:59 PM
#63
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ummm... for those that have posted "reasonable" response - let this fizzle... it's in the best interest of the parties that have posted viable info - to let it "set-in"...
Personally I see nothing other than a "Re-Do" - If Skunk2 wants to "prove” it's spacer...
I know TechnoSquare has an Open-House type gig scheduled for this Saturday... and according to UpRev, some kinda shindig is going down within the next week or so...
Those are two unbiased events with LOTS of VQ enthusiasts on hand to witness results...
I'm in LA/OC (So Cal) - if either of you = Motordyne & Skunk2 - have local vendors that I can pick up product from, I will obtain and provide for either/ or both dyno events... tested on my car or whatever car you choose that will be present.
Personally I see nothing other than a "Re-Do" - If Skunk2 wants to "prove” it's spacer...
I know TechnoSquare has an Open-House type gig scheduled for this Saturday... and according to UpRev, some kinda shindig is going down within the next week or so...
Those are two unbiased events with LOTS of VQ enthusiasts on hand to witness results...
I'm in LA/OC (So Cal) - if either of you = Motordyne & Skunk2 - have local vendors that I can pick up product from, I will obtain and provide for either/ or both dyno events... tested on my car or whatever car you choose that will be present.
03-06-2009, 03:27 AM
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Since I have a little pull with Nissan Sport we should have the SZM Three Plenums and Three Spacers... at Ten Paces article up on our website by the end of next week.
Many of you know that I was the the writer who conceived, contacted, coordinated, and complied the Sport Z Magazine Winter 06 Shootout Article.
That said, I felt obligated to make a couple of corrections to this tread.
First: Skunk2 was contacted by Sport Z Magazine (me) about submitting a part for the magazine article.
Second: Skunk2 did submit a plenum spacer to Sport Z Magazine (me) for testing. I received it on Monday along with a plenum -- one day after the test.
Here's what I wrote as part of the published artice.
Skunk2 VQ35 Plenum Spacer At the time of our testing, the $225 Skunk2 spacer was unavailable. This spacer differs from the competition with its 5/8” height and its carbon-impregnated nylon-6 material which, according to the manufacturer, “offers superior thermal insulation characteristics which also increases power by keeping the upper plenum and charge air temperatures lower.” This increase in height precludes the use of the G35’s engine cover and the 350Z’s stock strut tower bar. Like the similar products we did test, the Skunk2 VQ35 Plenum Spacer increases the plenum’s volume by an estimated 33.4 percent. At an estimated 6911 cubic centimeters it’s the “big” winner in the volume race. Skunk2 provided dyno results to back up their claims of 10+ hp at the wheels along with increased throttle response. Based on the results from similar products, we believe them. The Skunk2 Spacer comes with detailed instructions, composite pillar supports and longer bolts with washers. Special care should be taken to prevent vacuum leaks when installing this product.
As for independent evaluations, I invited several Z and G guys to participate in the shootout and to observe the results first hand so there would be many independent "witnesses". It turned out I missed thanking a couple of them in print.
Again from the published article...
And big thanks go out to our evaluators and wrenchers: Albert Lin, Anthony Hayslett, Clint Cheng, Gurgen Bagdasarian, Eric Ko, and SZM’s 350Z Editor Jeff Wisener. Not to be forgotten, the 350Z and G35 owners who sacrificed their cars for testing and helped evaluate products and wrench.
Hopefully this information helps to clarify some history.
Look for the complete article on www.nissansportmag.com next week.
Many of you know that I was the the writer who conceived, contacted, coordinated, and complied the Sport Z Magazine Winter 06 Shootout Article.
That said, I felt obligated to make a couple of corrections to this tread.
First: Skunk2 was contacted by Sport Z Magazine (me) about submitting a part for the magazine article.
Second: Skunk2 did submit a plenum spacer to Sport Z Magazine (me) for testing. I received it on Monday along with a plenum -- one day after the test.
Here's what I wrote as part of the published artice.
Skunk2 VQ35 Plenum Spacer At the time of our testing, the $225 Skunk2 spacer was unavailable. This spacer differs from the competition with its 5/8” height and its carbon-impregnated nylon-6 material which, according to the manufacturer, “offers superior thermal insulation characteristics which also increases power by keeping the upper plenum and charge air temperatures lower.” This increase in height precludes the use of the G35’s engine cover and the 350Z’s stock strut tower bar. Like the similar products we did test, the Skunk2 VQ35 Plenum Spacer increases the plenum’s volume by an estimated 33.4 percent. At an estimated 6911 cubic centimeters it’s the “big” winner in the volume race. Skunk2 provided dyno results to back up their claims of 10+ hp at the wheels along with increased throttle response. Based on the results from similar products, we believe them. The Skunk2 Spacer comes with detailed instructions, composite pillar supports and longer bolts with washers. Special care should be taken to prevent vacuum leaks when installing this product.
As for independent evaluations, I invited several Z and G guys to participate in the shootout and to observe the results first hand so there would be many independent "witnesses". It turned out I missed thanking a couple of them in print.
Again from the published article...
And big thanks go out to our evaluators and wrenchers: Albert Lin, Anthony Hayslett, Clint Cheng, Gurgen Bagdasarian, Eric Ko, and SZM’s 350Z Editor Jeff Wisener. Not to be forgotten, the 350Z and G35 owners who sacrificed their cars for testing and helped evaluate products and wrench.
Hopefully this information helps to clarify some history.
Look for the complete article on www.nissansportmag.com next week.
Okey back to all seriousness. I helped do a good amount of the Installs during the shoot out and participated and watched Tony from Motordyne experiment with different hardware for the revup motor. We've used MANY different G35s and 350z's from stock to slightly modded to make sure that ALL dyno results yield a beneficial gain. While at the end of the day a lot of trial and error and COUNTLESS spacers were used from the slightest to the largest sizes were used along with many other modifications to the intake manifold that crossed Tony at Motordyne's mind and us fellow R&D volunteers at the time were all put to test. A simple physics formula could've predicted the exact size the plenum needed to be for its greatest effiency. But in short I have to say that Skunk's dyno results are a little far fetched to claim 10whp increase without any more information - although maybe very possible. While Tony from Motordyne's results are posted via Dynapack it is a more realistic number for everyone to fallow considering the wide verity of wheels and tires that are available for both G35s and 350z that can effect both also all of Tony's runs (as well as Nissan Sports) runs were done on the same day, same tank of gas, and same pull (3rd pull with 1 burn pull).
Before Tony and Tony battle it out at a dyno.. A slight comparison..
Motordyne's Spacer is excellent in quality and is a very complete kit offering the shims necessary to raise the strut tower bar for clearance, A++ Install instructions, organized packaging, and at one point in time a free pen with every purchase.
Skunks Spacer was also packaged very well with all necessary hardware (I guess they do not include anything for the Z Strut bar - which they should). No experience on their install instructions.. But is more affordable to the everyday unemployed G/Z Driver =P
Motordyne's spacer is slightly more costly but made of aluminum in the USA and motordyne does offer a more complete overall kit - ISO Thermal Kit and mRev. But all with a hefty yet worthy price tag
Skunks Spacer unfortunally is NOT in the greatest shape after being installed driven, pushed and uninstalled multiple times. Although the spacer does not stay perfectly FLAT it does not leak (from an audible inspection) after install.
I will say the fallowing is junk tho
Blox, AAM (unless they've improved since 05 lol), Kentix manifold
The "battle" here isnt about which company produces a more superior spacer.. if that was the case the test wouldnt be on a dyno. Physics wise all 5/16 spacers will perform the same.. duh! its an argument of 5/16 Motordyne versus 5/8 Skunk and what we want to see is which spacer is more ideal for daily driving/track driving with its HORSEPOWER and TORQUE gains. Here is why I think 5/8th's claim of 10whp increase was a little far fetched but not impossible.
Far fetched:
1st OEM Cam Profile
2nd OEM Intake Manifold Design
Why its not impossible
Trying to keep this short:
How the spacer works.. Of course Tony didnt invent the "wheel" spacers were used back back in the carb days =) a spacer was inserted between the carb and the intake manifold. By adding a spacer the volume of air is increased after the carb between the intake manifold allowing the air and the fuel to mix better (achieve some velocity) before running through the runners and into combustion. What it also does (in our argument) is increases the available air. Now with a bigger volumed plenum at higher RPMs the engine is sucking in a lot of air without a problem (increase in high rpm hp) but the down side is with a bigger volumed plenum you loose a lot of natural velocity created by the plenum on lower RPMS. The goal of an intake manifold is to balance out effiency between high and low RPMs to an ideal level. Meaning if i were to **** around I can probably make an intake manifold that'll be useless but at 6500rpm make +50whp more then stock and have less torque then a lawn mower with vtec cams or make one that'll generate an additional 50ft lb of torque at 3,000rpm but loose out on 100hp at 6,500
lets leave it at that I dont want to spill the beans on the result of the dyno day.. =] hope I've shined some light.. if you dont get it just wait for the results
Just for more reference if the above quote with my name isnt enough: heres a link to my G35Driver Name, http://g35driver.com/forums/members/...sklumzyee.html
03-06-2009, 06:31 AM
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Eric,
We certainly thank you for your help and participation on that test day long ago.
Please re-read the article since you still have it.
Here are more clarifications based on the published article, as well as my notes, spreadsheets and non-published pictures.
1) As stated in my first post, the Skunk2 spacer was not tested. See pages 50 & 51 to confirm.
2) While I was present, all dynos were pre-planed and all time was billed to the magazine. Shawn Church heavily discounted over 16 hours of dyno time for us.
3) Each contributor was allowed to have two people attend as "witnesses". Each pair of company representatives could install their product if desired. One company took advantage of this provision... Motordyne.
4) While I'm not ware of any additional dynos completed after I left Churches, there were no Tony and SZM dynos while I was present. We did include four "side" dynos that were pre-planned and included in the article.
One was testing a rev-up engine lower collector on a 2003 non rev-up 350Z that produced very non-typical results. Page 48.
Two Dyno sets were completed with the then new MREV product on two 2005 rev-up coupes. Page 50 & 48.
One dyno set of a Z-Tube on a 2005 G35 Coupe. Page 50 & 48
5) Summaries and raw dyno test results were offered to all companies who supplied the products that were tested. One company took advantage of this offer... Motordyne.
We certainly thank you for your help and participation on that test day long ago.
Please re-read the article since you still have it.
Here are more clarifications based on the published article, as well as my notes, spreadsheets and non-published pictures.
1) As stated in my first post, the Skunk2 spacer was not tested. See pages 50 & 51 to confirm.
2) While I was present, all dynos were pre-planed and all time was billed to the magazine. Shawn Church heavily discounted over 16 hours of dyno time for us.
3) Each contributor was allowed to have two people attend as "witnesses". Each pair of company representatives could install their product if desired. One company took advantage of this provision... Motordyne.
4) While I'm not ware of any additional dynos completed after I left Churches, there were no Tony and SZM dynos while I was present. We did include four "side" dynos that were pre-planned and included in the article.
One was testing a rev-up engine lower collector on a 2003 non rev-up 350Z that produced very non-typical results. Page 48.
Two Dyno sets were completed with the then new MREV product on two 2005 rev-up coupes. Page 50 & 48.
One dyno set of a Z-Tube on a 2005 G35 Coupe. Page 50 & 48
5) Summaries and raw dyno test results were offered to all companies who supplied the products that were tested. One company took advantage of this offer... Motordyne.
Last edited by DaveO; 03-06-2009 at 06:46 AM.
03-06-2009, 08:27 AM
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^^^ this thread alone makes back copies of SportZ worthwhile
Man I miss the mod info in that mag... Project G35 was my favorite part... and features like the "Plenum Shootout", "Turbo Shootout" - I still re-read those articles from time to time
Man I miss the mod info in that mag... Project G35 was my favorite part... and features like the "Plenum Shootout", "Turbo Shootout" - I still re-read those articles from time to time
03-06-2009, 12:47 PM
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Oh yeah Dave, I know the Skunk wasnt available at the time. I still deal with G35s and Zs (mostly Gs) and have ran into both Skunk and Blox's spacers a few times. I'm just simply stating that Skunks spacer may work very well with the longer intake manifold with with the longer runners to bring back some midrange power that its lost for such a dramatic increase in plenum volume. A big enough increase in plenum volume that it may be sacrificing an unreasonable amount of lowend for some top end horse power.
We all know the difference in between the rev up and non rev up and the difference in intake manifold design, cams, and valve train. I'm not saying the Skunks spacer is of bad quality or anything nor does it NOT make its claimed 10whp but I'm saying we should take a look at its full dyno (with torque curve) against a STOCK revup's power band
- Eric
We all know the difference in between the rev up and non rev up and the difference in intake manifold design, cams, and valve train. I'm not saying the Skunks spacer is of bad quality or anything nor does it NOT make its claimed 10whp but I'm saying we should take a look at its full dyno (with torque curve) against a STOCK revup's power band
- Eric
03-07-2009, 10:27 AM
#69
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03-07-2009, 11:09 AM
#70
<o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" forum="" images="" smilies="" redface.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="Embarrassment" smilieid="3" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype><o>
</o>
For public review, a quick description of the Motordyne 350Z and G35 developments are shown here. <o>
</o> Late 2004 R&D of plenum spacers. 1/8" to 3/4" sizes tested.<o></o>
Early 2005 Aluminum internal supports are updated to self retaining, self sealing Nylon internal supports.<o></o>
July 05 1/2" plenum spacer tested on revup engine (shows no gains).<o></o>
August 05 The first MREV is tested (a REVUP breakthrough)<o></o><st1:date ls="trans" month="10" day="8" year="2005"></st1:date>
September 2005 Iso Thermal system developed.<o></o>
<st1:date ls="trans" month="10" day="8" year="2005">OCT 8 2005</st1:date> MREV+ developed<o>.</o>
Early 2006 gaskets are pre-applied to the spacer for better sealing and easier installation.<o></o>
Mid 2006 MREV2 released.<o></o>
Early 2007 plenum spacer gaskets updated.<o></o>
Early 2008-2009 Extensive exhaust system R&D. (MASSIVE BREAKTHROUGH! - the best of which has not been released and is currently in the patent process)<o></o>
<o></o>
There has been much more R&D than what is shown above, but it shows a general direction of what has been done at Motordyne.
<o></o>
If you would like to see links just let me know.
There are so many pages of independent tests and reviews it would take days to read it all.
----------------------
Skunk2,
Please reply to the questions in my prior post.
Thank you,
Motordyne<o></o>
03-13-2009, 05:07 PM
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03-13-2009, 07:48 PM
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^^^ Its a VERY good read!!! Lots of quality info
The Sport-Z Turbo shootout is one of my all time favs though!!! And the dyno day spreadsheet that listed everyone's mods... That mag has cost me A BUNCH of money (it was a major influence in my mod addiction, but oh so worth it!!!) - best VQ info mag EVER!!!!
Would love to see more of that in Nissan Sport
The Sport-Z Turbo shootout is one of my all time favs though!!! And the dyno day spreadsheet that listed everyone's mods... That mag has cost me A BUNCH of money (it was a major influence in my mod addiction, but oh so worth it!!!) - best VQ info mag EVER!!!!
Would love to see more of that in Nissan Sport
03-13-2009, 08:45 PM
#75
Not to add any more fuel to the argument but..... has anyone else had the experience of the skunk2 spacer not clearing the hood itself??? I don't see that mentioned anywhere in this thread but it ended up rubbing a shiny spot on the underside of my hood and also vibrated audibly until I replaced it with another product. (not motordyne)
03-16-2009, 12:19 PM
#78
Are you referencing this thread where evidence once again states that people have false information? lol
https://my350z.com/forum/intake-exha...mendation.html
By the way, I still hear the crickets chirping.
https://my350z.com/forum/intake-exha...mendation.html
By the way, I still hear the crickets chirping.
03-19-2009, 01:22 PM
#80
I think the point of contention is that Tony did a lot of testing by all evidence and his own admission and settled on two sizes that yielded the best results (5/16, 1/2).
if the 5/8th outperformed the 5/16 or 1/2 why would he have not used that from the beginning? I find it very hard to believe he magically overlooked that possible size.
Skunk2 'develops' products for a lot of platforms so I simply fail to believe they did even half of the testing that Motordyne did for our cars. The cost/benefit just isn't there for them I think. Skunk isn't doing anything but trying to profit off of our community. They don't innovate or care or participate. He is still creating products for our cars (exhausts now) and while I guarantee he isn't doing it out of the kindness of his heart alone his involvement and consistent activity lead me to say he is a stronger member of our community.
For even just that reason Motordyne will always get my business over others.
if the 5/8th outperformed the 5/16 or 1/2 why would he have not used that from the beginning? I find it very hard to believe he magically overlooked that possible size.
Skunk2 'develops' products for a lot of platforms so I simply fail to believe they did even half of the testing that Motordyne did for our cars. The cost/benefit just isn't there for them I think. Skunk isn't doing anything but trying to profit off of our community. They don't innovate or care or participate. He is still creating products for our cars (exhausts now) and while I guarantee he isn't doing it out of the kindness of his heart alone
his involvement and consistent activity lead me to say he is a stronger member of our community. For even just that reason Motordyne will always get my business over others.
