370Z long tube headers ---> 350Z HR?
AadosX, the problem is that almost nobody has done headers on an HR. A few have done shorties, but there certainly aren't many examples of HR Z's with longtubes, for two reasons:
1) Nobody makes longtubes for the HR
2) There aren't many HR's on the road, and an even smaller number that have done headers
The ONLY dyno I've been able to find of an HR with longtubes was a G35 running Megans, which certainly shouldn't be used as a point of reference for a top-notch header...
Also, just because the stock HR manifolds/headers are equal-lengthish, and flow better than the DE's, doesn't mean there is no room for improvement. Equal length or not is only one factor, and equal length doesn't necessarily mean better.
I've always been under the impression longer primaries benefit most cars. Manufacturers tend to shorten the stock manifolds/headers for emissions reasons -- the closer to the engine they can get the cats, the better they can do their job. Then there's the whole tuning aspect, resonance, making sure the pulses merge in a desired fashion, etc.
There's room to think that there could be power there -- the SGMs gained fantastic results on a DE, and the HR is in many respects very similar to the VQ37VHR, which also shows great gains from headers.
Bottom line is, proper longtubes on an HR is relatively uncharted territory. I don't see how one can claim they are not worth it when it hasn't been done yet...
1) Nobody makes longtubes for the HR
2) There aren't many HR's on the road, and an even smaller number that have done headers
The ONLY dyno I've been able to find of an HR with longtubes was a G35 running Megans, which certainly shouldn't be used as a point of reference for a top-notch header...
Also, just because the stock HR manifolds/headers are equal-lengthish, and flow better than the DE's, doesn't mean there is no room for improvement. Equal length or not is only one factor, and equal length doesn't necessarily mean better.
I've always been under the impression longer primaries benefit most cars. Manufacturers tend to shorten the stock manifolds/headers for emissions reasons -- the closer to the engine they can get the cats, the better they can do their job. Then there's the whole tuning aspect, resonance, making sure the pulses merge in a desired fashion, etc.
There's room to think that there could be power there -- the SGMs gained fantastic results on a DE, and the HR is in many respects very similar to the VQ37VHR, which also shows great gains from headers.
Bottom line is, proper longtubes on an HR is relatively uncharted territory. I don't see how one can claim they are not worth it when it hasn't been done yet...
Last edited by doshoru; May 18, 2011 at 01:06 PM.
equal length is another one of those terms...like long tube, where people automatically assume it's better than unequal length
Headers move air - air being pumped from an engine works in pulses. As you change the diameter of the pipes carrying that air, their length, diameter may need to also change to maximize the efficiency of the pulses. As those aspects change, the collector design may also likely need to change. That's partially why there are so many different collectors out there. Sometimes differences that appear tiny can have huge net effects. Headers are equal parts math and trial and error to generate a design that is favorable. That design is going to be based around a certain set of circumstances (intake manifold volume, compression, head cc, cam lift/duration and lobe, etc). As those cirumstances change, the header may need to change. Sometimes that change may only be minor, sometimes it can be major. Of course the great equalizer is packaging.....you can't fit a square peg into a round hole, so any design has to take the confines of it's environment into effect
Equal length is not necessarily better or worse than unequal - it's situationally dependant. Just like long tube isn't automatically better than short tube....hell sometimes long tubes aren't even any longer than short tubes + test pipes (and sometimes can be even shorter). These are for all intents and purposes, marketing or identifying terms - nothing more, nothing less.
To determine the net worth of a proper header on an HR would require time and resources. Given the limited # of NA HR's out there, and the time and cost involved in designing and manufacturing a proper header for any car, I would not expect any results to come to fruition anytime soon unfortunately.
Headers move air - air being pumped from an engine works in pulses. As you change the diameter of the pipes carrying that air, their length, diameter may need to also change to maximize the efficiency of the pulses. As those aspects change, the collector design may also likely need to change. That's partially why there are so many different collectors out there. Sometimes differences that appear tiny can have huge net effects. Headers are equal parts math and trial and error to generate a design that is favorable. That design is going to be based around a certain set of circumstances (intake manifold volume, compression, head cc, cam lift/duration and lobe, etc). As those cirumstances change, the header may need to change. Sometimes that change may only be minor, sometimes it can be major. Of course the great equalizer is packaging.....you can't fit a square peg into a round hole, so any design has to take the confines of it's environment into effect
Equal length is not necessarily better or worse than unequal - it's situationally dependant. Just like long tube isn't automatically better than short tube....hell sometimes long tubes aren't even any longer than short tubes + test pipes (and sometimes can be even shorter). These are for all intents and purposes, marketing or identifying terms - nothing more, nothing less.
To determine the net worth of a proper header on an HR would require time and resources. Given the limited # of NA HR's out there, and the time and cost involved in designing and manufacturing a proper header for any car, I would not expect any results to come to fruition anytime soon unfortunately.
Last edited by Z1 Performance; May 18, 2011 at 01:48 PM.
I think Adam and I are saying the same thing. I'd just like to emphasize the fact that nobody knows how the HR would respond to any "long tube" headers, much less these.
Adam, normally when I think "long tube" and/or "race header", I think of an extended header that mates directly to the midpipe(s)/exhaust -- eliminating the space where cats/test pipes would be. While I hear your point about marketing terminology, I do think that stock heads are almost always too short in a compromise for better emissions. Of course there are exceptions, as always
Adam, normally when I think "long tube" and/or "race header", I think of an extended header that mates directly to the midpipe(s)/exhaust -- eliminating the space where cats/test pipes would be. While I hear your point about marketing terminology, I do think that stock heads are almost always too short in a compromise for better emissions. Of course there are exceptions, as always
How much are they>? I haven't even looked. I have to remove my headers to wrap my Stillens. I could always purchase another set, wrap and install them. ***** part is I like to port match everything. I port all my race skis and what I can't do, I have my machinist do. I am **** like that. 
AadosX, the problem is that almost nobody has done headers on an HR. A few have done shorties, but there certainly aren't many examples of HR Z's with longtubes, for two reasons:
1) Nobody makes longtubes for the HR
2) There aren't many HR's on the road, and an even smaller number that have done headers
The ONLY dyno I've been able to find of an HR with longtubes was a G35 running Megans, which certainly shouldn't be used as a point of reference for a top-notch header...
Also, just because the stock HR manifolds/headers are equal-lengthish, and flow better than the DE's, doesn't mean there is no room for improvement. Equal length or not is only one factor, and equal length doesn't necessarily mean better.
I've always been under the impression longer primaries benefit most cars. Manufacturers tend to shorten the stock manifolds/headers for emissions reasons -- the closer to the engine they can get the cats, the better they can do their job. Then there's the whole tuning aspect, resonance, making sure the pulses merge in a desired fashion, etc.
There's room to think that there could be power there -- the SGMs gained fantastic results on a DE, and the HR is in many respects very similar to the VQ37VHR, which also shows great gains from headers.
Bottom line is, proper longtubes on an HR is relatively uncharted territory. I don't see how one can claim they are not worth it when it hasn't been done yet...
1) Nobody makes longtubes for the HR
2) There aren't many HR's on the road, and an even smaller number that have done headers
The ONLY dyno I've been able to find of an HR with longtubes was a G35 running Megans, which certainly shouldn't be used as a point of reference for a top-notch header...
Also, just because the stock HR manifolds/headers are equal-lengthish, and flow better than the DE's, doesn't mean there is no room for improvement. Equal length or not is only one factor, and equal length doesn't necessarily mean better.
I've always been under the impression longer primaries benefit most cars. Manufacturers tend to shorten the stock manifolds/headers for emissions reasons -- the closer to the engine they can get the cats, the better they can do their job. Then there's the whole tuning aspect, resonance, making sure the pulses merge in a desired fashion, etc.
There's room to think that there could be power there -- the SGMs gained fantastic results on a DE, and the HR is in many respects very similar to the VQ37VHR, which also shows great gains from headers.
Bottom line is, proper longtubes on an HR is relatively uncharted territory. I don't see how one can claim they are not worth it when it hasn't been done yet...
You say the VQ37VHR shows great gains from headers. Ok.. here is a dyno from Fast Intentions themselves.. showing gains of 8 whp and 8 tq over HIGH FLOW CATS. Wonder why they didn't post up a dyno of stock headers + TP vs LTH? I'll tell you why.. because they would probably dyno the same. In nearly every case I've seen on VQ35HR's and VQ37VHR's, test pipes dyno anywhere from 5-15 whp more than HFC's. How would they sell their newly developed LTH?!
Yes yes, ok, so maybe they give some tiny advantage that I'm not noting. My point is that they are far from worth the time and money IMO. Perhaps if you are doing an N/A build for over $10,000 and want every possible pony there is, then they are worth it. But for the average guy here doing intake, HFC/TP, exhaust and a tune, headers are comparatively a rip-off.
equal length is another one of those terms...like long tube, where people automatically assume it's better than unequal length
Headers move air - air being pumped from an engine works in pulses. As you change the diameter of the pipes carrying that air, their length, diameter may need to also change to maximize the efficiency of the pulses. As those aspects change, the collector design may also likely need to change. That's partially why there are so many different collectors out there. Sometimes differences that appear tiny can have huge net effects. Headers are equal parts math and trial and error to generate a design that is favorable. That design is going to be based around a certain set of circumstances (intake manifold volume, compression, head cc, cam lift/duration and lobe, etc). As those cirumstances change, the header may need to change. Sometimes that change may only be minor, sometimes it can be major. Of course the great equalizer is packaging.....you can't fit a square peg into a round hole, so any design has to take the confines of it's environment into effect
Equal length is not necessarily better or worse than unequal - it's situationally dependant. Just like long tube isn't automatically better than short tube....hell sometimes long tubes aren't even any longer than short tubes + test pipes (and sometimes can be even shorter). These are for all intents and purposes, marketing or identifying terms - nothing more, nothing less.
To determine the net worth of a proper header on an HR would require time and resources. Given the limited # of NA HR's out there, and the time and cost involved in designing and manufacturing a proper header for any car, I would not expect any results to come to fruition anytime soon unfortunately.
Headers move air - air being pumped from an engine works in pulses. As you change the diameter of the pipes carrying that air, their length, diameter may need to also change to maximize the efficiency of the pulses. As those aspects change, the collector design may also likely need to change. That's partially why there are so many different collectors out there. Sometimes differences that appear tiny can have huge net effects. Headers are equal parts math and trial and error to generate a design that is favorable. That design is going to be based around a certain set of circumstances (intake manifold volume, compression, head cc, cam lift/duration and lobe, etc). As those cirumstances change, the header may need to change. Sometimes that change may only be minor, sometimes it can be major. Of course the great equalizer is packaging.....you can't fit a square peg into a round hole, so any design has to take the confines of it's environment into effect
Equal length is not necessarily better or worse than unequal - it's situationally dependant. Just like long tube isn't automatically better than short tube....hell sometimes long tubes aren't even any longer than short tubes + test pipes (and sometimes can be even shorter). These are for all intents and purposes, marketing or identifying terms - nothing more, nothing less.
To determine the net worth of a proper header on an HR would require time and resources. Given the limited # of NA HR's out there, and the time and cost involved in designing and manufacturing a proper header for any car, I would not expect any results to come to fruition anytime soon unfortunately.
I too would love to see a dyno of their LTH versus both a stock car and a car that has just test pipes installed.
With all the effort involved in installing headers, it just doesn't seem worth it to me.
With all the effort involved in installing headers, it just doesn't seem worth it to me.
Again, this is all speculation until somebody actually does it on an HR...
As far as whether it is "worth it" -- not only is that subjective, but until somebody does it, how do you know?
As far as whether it is "worth it" -- not only is that subjective, but until somebody does it, how do you know?
I got my answer from Tony today, heres what he said:
They bolt up just fine. The starting and ending points line up perfectly as
well. It even clears the steering shaft with zero issues.
The only issue I ran into was on the driver side one of the headers tubes
touched the bottom of the floor board. This area was the same area as to
where the stock cat sat. All I did was lightly tap in the floor board with
a rubber mallet. It is an outer shell so it is not something you would even
notice on the inside of the car.
There were zero fitment issues on the passenger side. The last thing was my
customer got a CEL light. This made no sense because we do not get one on
the 370Z or the G37. One of his O2 sensors had to of been bad.
So that should explain it all for you.
I will await your response...
Thank you,
Tony Meyerson
Vice President
Fast Intentions Inc.
8725 Canby Ave.
Northridge, Ca. 91325
T: (818) 882-2788
F: (818) 882-2834
www.fastintentions.com
They bolt up just fine. The starting and ending points line up perfectly as
well. It even clears the steering shaft with zero issues.
The only issue I ran into was on the driver side one of the headers tubes
touched the bottom of the floor board. This area was the same area as to
where the stock cat sat. All I did was lightly tap in the floor board with
a rubber mallet. It is an outer shell so it is not something you would even
notice on the inside of the car.
There were zero fitment issues on the passenger side. The last thing was my
customer got a CEL light. This made no sense because we do not get one on
the 370Z or the G37. One of his O2 sensors had to of been bad.
So that should explain it all for you.
I will await your response...
Thank you,
Tony Meyerson
Vice President
Fast Intentions Inc.
8725 Canby Ave.
Northridge, Ca. 91325
T: (818) 882-2788
F: (818) 882-2834
www.fastintentions.com
My 2 month-old droid got stolen on Thursday night. And there's been a series of break-ins in my neighborhood. So....I'm looking at 5-600 to replace the phone, and another several hundred in double-keyed locks/deadbolts (just got back from home depot!), shatter-proof security film for the windows, and motion-activated floodlights. Headers are going to have to wait for a bit for me 
Last edited by doshoru; May 21, 2011 at 03:40 PM.
Yeah, really. Also occurring this month, I had the cops show up at 4am, due to 911 calls stating that my house and my neighbors' was in danger. Second time, the SWAT team showed up, full body armor, M16's with laser sights....scary. I went to stay with my parents for a couple of weeks o_O;;
