I'm sure you know what I mean, when I say variations between build. It's not just a matter of what type of parts but the spec of each of those parts and at the end how they interact with each other. You can't disagree with me that a turbo setup is a lot more intricate and involved then an NA one. Are you also telling me that you learn nothing from all those builds in the Shop Build section and XKR's build, since they are so different? None of that information is usable for anything other then another build with similar parts? Would you say that my numbers from my Cosworth test are not relevant as well, I do have upgraded cams which less than 1% of the VQ Community has, but you did agree that it's not surprising that I lost power. One thing I would say is that the gains or loss numbers I will see will not be directly transferable to another car, but do you honestly believe that my NA engine has changed so much to the point where an intake modification will behave completely the opposite way? If so please elaborate on this.

Yes I know you mentioned spacers, but the point is that a few (5-10) hp or tq number makes a difference in NA and yes there are certain spacers that show a few hp or tq difference. I'm not only talking about peak...

Though it has been said many times on the forum that the Cosworth doesn't perform well for NA, I've only found two independent sources that indicates this loss in power and it's all compared to spacers with no dedicated tune and without any extension in RPMs. Did you find any, if so please link them in here as it would be very beneficial? The best (not ideal) test I could find that gives somewhat of a better idea of how it performs with a full tune was on _jb's car and the results looked more then decent. If you read through his test you will know why it was not ideal. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the Cosworth plenum designed around NA, if so do you think they just decided to make a piece of garbage that luckily turned out to be a good thing for moderate built FI?

 

Hi Jorge,

I knew I could count on you and Eric to be at Intense Motorsports side through all this. That's fine.

You know we all worked quite well together as a Recon Unit (RU) team when it came to shining the light of truth on the scammer Relentless Autosports. The purpose of the RU was to protect the consumers.
It was effective and it was good.

You, like 99.99+% of the public, don't have your own dyno and you probably havn't done your own testing of a spacer on a REVUP. So I can't fault you for not knowing. In this case, hold off on judgment and wait for the dynos to come out. Once the dynos are released, let the Recon Unit act accordingly.

Just like we all did in the Relentless Auto thread, this is the same task of standing up for the unknowing general public.

 

Tony.....

This is going to go down hill fast.... All this drama will only hurt both. If your product makes a few hp more or less than Darren's ... It still does not mean much unless every member has the exact setup.

I just don't like where I see this going... I respect both of you guys ... But going down this road will gain nothing.

Making more or less will make neither of you a scammer...

If Darren agrees to get involve with this shoot out... Well that's up to him.... If he feels it will not solve anything.... Please let it go.

Mike

 

Yes, asserting the truth certainly has that potential. So in your opinion what should be done?

When people call me and ask if they can use just the plenum spacer on their REVUP, I have to tell them the truth. I have to tell them "No, it doesn't work".
I regularly lose sales because of this but I won't (can't) lie to make a sale. That just wouldn't be right.

This doesn't have to be anything other than a good dyno test. I'll also do everything I can to keep it clean and professional.

I respect you too and I'm open to your suggestions. Would you like to oversee a fair and friendly independent dyno test?

EDIT: Better yet, how about this...

You were the founder of the Recon Unit so you have indisputable credibility and trust. You would be a very credible arbitrator. How about if you test only the Motordyne plenum mods on a REVUP. No other manufacturers mods are needed. Just test the Motordyne parts. Put a Motordyne spacer on a REVUP and test it. Then put both the spacer and MREV on the REVUP and test it again. You choose a dyno shop and over see the test and publish the results here. I'll supply the parts of course. This way nobody needs to be offended and the results will be credible.

 

Gabe3d,

I'm still sending you the MREV2/spacer combo so you can move forward with your test with whoever wants to participate.

 

I would also recommend to let the outcome of the testing provide what value it will provide. I can understand Tony being upset about claims that he knows are not true (re: revups). Fine, it has been stated and will be demonstrated in the testing by the OP. If any manufacturer wants to continue to make such claims, I see no reason that any member or vendor shouldn't be allowed to call someone on it.

Eric has called Tony unprofessional. I don't think this is true and I don't think anyone else does either (outside AZ!). He is just competing, a philosophy I believe Darren believes in. (Darren should be invited once and not called out in multiple threads though. I see only this one thread and the one note in the RA thread calling his attention to this thread).

I don't think that Darren or Jorge needed to resort to juvenile name calling and slandering of Tony's products. That is unprofessional and unnecessary.

I know the history between PowerLab and Motordyne, so I know where the animosity stems from. I believe Darren to be an honest vendor, but sometimes his kill-the-competition-at-any-cost mentality comes through clearly in the aggressive manner in which he posts responses.

Nevertheless, keep it clean and above the belt gentlemen, please!

 

I don't know the history behind all this....but what I would do is invite Darren or his product.... If he says no.... I would just leave it. You and Darren have a good rep .... No need to risk it with something like this.

I am willing to show up for the shoot out to judge how things are done and take notes..... Always willing to help.

 

Thank you Mike. That sounds good.

 

i guess you dunno tony that well then or actually never seen how he handels his business decitions on the background....if he wants to continue down this path fo protectinc customer snad having recon unit bring whats best to the community...again ...hell look worst...
Also, sure he can count on me and Eric to be on intense side, because we have seen from his mouth(or his fingers) how he really carries his business, (so fony, you can keep counting on that... ill be there to call your BS when you START IT). Nobody from intense has started attacking you out of the blue, you were always that one that just had to bring it up... .

I am not sure what his point really is... i mean a spacer is just a thick piece that depending on the thickness to you X +- results...if he wants to add another high marked up part like the mrev he can do that. Just as he fixiates on getting 1, 5 more hp out of something that is still with in the temp correction error, i might as well take a dump and loose a bit of weigth and ill be faster(i doubt most butt dynos can tell a difference of 4whp or 4 more tq). I dont know why you still cant put a spacer on revup engines, what it doesnt fit?

AND LETS NOT LOOSE SIGHT OF THINGS HERE...motordyne is the one that started instigating with his posting spam on unrelated thread
Its not the first time hes done that now

 

Glad to hear that you are still in and thanks again for providing it for the test.

Agreed, everyone is grown up enough to make a judgment on the test results and I'll leave it up to that. I figured there are a lot of people interested in numbers and data, hence the reason I posted this.

It'll be interesting if the test were to be done on various cars with different levels of mods. It also would be very interesting to see a 1000whp+ G35 TT included in the mix

 

Jorge,

And that would be what?...

 

nice bait(lol), but thats between you and intense, not my place to say it, i just know what you said.... but i seem to recall a thread created by darren in which you subsequently decide to "advertise" on.... ...yeah real professional on your part just like how you tried to go after Z1 (just pure coincidence they have a plenum they sell too )
As darren said, nobody is loosing sleep or even nap time here over you(on the contrary you look desperate), actually nobody even thought about you until you started to bring your bs again.

 

you know most times i have your back...but, in this case, i think you are overly biased... the truth of the matter is, plenum spacers make zero power on REVUP motors...and that is what Tony is trying to get across. when you have a vendor selling a plenum spacer claiming it makes XXhp (if XX is anything but ZERO) then they are lying and selling a product under false pretenses...also know as false advertising.

now, put yourself in the position of...what if this was JT, Mr. A, Mr. S, or Mark Gust trying to sell a plenum spacer that they knew made absolutely no power on a specific motor to my350z.com members? would you rally the troops? of course you would! and rightly so...because you have moral fiber. and that, unless my perception is way off base here, is what Tony is trying to bring to light. you can call it bad blood, spin offs of previous run-ins, whatever you like...but, the fact remains that Darren *IS* trying to sell a product that cannot result in the gains stated.

 

No. What I'm telling you was clearly stated and articulated in my post that you quoted. So quit trying to put words in my mouth. I'm not saying that nothing can be learned from all those builds in the Shop Build section, but I also wouldn't recommend or support any of them being used for a plenum spacer shootout. BTW... More than 1% of the community has upgraded cams.

I'm done having this circular argument with you in your attempts to justify your personal agenda for using your own motor for this test.



Bottom line: The Cosworth plenum is for motors with cams and extended rev range, that thus far has been shown to be a better performer for FI applications than NA. Z1 already explained the Cosworth to you back in September, so I'm not going to continue this circular argument with you either.

https://my350z.com/forum/7792174-post51.html

 

You know that Jorge and I have no beef with you. If you knew the back story to the conflict between Tony and Intense (as Jorge and I both do, but are not at liberty to divulge details publicly without Intense's consent), you would see the irony in your post.


Knowing what I know, this thread and Tony's agenda smells like poo. Isn't it interesting that the OP never told Intense and has yet to indicate in this thread who/where he was originally intending to do this dyno shoot out??? (nor has anyone asked, given his geographic proximity to guess who)

 

Not sure what the hate on Tony is. AFAIK, he's always been upfront and backs up his claims. He's offered to participate in a dyno test of a 05+ Revup to put the issue to rest. What more do you want him to do? He's put up the offer. If makers think his products aren't up the task, they are happy to participate in that dyno shoot out. For FI guys, a few hp ain't jack but for us na guys, we scrape, crawl and climb for every hp we can get. Yes, Tony does consider a few hp either way important. I guess this is why he offers both the 5/16" and 1/2" spacers. I mean really. Offering a 3/8" spacer that falls smack in the middle of both is sorta obvious isn't it?

 

i know *some* of the backstory..but, i also know that i am unbiased in this matter and on the outside looking in... i can't say that i see any irony from what i do know...so, if you could, shoot me a PM (that stays betwixt you and i, of course) so that i can have all of the information...

that said, at the moment, with or without previous happenings, the truth is, plenum spacers (without a different lower plenum) do not add power to the REVUP motors... anyone who says otherwise - and sells a product based on these statements - is doing an injustice to the community...

edit - let me say that i cannot claim that this is what Intense or Darren has done. i don't know if they have made claims about the spacer on the REVUP. i am just stating that from what i am reading, this is the case.

 

Simple. Cease singling out Intense with the public callouts in an attempt to back Intense into a corner and discredit them.

 

BTW...
Mike! Thank you for being a voice a reason amidst the static of the peanut gallery and MD fanboys.

 

First and last warning: Keep this thread civil. Absolutely no name calling, belittling, disparaging, denouncing, etc. All of you who aren't directly involved (i.e., OP, MD, Intense, dyno operator, etc) have no reason to add your 2 cents in as it only seems to fuel the fire. If you cannot relay your thoughts in a mature fashion without going overboard with unnecessary remarks, I implore you to stay away from this thread.

I have great respect for both companies and I'd hate for this BS to continue on any longer