Plenum + Headers + Cats + Borla Dyno
10-30-2003, 04:59 PM
#64
Originally posted by dougrace zs
The Borla was left on the car because we did not see any difference in power when we added it by itself with the plenum and cats
The Borla was left on the car because we did not see any difference in power when we added it by itself with the plenum and cats
The dynos remain confusing to me. You have three dynos when all we really need is one dyno that compares the difference after the header is installed. Was my calculation correct?
And, $1,300 for 11 hp? Nismo cams are cheaper and produce 15 hp. Testpipes produce 12 hp for under $500. The Borla exhaust can produce as much horsepower or more for under $650. A cold air intake can produce half that amount of power for under $200.00. I'm sorry but that price is seriously uncompetitive when compared to other modifications.
I've heard nothing but good things about the Crawford Plenum. Personally, I'm waiting for the JWT Plenum. But, as far as headers are concerned, that seems like way too much money for me. I'll wait for the LBMS headers which I would guess would be about half the price.
I look forward the to zero gain Borla dyno and a dyno that just shows the difference in gain after header installation or confirmation that my math is correct.
10-30-2003, 06:44 PM
#65
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Originally posted by hfm
And, $1,300 for 11 hp? Nismo cams are cheaper and produce 15 hp. Testpipes produce 12 hp for under $500. The Borla exhaust can produce as much horsepower or more for under $650. A cold air intake can produce half that amount of power for under $200.00. I'm sorry but that price is seriously uncompetitive when compared to other modifications.
And, $1,300 for 11 hp? Nismo cams are cheaper and produce 15 hp. Testpipes produce 12 hp for under $500. The Borla exhaust can produce as much horsepower or more for under $650. A cold air intake can produce half that amount of power for under $200.00. I'm sorry but that price is seriously uncompetitive when compared to other modifications.
Please link me to those test pipes which give 12, I will order myself a set right now. FYI testpipes on NA cars are making sub 5.
Use the search feature, no one has reported signifigant gains w/the Borla exhaust.
Since when did a CAI gain you power? It lost power when we dyno'd it.
I'm sorry, but this price is incredible for the new powerband that is introduced to the car. It's AMAZINGLY competitive because the market has NOTHING else to begin delivering something as such.
Go get a set of NISMO headers, test pipes, nismo exhaust, and still run our plenum... the run it against Doug's Z.
Alll you're going to see is his personalized tag says ZISBACK.
Last edited by PhoenixINX; 10-30-2003 at 06:48 PM.
10-30-2003, 09:53 PM
#66
Originally posted by The Individual
Enjoy installing those cams... going to cost you almost half the cost of the cams themselves. Even then, you're going to bother with cams and NOT headers??? Ummmm, ok.
Please link me to those test pipes which give 12, I will order myself a set right now. FYI testpipes on NA cars are making sub 5.
Use the search feature, no one has reported signifigant gains w/the Borla exhaust.
Since when did a CAI gain you power? It lost power when we dyno'd it.
I'm sorry, but this price is incredible for the new powerband that is introduced to the car. It's AMAZINGLY competitive because the market has NOTHING else to begin delivering something as such.
Go get a set of NISMO headers, test pipes, nismo exhaust, and still run our plenum... the run it against Doug's Z.
Alll you're going to see is his personalized tag says ZISBACK.
Enjoy installing those cams... going to cost you almost half the cost of the cams themselves. Even then, you're going to bother with cams and NOT headers??? Ummmm, ok.
Please link me to those test pipes which give 12, I will order myself a set right now. FYI testpipes on NA cars are making sub 5.
Use the search feature, no one has reported signifigant gains w/the Borla exhaust.
Since when did a CAI gain you power? It lost power when we dyno'd it.
I'm sorry, but this price is incredible for the new powerband that is introduced to the car. It's AMAZINGLY competitive because the market has NOTHING else to begin delivering something as such.
Go get a set of NISMO headers, test pipes, nismo exhaust, and still run our plenum... the run it against Doug's Z.
Alll you're going to see is his personalized tag says ZISBACK.
The link is here: https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=47581
And, your FYI as far as I know, is wrong. They can make more than 5 hp.
As far as using the search feature, I've been doing it since September last year when the Z came out. I helped set up a group buy of 30 Borlas and I monitored the dynos for months. I know what the Borlas produce. Why don't you produce your zero gain chart and support Doug's statement that no one has produced any significant gains?
Since when have CAI produced gains? Are you serious?
No, the price is not AMAZING. It sucks.
As for getting a set of NISMO headers, test pipes, nismo exhaust, and still run our plenum... the[n] run it against Doug's Z, I don't understand what competition you're setting up. Regardless, I don't really care. All I care about is whether the horsepower and torque the Crawford headers claim to produce is worth $1,300 of my money.
Lastly, why do you always come across so argumentative when someone has criticism towards Crawford? What is your interest?
10-31-2003, 12:02 AM
#69
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Originally posted by hfm
Cams are a 10+ hour job. Headers are a 6+ hour job. We both know that both jobs are very labor intensive.
The link is here: https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=47581
And, your FYI as far as I know, is wrong. They can make more than 5 hp.
As far as using the search feature, I've been doing it since September last year when the Z came out. I helped set up a group buy of 30 Borlas and I monitored the dynos for months. I know what the Borlas produce. Why don't you produce your zero gain chart and support Doug's statement that no one has produced any significant gains?
Since when have CAI produced gains? Are you serious?
No, the price is not AMAZING. It sucks.
As for getting a set of NISMO headers, test pipes, nismo exhaust, and still run our plenum... the[n] run it against Doug's Z, I don't understand what competition you're setting up. Regardless, I don't really care. All I care about is whether the horsepower and torque the Crawford headers claim to produce is worth $1,300 of my money.
Lastly, why do you always come across so argumentative when someone has criticism towards Crawford? What is your interest?
Cams are a 10+ hour job. Headers are a 6+ hour job. We both know that both jobs are very labor intensive.
The link is here: https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=47581
And, your FYI as far as I know, is wrong. They can make more than 5 hp.
As far as using the search feature, I've been doing it since September last year when the Z came out. I helped set up a group buy of 30 Borlas and I monitored the dynos for months. I know what the Borlas produce. Why don't you produce your zero gain chart and support Doug's statement that no one has produced any significant gains?
Since when have CAI produced gains? Are you serious?
No, the price is not AMAZING. It sucks.
As for getting a set of NISMO headers, test pipes, nismo exhaust, and still run our plenum... the[n] run it against Doug's Z, I don't understand what competition you're setting up. Regardless, I don't really care. All I care about is whether the horsepower and torque the Crawford headers claim to produce is worth $1,300 of my money.
Lastly, why do you always come across so argumentative when someone has criticism towards Crawford? What is your interest?
DONT BUY THEM...
as for test pipes I havent seen any dynos that say any of them have made their claimed 10-15 hp(that isnt a company dyno) biggest gain I have seen on an NA car is with rod around 7... I havent seen any on an FI car yet though which I would speculate is more...
now on to borla I really dont think that doug means there was NO gain on the exhaust I think he is saying that there is a minimal gain and they just decided to leave it on... when I put mine on I didnt really feel a lot myself... I havent put mine on the dyno though but if it doesnt register on the butt dyno I doubt it will register much on the real one... and it is entirely possible for the borla to produce different power on each and every Z... so guess what if you have a borla and you got good numbers out of it you should have a better number then their dyno... anyways thats it
-non
10-31-2003, 04:43 AM
#70
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now on to borla I really dont think that doug means there was NO gain on the exhaust I think he is saying that there is a minimal gain and they just decided to leave it on.
10-31-2003, 06:27 AM
#71
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Originally posted by rodH
seems like I see about 7hp from the test pipes (even though some claim 10-15)
seems like I see about 7hp from the test pipes (even though some claim 10-15)
Though Mike from Chatty on the dyno, made 5-6 NA... then 10ish??? Hitting the 200shot.
10-31-2003, 06:33 AM
#72
Registered User
Originally posted by hfm
Since when have CAI produced gains? Are you serious?
No, the price is not AMAZING. It sucks.
Lastly, why do you always come across so argumentative when someone has criticism towards Crawford? What is your interest?
Since when have CAI produced gains? Are you serious?
No, the price is not AMAZING. It sucks.
Lastly, why do you always come across so argumentative when someone has criticism towards Crawford? What is your interest?
The price IS amazing... compare equi-lengths to ANYTHING else out there! A SINGLE equi-length on an S2000 is almost $1500!?!?!?! BMWs $3k!!!!!
I don't come across as argumentative... sincerely sorry if you feel this way. It is what I call firm. When I know something is right... I will stand by it. I'm **** about part I put on my car, if I knew X header is going to make more than Dougs... I will run X header. Simple as that. Which this ties back to the philosophy... Doug wouldn't MAKE a product if he didn't know it would be the "top dog". It's way business is run.
No need to
with me... just fly on out and lets have a drink! It'll give you a chance to drive a Crawford Z! 
10-31-2003, 06:52 AM
#73
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Hasn't anyone learned yet? Every aftermarket product that exists for the Z loses power except for the magical fairy sprinkled Crawford products. If you question their product at all they tell you to go buy a different product from someone else. They are such a great company with a complete a$$ promoting them. I don't care if "the individual" "gets his way." EVERY person in this world is an individual and should be allowed to choose what they want. Don't be overcome by the magic show and tomfoolery that is the Individual. He represents Crawford and he also disparages EVERY other product that exists. If you ask me, that is not the way to sell more product. That is how you alienate yourself from your customer base. Negativity breeds negative growth. But hey, what do I know? Good luck!
10-31-2003, 06:59 AM
#74
Registered User
Tater...
What's your address and email, I'm going to personally purchase you a plane ticket.
You and I need to spend some time together. You can crash in my office, and then we'll kick it for the night.
You're really clueless for how I think, and you've ALWAYS been negative to things here on the board. It's time we open your eyes... ON MY DIME!
How does that sound? Seriously... I'm honest as a heart attack, I will get you the first flight in here not this weekend, but the next.
What's your address and email, I'm going to personally purchase you a plane ticket.
You and I need to spend some time together. You can crash in my office, and then we'll kick it for the night.
You're really clueless for how I think, and you've ALWAYS been negative to things here on the board. It's time we open your eyes... ON MY DIME!
How does that sound? Seriously... I'm honest as a heart attack, I will get you the first flight in here not this weekend, but the next.
10-31-2003, 07:12 AM
#75
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Potato - I think it is quite interesting how you can bash what you have never seen or tried. At least Chris bashes stuff he has seen and run against. Sometimes he may come off brash, but if the shoe fits...
Also, Doug has a waiting list for just about everything he makes...can't imagine why. Haven't seen other MANUFACTURERS post any dyno numbers.
And just out of curiosuity, i noticed just about everything you have has "Nismo" on it ... why did you buy it ? Was it the dyno numbers they posted somewhere ? Or was it based on the track car of theirs you saw, or was it because you bought a performance car and wanted to keep your warranty intact ?
Also, Doug has a waiting list for just about everything he makes...can't imagine why. Haven't seen other MANUFACTURERS post any dyno numbers.
And just out of curiosuity, i noticed just about everything you have has "Nismo" on it ... why did you buy it ? Was it the dyno numbers they posted somewhere ? Or was it based on the track car of theirs you saw, or was it because you bought a performance car and wanted to keep your warranty intact ?
10-31-2003, 07:40 AM
#77
Registered User
Originally posted by shil01
HEY INDIVIDUAL! I THINK YOU GUYS SUCK AND I WOULD NEVER PUT A CRAWFORD PRODUCT ANYWHERE NEAR MY CAR!
can i get a plane ticket?
HEY INDIVIDUAL! I THINK YOU GUYS SUCK AND I WOULD NEVER PUT A CRAWFORD PRODUCT ANYWHERE NEAR MY CAR!
can i get a plane ticket?
I knew this would turn around and bite me in the azz...
10-31-2003, 07:54 AM
#78
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Similar dyno #'s
Hey shil01, your dyno numbers that you were upset about a few weeks ago look VERY similar to the one Crawford has posted here. The way your chart and the crawford charts are displayed is a little different but if you really strutinize the actaul HP and Torque curves they are very similar throughout the entire rev range. shil01 & crawford have virtually the same setup but shilo1 is running borla headers. It looks to me like the crawford headers are not making much more than the borlas. Again compare shil01's chart here with the one crawford has posted in this thread and you'll see what I mean. Even if borla does make slightly less power I'm happy with my ~$500 headers vs ~$1300 headers that provide only slightly more power. Maybe this is why they didn't dyno the headers alone.
Last edited by 350Z_Redline; 10-31-2003 at 08:00 AM.
10-31-2003, 07:58 AM
#79
Registered User
Use the search feature, no one has reported signifigant gains w/the Borla exhaust.
I'm pretty sure the average on the Borla is 10rwhp and SportZ tested several with Borla being one of the top 2, I believe, for power gains.
I'll wait until someone independent posts numbers on the Crawford Headers. All I can say is that their Hi-Flow cats made a difference as did their plenum.
As for their headers, they may work, but that piping configuration looks like spaghetti! I'd hate to have to work that into my engine bay or show it off. But if the gains actually are there, I can see a lot of people getting them strictly for the power benefits.
10-31-2003, 08:03 AM
#80
Registered User
Re: Similar dyno #'s
Originally posted by 350Z_Redline
Hey shil01, your dyno numbers that you were upset about a few weeks ago look VERY similar to the one Crawford has posted here. The way your chart and the crawford charts are displayed is a little different but if you really strutinize the actaul HP and Torque curves they are very similar throughout the entire rev range. shil01 & crawford have virtually the same setup but shilo1 is running borla headers. It looks to me like the crawford headers are not making much more than the borlas. Again compare shil01's chart here with the one crawford has posted in this thread and you'll see what I mean. Even if borla does make slightly less power I'm happy with my ~$500 headers vs ~$1300 headers that provide only slightly more power. Maybe this is why they didn't dyno the headers alone.
Hey shil01, your dyno numbers that you were upset about a few weeks ago look VERY similar to the one Crawford has posted here. The way your chart and the crawford charts are displayed is a little different but if you really strutinize the actaul HP and Torque curves they are very similar throughout the entire rev range. shil01 & crawford have virtually the same setup but shilo1 is running borla headers. It looks to me like the crawford headers are not making much more than the borlas. Again compare shil01's chart here with the one crawford has posted in this thread and you'll see what I mean. Even if borla does make slightly less power I'm happy with my ~$500 headers vs ~$1300 headers that provide only slightly more power. Maybe this is why they didn't dyno the headers alone.
I don't see that dyno making anywhere near the power...
Nice torque curve, but the power isn't there neither high nor low... hp nor torque.
Especially if he was to run cams, those things are going to choke badly.
