Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

This is long (but then I'm done on it!)

By others admission in previous threads, modifications were needed to make at least some of them fit properly. Perhaps it's no big deal for you, and that's fine. If yours fit, even better. To me, it is a big deal, and as such, not something I want on my car considering they are not the easiest thing to get in and out in the first place. I like consistency. I like products where the first and the 100th fit the same. A test pipe that might need some grinding, IMHO, is a far cry from a header than may need it. You may be the guy who doesn't mind spending the better part of an afternoon modding something to make it work. I was there too at one point (with previous cars), but I'm not there anymore. The car is not the only thing in my life, and I don't particularly care if it gets changed today, or tomorrow, or 2 months from now. At this point, it's essentially done, and anything I change is just for pure curiosity. When I do have the time to sit down and change something as substantial as my current headers (which work fine by the way and had zero fitment issues), it needs to go smoothly, because I'm over having to mod things to make them work, unless that is my specific task at the time (like my install of the air duct last weekend). That may not make sense to some, and that's ok with me. I also only want the best that money can buy. If that means I can't get it today, then so be it. I value the overall quality more than the purchase price. That may not correspond to everyone's tastes or budgets, and I fully understand that.

If by overpriced, I assume you mean the SGM headers. First, price has not been established yet. I just used that figure as the ballpark of where they will be. Overpriced is a relative term. "What are you paying for here" is insulting IMHO. Do you have the skill and resources to assemble your own header? When you do, try one out, show the gains, make a small batch as these will undoubtedly be, and then figure out what it needs to sell for to make a modest profit and get back to us. Is a header with proven, substantial gains, intelligently designed, made of the great materials, with a real collector (not some chinese wannabe version of one), assembled by hand, and produced by a fellow enthsuasist member of the community overpriced? I guess that depends on your perspective. Is a Greddy TT kit for $7000 with an intercooler overpriced? Perspective once again. I am not the guy who thinks a 911 is overpriced. I think it's expensive yes, but not overpriced. There is a difference in my eyes. Others can't seem to separate the two. I for one admire the innovation that Sasha has gone through on his header, and the time and commitment he has put forth. I know first hand what it is like to spend countless hours working on the design and packaging of a product that you know is not going to be a vast seller. But you go through it anyway, because you are an enthusiast first. Do you think those Chinese factories are full of enthusiasts like you and I, or are they filled by guys who don't care if they are making lunchboxes, or headers, or fake medicine? Having been in this "scene" (on the import side) since it's early years, I appreciate the time that the true enthusiasts put into their car. I think it should be rewarded.

Simply regurgitating that "you should put it towards FI" may however be the right answer for you, and that's cool. I could have easily built a very badass FI car for myself with all the money and time I've spent. I didn't want one though. Never even crossed my mind. I have been in countless well built FI'd Z's. I know how fast they are. I still don't want one. It's not a knock on those setups at all - they are terrific machines, and relative bargains compared to the cars they can run with. But I don't want it for myself. Why? I have my own reasons. For others, their own reasons may be different. This whole "NA is a waste" is in the eye of the beholder. I don't think any real enthusiast would begrudge anyone for choosing one route over the other. There is a vast difference between having a preference and basing your choice on that preference, and just outright taking a **** on anyone who doesn't follow a prescribed path. It's just as stupid of an opinion as a Porsche owner saying "why would you mod a Z, when you could put that money towards a used 996 TT". Build it for you and you are halfway to success. Build it for someone else, and you end up chasing your tail, wasting your money and showing off to people who really don't care in the first place.

As I said, we have data on other headers, we don't have data on the ebay level longtubes. A bunch of "my car is faster than my friends" is utterly useless to me, and frankly to everyone else. My car outruns both Turbonetics single turbo Z's and Vortech Z's when installed on stock motors. So what? They still make substantially more power than I do, as shown without question on a dyno. Saying "+1 great power output" is wasted bandwidth if you don't have the evidence to back it up. I fully understand and appreciate that not everyone has the time, or budget to do before and after dyno's everytime they mod. I wish I did, but I don't have the time. Without that data, touting them as some amazing performance mod is simply a guess, plain and simple. I know about several of them based on what I've read and based on the design they appear to have copied. That design is flawed. Moreso than some of the shorty headers out there. Yes they are inexpensive. Many put that as #1 priority. Others take that and see a polished piece vs a rusty cast iron piece and assume the polished piece is singificantly better. These same people also don't really want to know the facts about what they have purchased, all they are after is showing off to their local friends and being "the guy with the highly modded car". I look forward to 1cockyZ's testing, as he is addressing one of the important aspects of that flawed design with his reworking. Will be interesting to see the results.

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

+1 on the supersprints

INTIMAZY

iTrader: (15)

+1 on Z1 Performance

It's even better that there are companies that come to these forums and share their achievements and engineering with us. Many companies have come here only to get ripped apart by enthusiasts, experts, and average joes with dyno figures and timeslips. SG has brought excitement to NA boltons that hasn't been seen on this platform probably since the Cosworth or Motordyne product range.

Megan products never were "broken in" on the forums. (I will use "broken in" instead of "proven")
They were the first to bring longtubes to the Z33 since Xerd offered headers back in 03 or 04. As far as I can tell, Megan just copied the Xerd design with limited effort. I don't think anyone was able to bring about any type of proof of their gains. Dynos, timeslips, whatever... To me it just looks like a company looking to profit off enthusiasts with copied products using questionable materials and construction.
SG could have done the same! They came across a good set of headers and could have just copied them and sold them, but that is not the direction they took. They introduced themselves and opened themselves to criticism. Overpriced? At least there are prototype dyno sheets showing gains. If the Megans are anything like the old Xerds then there won't be much to talk about in terms of gains over a comparable shorty header and test pipe combo.

GT-Z

iTrader: (2)

I think ive heard of it... yall drift by airpark!!!

whitez33350ztt

iTrader: (4)

i have to get in this thread im a friend of 1cockyz. i live only 20 min from him and hes a great guy and will be doing most of my work for my car. i also have an 03 350z track model with hfc, megan racing headers, injen td, injen cold air intake, aam plenum spacer, pullies, and aam custom reflash, brian crower 264 cams, and now im at 280 whp on a dynojet, stock clutch stock flywheel, next mods are clutch flywheel, and 1cockyz was telling me to let him install his megan longtubes with his slight modifications hes done to them and than clutch flywheel and osiris uprev dynotune. im hoping to c by posting this to see if i will gain some good results and maybe break 290 whp im only 19 and realy cant go FI since its my dd and dont wanna build my bottom end, plus all motor is priceless wen u got power

Zexy

iTrader: (55)

Useless to you as you're interested in bringing information of "quality products" to your customers which sells and brings you $$. Plus these headers are more competition to you selling set of $600+ headers. OF COURSE youre going to credit and butter up quality product a shop like you sells. You're talking about doing research and putting science for the sake of information of what these headers actually do or how they flow blah blah blah. If the OP posts that they havent cracked in the long term and they actually fit, then its all good in my book. Plus i'd consider enthusiasts reviews before i do a shops posting theyre 2 cents on a thread.

The matter of the fact is ppl like me and the guy who praises these headers can care less about reading long threads about discrediting these headers. They are nice on the pocket and hey.. They're not burns collecters but wtf cares? Maybe the guy on the track or the guy who money isnt an obstacle. Theyre probably cheaper replicas of XERDs and they do flow better than OEM headers. We are aware from these threads that they are of less quality than youre $2000 set but you know what?? Some of us dont want to spend our quac on a set of fancy $2000 headers.

Toby-22

iTrader: (25)

I have the Z bonesZ33 installed longtube headers on (his 2nd time). And i must say i am very impressed. Its been 1yr with 0 issues, fitment is good and gains were felt in the butt dyno(I had resonated Testpipes before). I know thats not a legit way to say i gained power, but i dont care cuz i personally felt it. bonesZ33 ran 13.3 with only intake/longtubes/kinetics V+/Invidia exhaust with stock ypipe. That is with stock everything else and no tune with 115k miles at 95degree weather on his 03 Z(again not the best way to show gains but u dont have to listen if u dont want to). Im not sure why people are bashing the megan longtubes??? At least they make em, no other company at the moment have em.

Anyway i can see where both bonesZ33 and Z1performance are coming from. I can relate where bones is coming from but at the same time i know better than to question Z1's knowledge when it comes to our cars. If i had the $ id go with the SGM longtubes easy, but im very happy with my "cheap, poorly made by non enthusiast" megan longtubes

Toby-22

iTrader: (25)

if someone is willing to donate me some $ id be more than happy to get my car dynoed with only popcharger, plenum spacer and longtube headers lol. Ill even put it back to stock minus the longtubes if needed

Toby-22

iTrader: (25)

I got mine for $200 shipped Brand new. How much do headers + Testpipes cost??? Headers alone cost as much as these and most likely more, then add another ~$120-$200 test pipes.

INTIMAZY

iTrader: (15)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Heade...ht_3402wt_1099

Right at 150 bucks including shipping. For both.
I would love to see the longtubes outperform a shorty+test pipe combo. I just don't think it will. The number of bends in those longtubes doesn't seem to be beneficial for flow. Even when I took my Crawford headers to VTR, the tech though THOSE had too many bends!

Toby-22

iTrader: (25)

So your comparing megan longtubes to even crappier ebay crap? LOL i thought the whole point of your argument was the "broken in" or watever. Im sorry but if had to choose from longtubes to ebay header/tp, id choose the longtubes.

Were talking Megan racing products here. You guys act like their made in some guys kitchen. They make coilovers/exhaust system/interior etc. Im pretty sure they at least tested it in some way. I mean they are a pretty big name brand no matter how they started out. Anyway like i said, i dont care wat anyone else think. I felt gains from topspeed resonated tp to longtubes, if someone is willing to give me $ id be happy to go back to stock for a baseline and reinstall longtubes to see an increase in the dyno. ALSO, im the type of guy that needs to have a ''name brand'', but these longtubes was hard to beat.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

If a product proved both inexpensive and quality and showed itself to work, then that is cool, we would offer it. We aren't dealers for SGM at all, nor does SGM buy their products from us. We are colleagues in the industry and have exchanged pm's and phone calls sharing ideas previously but that's it. I have no agenda to push with them, or any other brand. Headers are not a big seller at all, and since 2003, we've sold fewer than 10 total headers for the Z/G. We offer Borla exhausts but not their headers for the Z - because they don't work, and they have shown themselves time after time to not work. It's why we don't offer Ichiba's headers but we sell their test pipes and their spacers. Till I know they work, it's not worth the sale to me. I currently have Crawfords on my car. We're not dealers for Crawford's products. However, Doug and I have spoken many times, and I enjoy his insight and his contributions to the community in the past. I know he's an enthusiast at heart, and I know he tried alot of things before settling on the current design. Like Sasha, we've shared ideas and opinions in the past. When the opportunity presented itself for me to get a set of Crawfords, I got them, because they had proven themselves worthwhile. I didn't buy mine new, and I didn't get any sort of hookup, I found a used set that was nearly new. In the same vein, I appreciate what Sasha has done with his development on these units. I like how has shown what they have done and why they have done it, and shown the gains several times. It's the same reason why so many people embrace Motordyne's products. Tony has showed himself to be someone who cares about the community and has spent time and money developing products for that community. Others opinion can vary, and that's all good. My thing has always been to only offer those products that we would use on our own cars, and that's how we'll continue to do things. Anyway, I'm pissing in the wind at this point. Good luck to all, whatever route you go.

INTIMAZY

iTrader: (15)

That's debatable. As far as I'm concerned, they are the same thing. My testpipes went after less than 2500 miles. Sure, I guess you can blame it on having an exhaust without flex joints, but my Crawford cats never cracked nor did the Kinetix.
What makes Megan different from "ebay crap?" They're all knockoffs and like I said, quality is a relative term here. Other Z owners I know that own Megan would not use the word "quality" to best describe their products. The word they prefer is "bargain" or "value." I can't think of ANY Megan products that don't resemble another established product. I'm sure that can be argued for many other companies, but many do go out of their way to improve on the products they are imitating.

With that in mind, the question I would prefer answered is whether they do outperform "ebay crap."

My "broken in" comment was directed at Megan's presence on the forums, or lack thereof.

1cockyZ

iTrader: (46)

I personally have the dc headers and I bought a set of the generic ebay headers before them. Side by side the quality is indisputable. Most of the cost goes into labor to build headers. So how much more does it cost to have someone hand finish the collectors or take an additional step in manufacturing to have a machine do it. But a human being still has to load the part in the fixture. Most of the test pipe failures are due to the megans and most other "cheap or knockoff" parts using 18 gauge steel of questionable quality. Although I prefer the 18 gauge on the long tubes because it allows for a larger id of the piping. In my project of doing new collectors on megan longtubes I can tell you that proper finishing, welding, and collectors would be horribly expensive as its very time consuming. Just take the time to compare the prices of true merge collectors from any brand to the swedged collectors used. Now don't even get me started on fitment issues.

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

You know, what blows me away is the fact that so many of these various long tube headers have been sold and there are no independant pre/post dynos. (at least none that I know of)

Heck, if I installed a set of logn tube headers on my Z or G, I would pre/post dyno it like crazy and post the results everywhere.

Toby-22

iTrader: (25)

i was wondering the same thing lol. Maybe its cuz theyre cheap (reason they have these longtubes LOL). For me, a $200 longtube plus the 4hr install isnt worth paying ~$80 just to prove if i gained power or not. THe butt dyno was enough. If i payed $500 for headers and another $200 for test pipes then i would def. be paying for a dyno to see if i gained power with the $ i spent. But as of now im not doing any dyno till im done (lightweight clutch/flywheel and Tune).

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

People have long been dynoing spacers in the same price range and they require much less effort to install yet there are hundreds of dynos of them all over the place.

Regardless of part cost or installation time... what about simple curiosity?
Exploring and mapping the unknown?
Being the first to say to the world "Hey look at this long tube header dyno!"
Where is the individuals passion and drive?

These are long tube headers we are talking about. Nobody has dynod them.

I havn't seen a single independent dyno... For all the effort it takes to install them... Nobody has enough curiosity to question the results?

For me, I can't understand it. After installing a set, it would drive me nuts not knowing what it did.

warmmilk

iTrader: (5)

so basically what you're saying is that you don't care if a product performs, just as long as its cheap and doesn't break? buying 10 useless products at 200 bucks each is much more of a waste of money then buying one product with proven results for 2000 bucks. i really don't understand why its so hard to see the logic in that...


so basically what you're saying is that if you pay 200 bucks for something, you don't care if its completely useless and a waste of money, but if you pay 500 bucks for something you wanna make sure it works.

i just invented this chip, installation is really easy, you just hold it next to your ecu for 7 seconds, it uploads the custom map by itself via bluetooth. gains 10 whp, and only 150 (50 bucks less than the amount of money you don't care about wasting on something useless), pm me if interested

Toby-22

iTrader: (25)

Man shut up, dont talk to me like im some moron fool. The cat delete on the longtubes itself gained power. As for the headers, maybe i gained 1hp or lost 1hp who gives a crap. If only you knew how much faster my Z is compared to other stock/bolt on Zs youd understand (ill stop there before i get flamed). And as for your chip, you can shove that up your A$$!

Toby-22

iTrader: (25)

Again, im just trying to help out with my own personal experience. IF you dont want em i dont give a $hit. I could care less wat anyone else do with their car.