PPE Longtube Headers
09-20-2012, 07:20 PM
#623
SGs had separate primaries welded all the way around their individual flanges on the inside and out, iirc. They had slip fit joints at the collector. I had a primary that was a tad shorter than the others, but that could've been install. Those headers look good. Be happy.
Less whining, more dynos, please.
Less whining, more dynos, please.
09-21-2012, 05:21 AM
#625
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Called fedex they assured me it was delivered and signed for. After 15 minutes or so of death threats to the customer service agent I hear a knock at my door. 10 packages delivered to a house over a mile away ! Thank god the guy was like 1000 and straight up. He was like come get your F'n boxes off my porch !The extensions shipped separate and stickers we are working on promise !
09-21-2012, 05:53 AM
#626
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SGs had separate primaries welded all the way around their individual flanges on the inside and out, iirc. They had slip fit joints at the collector. I had a primary that was a tad shorter than the others, but that could've been install. Those headers look good. Be happy.
Less whining, more dynos, please.
Less whining, more dynos, please.
09-21-2012, 06:41 AM
#627
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A slip fit collector is when the primaries actually slip into the collector.
The same collector that PPE,SG Etc used in most performance oriented header designs 100% of all motorcycles use this design...
The same collector that PPE,SG Etc used in most performance oriented header designs 100% of all motorcycles use this design...
09-21-2012, 12:55 PM
#629
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Come on hardware kits, i want to install
09-21-2012, 09:05 PM
#631
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well i got the passenger side installed today after work in our shop where they work on the 18 wheelers. im using a pit with the car parked over it. im gonna do the drivers side tomorrow and hopefully go drive around and start retuning the maf table. the bolts that come with the install kit are pretty good. im glad they chose those. two good things about them: the small head makes it easy to get the speed wrenches on (a lifesaver on the bottom back bolt on either head - its a super biatch). also, the thread starts at the very end so it makes it damn near impossible to crossthread one. the only drawback is that they are really hard to get started on some holes. i highly suggest you guys coat the ends of the bolts in antiseize first and run them into the holes first to get the threads lubed up before you stick the header in there. also, if you remove that bracket that holds the wiring harnesses thats attached to the back of the alternator you will be doing yourself a favor. its in the way of the bottom front bolt like a mfer. you can take off the two 8mm bolts that hold it on and just move it out of the way if you want. i did 5/6 bolts on the passenger side from the top with the coolant tube out. it seems to be the easiest way with what im working with. ill give more updates tomorrow after we do the drivers side. so far, im still really happy with them. anyone else put theirs on yet?
09-22-2012, 11:47 PM
#632
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i got my drivers side header on today. i think the o2 extensions are really geared for a nonrev car with a pair of 4 wire o2 sensors per bank. i have a revup so i have 5 wire widebands in the front o2 sensors. thats no big deal i just ran an extra wire through the harness. the wires are plated with some weird **** too. you cant really solder to them. the copper wires in the extensions will take the solder and flux, but the plated wires that are in the o2 sensor harness wont. so i used the crimps in the o2 sensor extension. this worked fine as far as im concerned. we ran everything cleanly down to the headers. that part went relatively smoothly. the xyz pipe on the tdx2 doesnt seem to be in the same plane of alignment as the collector flanges on the headers. when we put them on with the provided gaskets both collectors leaked pretty bad. we have this aerospace carbon graphite material with an aluminum sheet in between that we use for gaskets on my buddy's turbo seadoo. its about an eighth inch thick. we made some extra gaskets and sandwiched them in there with the dei ones. derek (denchan) said he had the same problem and the shop fixed it by doing something similar and using copper exhaust gasket maker (high temp rtv type stuff). the car is loud as **** now, which is cool because it sounds good, so long as its revving up. on decel it makes this horrible metallic buzzing sound as it sucks air back into the exhaust. why it does this i dont know. my buddy that was helping me is a bike guy and said it sounded like a 600cc exhaust when it popped and buzzed on the way back down. from the outside you cant really hear that, but on the inside it reminds me of driving a honda when i hear that buzz. when we were trying to bolt the the xyz pipe to the headers we heard this loud pop and i can only assume it was the inside of the flex joint breaking. i think the sound im hearing is vibrating metal, and perhaps might be this. im gonna call tony on monday and see what he thinks. i expect poping and burbling. thats fine. some cars just do that. i dont however expect a metallic noise to accompany it. so things for you other guys that are gonna install these need to think about. if u r revup, your extensions will need an extra wire. the flanges dont really line up well so you might consider stacking a few gaskets in there. i dont think two bolts is enough for this. my chevy and ford cars always had three bolts here, 2.5" or 3" collectors, unless they were shorties on a 302 ford. then there is the crazy **** my tune is doing now. for some reason my osiris is outputting the voltages from these sensors and not the afr. i pulled a plug. its running super lean. afr correction was jumping around between 120 and 100 at idle trying to get it right. ill try to get that figured out tonight or tomorrow and hopefully retune my maf table so i can drive the car home. i dont feel comfortable driving it when i cant see the ratio and the plug looks like that. more updates to come... has anyone else installed or started installing them?
09-23-2012, 08:32 AM
#633
^- Wow. One of the reason's I decided to back out of purchasing the hardware kit, I figured OEM might be better. We'll see...
As for the flange issue, I sure hope I don't break my XYZ pipe. When I bought my ART pipes used, they didn't want to line up with my XYZ-pipe that I bought new and installed it to my OEM cats prior without any fitment issues. I just had to slowly torque each flange in evenly to get it to seal with the ART pipes. My theory is the XYZ-pipe is well broken in and warped into shape with the prior setups. I think everyone will have similar issues but I could be wrong?
What header/cat-pipe were you running before? I know going from ART to long tubes will definitely do some funky things if not retuned. I would flash back to stock rom until it's retuned.
Did you wrap your headers by chance?
As for the flange issue, I sure hope I don't break my XYZ pipe. When I bought my ART pipes used, they didn't want to line up with my XYZ-pipe that I bought new and installed it to my OEM cats prior without any fitment issues. I just had to slowly torque each flange in evenly to get it to seal with the ART pipes. My theory is the XYZ-pipe is well broken in and warped into shape with the prior setups. I think everyone will have similar issues but I could be wrong?
What header/cat-pipe were you running before? I know going from ART to long tubes will definitely do some funky things if not retuned. I would flash back to stock rom until it's retuned.
Did you wrap your headers by chance?
Last edited by Voboy; 09-23-2012 at 08:35 AM.
09-23-2012, 10:52 AM
#634
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no i didnt wrap my headers. since they arent made of stainless im not risking it. im thinking of wrapping the tdx2 now to help with the exhaust sound though. id say my impressions of the sound are not very good. the tdx2 alone, on sound quality is a 10/10. best sounding non v8 car ive ever owned. this was with stock cats and manifolds. going to the headers, i really dont like the sound at all. im afraid to get on it because its very, very raspy, inside the car. now outside the car it sounds totally different, which is weird to me. it doesnt sound bad outside the car. i had my buddy drive it around and i listened to it. im thinking about calling motordyne for some hfc midpipe sections now. i think that would get the sound right and not take away too much from the gains from the headers. all my i4 and v8 cars always had some rasp when getting rid of the cats, so this is nothing new. hell my honda used to have rasp with a stock cat, with header and exhaust, so im not too surprised here. i realized this might be the case going into this purchase, but also knew there were options available if i did run into this problem. so, im going to explore those now. maybe some of you guys with single exhausts would have a different opinion. i bought these because i was looking for an n/a performance gain, which i believe ill attain when i get it tuned right. i havent really gotten on it because i know its running a little lean. im gonna try to work on that today. if i can get cipher/osiris to show my afr in ratio again and not voltage. it just started doing that all of a sudden and i cant get it back. im uninstalling and reinstalling now.
Last edited by juicinjake; 09-23-2012 at 11:03 AM.
09-23-2012, 11:05 AM
#635
no i didnt wrap my headers. since they arent made of stainless im not risking it. im thinking of wrapping the tdx2 now to help with the exhaust sound though. id say my impressions of the sound are not very good. the tdx2 alone, on sound quality is a 10/10. best sounding non v8 car ive ever owned. this was with stock cats and manifolds. going to the headers, i really dont like the sound at all. im afraid to get on it because its very, very raspy, inside the car. now outside the car it sounds totally differently.which is weird to me. it doesnt sound bad outside the car. i had my buddy drive it around and i listened to it. im thinking about calling motordyne for some hfc midpipe sections now. i think that would get the sound right and not take away too much from the gains from the headers. i havent really gotten on it because i know its running a little lean. im gonna try to work on that today. if i can get cipher/osiris to show my afr in ratio again and not voltage. it just started doing that all of a sudden and i cant get it back. im uninstalling and reinstalling now.
Oh wow, going from stock cats... Yeah its gonna be a dramatic change. The cats are very restrictive. From stock cats to ART pipes was a dramatic decibel change, and they're actually quieter than test pipes. Oh boy, wonder how loud my car will be after my install.
Without a doubt you'll be running very lean after deleting the cats.
09-23-2012, 02:37 PM
#636
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ive been datalogging all day... ive improved it a little bit. it sounds pretty awesome up top (4000-7000). very racy. its just that low end rasp that im not liking very much. i think some 3" hfc's in the straights and some exhaust wrap will fix it... i hope. the car is definitely faster past 4000... i havent got on it much below that because of the rasp. i cant wait to get tuned...
09-23-2012, 09:05 PM
#637
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its definitely faster from 4000-7000. im starting to learn how to drive it now to avoid the raspy sound i dont like. no more riding out first gear from the lights, until i get the hfc rear secions. i had my friend listen to it while i drove around. he said he only heard the rasp when i started it in the garage and revved it. driving around it sounds awesome from outside according to him. after listening to some vids, i think my car sounds like a single exhaust vq with test pipes. its taking some getting used to, but i think ill be completely happy when i get the hfc's on there and wrap the exhaust. im not wrapping the headers because they arent stainless, but i think that will be enough. ill keep you guys posted. performance wise though, i have to say im pretty happy now that i have the afr good enough and i can get on it.
09-24-2012, 01:56 PM
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yea i thought about that too... i wasnt able to get tony or anyone else at md on the phone today. im kinda learning to live with/like it. its racey. the car is faster as low as 3000. much easier to loose traction there than before!