The anti-popcharger thread
04-10-2009, 11:43 AM
#61
All the datalogs I have disagree with what hrdrazine says. It is closer to 1 second (2 max). He is a reputable guy and I have some of his products, but I have to disagree with im on this count. I can't say I have ever, ever seen any dyno to prove otherwise or that the 06 box outperforms the JWT. Just a lot hype till I see other wise.
04-10-2009, 11:57 AM
#62
1 second of what? Temp? MAF voltage? Ign map differences?
Tony has the benefit of having been around alot of dyno pulls and alot of pulls done on the same car on the same day. Along with alot of other dyno pulls at various times.
Of course he could be incorrect. But I do value his opinion and defer to it until a comparison on the same scale shows otherise.
Tony has the benefit of having been around alot of dyno pulls and alot of pulls done on the same car on the same day. Along with alot of other dyno pulls at various times.
Of course he could be incorrect. But I do value his opinion and defer to it until a comparison on the same scale shows otherise.
04-10-2009, 04:15 PM
#67
I'll be sure to post it up if it happens, but I am not going to pay for an 06 box. If can find one locally for a quick swap.....I'll do it. Also I am going to be switching to a 3" MAF here in the next week or so (may affect the desired results of the comparison).
04-10-2009, 07:30 PM
#68
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Mind you that heat soak issues (that affect ignition timing being pulled) are not usually reflected in dyno runs since people usually dyno with their hoods open.
Unless if you drive around with your hood open, the problem of heat soak will only showup in real driving situation but no on dynos..
Unless if you drive around with your hood open, the problem of heat soak will only showup in real driving situation but no on dynos..
04-10-2009, 07:54 PM
#69
Mind you that heat soak issues (that affect ignition timing being pulled) are not usually reflected in dyno runs since people usually dyno with their hoods open.
Unless if you drive around with your hood open, the problem of heat soak will only showup in real driving situation but no on dynos..
Unless if you drive around with your hood open, the problem of heat soak will only showup in real driving situation but no on dynos..
.
04-10-2009, 10:11 PM
#70
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Mind you that heat soak issues (that affect ignition timing being pulled) are not usually reflected in dyno runs since people usually dyno with their hoods open.
Unless if you drive around with your hood open, the problem of heat soak will only showup in real driving situation but no on dynos..
Unless if you drive around with your hood open, the problem of heat soak will only showup in real driving situation but no on dynos..
Heatsoak is only a problem at standstill, its even a problem for people with stock intakes. No big deal, the best way to do away with it is a vented hood.
Last edited by terrasmak; 04-10-2009 at 10:17 PM.
04-10-2009, 10:13 PM
#71
Mind you that heat soak issues (that affect ignition timing being pulled) are not usually reflected in dyno runs since people usually dyno with their hoods open.
Unless if you drive around with your hood open, the problem of heat soak will only showup in real driving situation but no on dynos..
Unless if you drive around with your hood open, the problem of heat soak will only showup in real driving situation but no on dynos..
I took mine off when I first got my car, and have been driving without it ever since.
I needs mah maximum horsepowers!
04-11-2009, 08:44 AM
#72
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While I've never had a POP charger on my G, I have done experiments making the OEM intake like a POP charger by significantly opening up the airbox by removing the Powerduct cover and removing the over radiator snorkel. Removing these parts opens up the airbox by about 100% and makes the airbox far more open then the OEM 350z airbox.
I've datalogged with this setup and the underhood intake temps are alarming. On a 75 degree night with the OEM airbox, the intake temps are right around 10 degrees over ambient. Once accelerating the intake temps drop to near ambient after about 15 seconds and at speeds above 30mph.
When the modded airbox, the underhood intake temps spike to a massive 50 to 70 degrees over ambient after sitting for merely 20 seconds! It takes nearly 30 seconds to bring the intake temps down to ambient once rolling. Imagine the intake temps on a 90 degree day.
Here's the problem. You're loosing a lot power when your intake temps are so high. Sure, the underhood temps clear once you're rolling BUT if you're in a racing situation like at a drag strip, you're car is going to be down on a lot of power and during the duration of the run (14 seconds or less), the intake is going to be ingesting a lot of hot air. So basically, the POP setup will make you slower in the 1/4 mile.
As for POP chargers making power on these cars, show me a dyno other than a vendor dyno that showes these things making useful power. I have yet to see ONE dyno of a POP charger that makes more than 2-5whp at the very end of the rpm range. For those us that understand POWER UNDER THE CURVE, we know that gaining 2 to 5whp over the last 500rpms of the powerband does absolutely nothing for acceleration because the motor is only accelerating in that range for mere tenths of a second. A useful gain would be 10whp from 4000rpm to 6600rpms, not 5whp from 6100rpms to 6600rpms.
I've datalogged with this setup and the underhood intake temps are alarming. On a 75 degree night with the OEM airbox, the intake temps are right around 10 degrees over ambient. Once accelerating the intake temps drop to near ambient after about 15 seconds and at speeds above 30mph.
When the modded airbox, the underhood intake temps spike to a massive 50 to 70 degrees over ambient after sitting for merely 20 seconds! It takes nearly 30 seconds to bring the intake temps down to ambient once rolling. Imagine the intake temps on a 90 degree day.
Here's the problem. You're loosing a lot power when your intake temps are so high. Sure, the underhood temps clear once you're rolling BUT if you're in a racing situation like at a drag strip, you're car is going to be down on a lot of power and during the duration of the run (14 seconds or less), the intake is going to be ingesting a lot of hot air. So basically, the POP setup will make you slower in the 1/4 mile.
As for POP chargers making power on these cars, show me a dyno other than a vendor dyno that showes these things making useful power. I have yet to see ONE dyno of a POP charger that makes more than 2-5whp at the very end of the rpm range. For those us that understand POWER UNDER THE CURVE, we know that gaining 2 to 5whp over the last 500rpms of the powerband does absolutely nothing for acceleration because the motor is only accelerating in that range for mere tenths of a second. A useful gain would be 10whp from 4000rpm to 6600rpms, not 5whp from 6100rpms to 6600rpms.
Last edited by Dave B; 04-11-2009 at 08:47 AM.
04-11-2009, 09:53 AM
#73
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While I've never had a POP charger on my G, I have done experiments making the OEM intake like a POP charger by significantly opening up the airbox by removing the Powerduct cover and removing the over radiator snorkel. Removing these parts opens up the airbox by about 100% and makes the airbox far more open then the OEM 350z airbox.
I've datalogged with this setup and the underhood intake temps are alarming. On a 75 degree night with the OEM airbox, the intake temps are right around 10 degrees over ambient. Once accelerating the intake temps drop to near ambient after about 15 seconds and at speeds above 30mph.
When the modded airbox, the underhood intake temps spike to a massive 50 to 70 degrees over ambient after sitting for merely 20 seconds! It takes nearly 30 seconds to bring the intake temps down to ambient once rolling. Imagine the intake temps on a 90 degree day.
Here's the problem. You're loosing a lot power when your intake temps are so high. Sure, the underhood temps clear once you're rolling BUT if you're in a racing situation like at a drag strip, you're car is going to be down on a lot of power and during the duration of the run (14 seconds or less), the intake is going to be ingesting a lot of hot air. So basically, the POP setup will make you slower in the 1/4 mile.
As for POP chargers making power on these cars, show me a dyno other than a vendor dyno that showes these things making useful power. I have yet to see ONE dyno of a POP charger that makes more than 2-5whp at the very end of the rpm range. For those us that understand POWER UNDER THE CURVE, we know that gaining 2 to 5whp over the last 500rpms of the powerband does absolutely nothing for acceleration because the motor is only accelerating in that range for mere tenths of a second. A useful gain would be 10whp from 4000rpm to 6600rpms, not 5whp from 6100rpms to 6600rpms.
I've datalogged with this setup and the underhood intake temps are alarming. On a 75 degree night with the OEM airbox, the intake temps are right around 10 degrees over ambient. Once accelerating the intake temps drop to near ambient after about 15 seconds and at speeds above 30mph.
When the modded airbox, the underhood intake temps spike to a massive 50 to 70 degrees over ambient after sitting for merely 20 seconds! It takes nearly 30 seconds to bring the intake temps down to ambient once rolling. Imagine the intake temps on a 90 degree day.
Here's the problem. You're loosing a lot power when your intake temps are so high. Sure, the underhood temps clear once you're rolling BUT if you're in a racing situation like at a drag strip, you're car is going to be down on a lot of power and during the duration of the run (14 seconds or less), the intake is going to be ingesting a lot of hot air. So basically, the POP setup will make you slower in the 1/4 mile.
As for POP chargers making power on these cars, show me a dyno other than a vendor dyno that showes these things making useful power. I have yet to see ONE dyno of a POP charger that makes more than 2-5whp at the very end of the rpm range. For those us that understand POWER UNDER THE CURVE, we know that gaining 2 to 5whp over the last 500rpms of the powerband does absolutely nothing for acceleration because the motor is only accelerating in that range for mere tenths of a second. A useful gain would be 10whp from 4000rpm to 6600rpms, not 5whp from 6100rpms to 6600rpms.
Great writeup, i feel better about going back to OEM yesterday now!!
04-12-2009, 10:03 AM
#78
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Awesome. I'm actually doing the same damn thing. My brother is in a completely different state with my 06 Airbox just sitting in his garage. I'm trying to get it back as soon as I can. Once I do, I'm taking my car to the dyno for comparison runs. I also have Uprev's Cipher, so I can monitor the intake air temperatures while driving, and I'll provide those too. However, I don't know how long it will take for me to get this whole thing up and running. I might not have that box back for another month.
04-12-2009, 02:17 PM
#79
Awesome. I'm actually doing the same damn thing. My brother is in a completely different state with my 06 Airbox just sitting in his garage. I'm trying to get it back as soon as I can. Once I do, I'm taking my car to the dyno for comparison runs. I also have Uprev's Cipher, so I can monitor the intake air temperatures while driving, and I'll provide those too. However, I don't know how long it will take for me to get this whole thing up and running. I might not have that box back for another month.
04-12-2009, 03:57 PM
#80
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Having the only FI setup available uses the fatory intake setup(Stillen SC), after three days of driving around with a 2006 airbox with K&N drop in. I can't tell a difference between the two. The only difference i can tell is the OEM box is quieter. I achieve boost just as fast, and cannot feel any butt dyno difference between my popcharger and the factory box. Even at WOT pulls where it would be most noticeable.
For heat soak sake, i realize a FI setup is going to be less prone since it's flowing alot more air through the filter faster, thus "cooling" it off back down to ambient quicker..........BUT as far as which flows better, it would definatly show up easier if one flowed significantly better then the other with a blower running at 12,000+ rpms!!
If there is a difference i'm not sensitive enough to notice. And my A/F meter, and boost gauge aren't shoing any differen't either. This being said, i'm sticking with the OEM box.
For heat soak sake, i realize a FI setup is going to be less prone since it's flowing alot more air through the filter faster, thus "cooling" it off back down to ambient quicker..........BUT as far as which flows better, it would definatly show up easier if one flowed significantly better then the other with a blower running at 12,000+ rpms!!
If there is a difference i'm not sensitive enough to notice. And my A/F meter, and boost gauge aren't shoing any differen't either. This being said, i'm sticking with the OEM box.
Last edited by halfass872; 04-12-2009 at 05:01 PM.
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