PPE Longtube Headers
02-23-2013, 08:04 PM
#1021
I just did a quick comparison of your latest graph (w/ PPE LT's) vs your previous 322rwhp graph (w/ the stillen shorties and ART pipes). The weather conditions actually seemed to favor the PPE LT dyno and I also noticed the long tubes seem to give you a slightly fatter torque curve in the mid RPM's (likely around where the RPM's fall into after a shift), so the car probably wouldn't feel much slower at all...especially since you tend to feel the Tq difference more (especially after shifting) in the lower rpms than up top. I'd still throw a fatter exhaust on it...but thats just me 
I might end up trying the SFR equal lengths (in a quest for ultimate power 6k rpm +) on my HR in a couple of months. I would then mate that up to a pretty trick 3.5" single, which would then branch out with a 1-3 collector into 2 2.5" Burns mufflers (to at least have some type of noise reduction) with the 3rd 2.5" pipe not having any muffler whatsoever. These 3 pipes would then exit in a triangle shape "^" that would be cut into the bumper just below the license plate enclosure...just below the floor pan. It would be fairly costly, but at the same time unique and done right the first time I feel/hope lol.
It probably sounds like I'm dreaming some type of fairytale...but if you know me, I'm certainy not haha!
I might end up trying the SFR equal lengths (in a quest for ultimate power 6k rpm +) on my HR in a couple of months. I would then mate that up to a pretty trick 3.5" single, which would then branch out with a 1-3 collector into 2 2.5" Burns mufflers (to at least have some type of noise reduction) with the 3rd 2.5" pipe not having any muffler whatsoever. These 3 pipes would then exit in a triangle shape "^" that would be cut into the bumper just below the license plate enclosure...just below the floor pan. It would be fairly costly, but at the same time unique and done right the first time I feel/hope lol.
It probably sounds like I'm dreaming some type of fairytale...but if you know me, I'm certainy not haha!
02-23-2013, 08:04 PM
#1022
Well the car don't feel sluggish at all still breaks them tires loose in 3rd the RevShift Motor Mounts are also freaking awesome. I do not know what the duty Cycle for my 725cc injectors are but don't think it's over 80% and no less than 65%. I thought the Flat lined AFR was good?¿ 
Very Satisfied though.
Very Satisfied though.
if you actually lost that much power you'd feel it. i have the exact same exhaust setup and it was definitely faster with the ppe's. i highly doubt its the tdx2... you really should have done a same day before and after if you wanted to know if you gained or not. id do a compression test if i lost that much. i cant see whats going on with your afr down below but it looks flat. is it the same value that it was before when u made 322rwhp? whats your injector duty cycle look like?
02-23-2013, 08:48 PM
#1025
if you actually lost that much power you'd feel it. i have the exact same exhaust setup and it was definitely faster with the ppe's. i highly doubt its the tdx2... you really should have done a same day before and after if you wanted to know if you gained or not. id do a compression test if i lost that much. i cant see whats going on with your afr down below but it looks flat. is it the same value that it was before when u made 322rwhp? whats your injector duty cycle look like?
Edit: I definitely agree he/they should have done a baseline before doing the header swap though. Could be poorer quality fuel causing the dissapointing results, etc.
I'm already aware....with 2 Burns mufflers (which aren't nearly as noisy as most Vibrants mufflers) and a resonator after the Y merge, I should be able to achieve a sound level I could deal with for a weekend warrior/track car. Although I'd also consider a pair of Magnaflow straight thru mufflers (I always thought their mufflers sound fairly decent on the VQ)...but first I want to find out what muffler and piping Doran are using on their 370Z GS race car (which is basically a HR engine)...because damn thing is eargasmic to me haha! It looks like a Burn's muffler to me, but sounds pretty damn high pitched compared to the deeper sound that is often a trait of the Burns mufflers I've heard before. I need to ask Dwnshift on the 370z forums sometime soon to get an answer.
Here's a clip of their race car on the dyno (sorry I'm on my iPhone and am unsure how to embed the clip on this particular forum :/ )
Last edited by 03Screamer; 02-23-2013 at 09:10 PM.
02-24-2013, 11:59 AM
#1027
If you indeed did lose power, could be anything from not properly taking advantage of the cam phasing to maybe your cams dont work well with the PPE's.
I highly doubt the Motordyne is causing any problems.
With everything you put into the car I would try and figure it out though.
I highly doubt the Motordyne is causing any problems.
With everything you put into the car I would try and figure it out though.
02-24-2013, 09:20 PM
#1029
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You're comparing apples and oranges though. Your car had stock manifolds and cats (on a Rev Up) prior to installing the PPE LT's. Totally different scenario.
Edit: I definitely agree he/they should have done a baseline before doing the header swap though. Could be poorer quality fuel causing the dissapointing results, etc.
Edit: I definitely agree he/they should have done a baseline before doing the header swap though. Could be poorer quality fuel causing the dissapointing results, etc.
02-24-2013, 09:47 PM
#1030
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If you indeed did lose power, could be anything from not properly taking advantage of the cam phasing to maybe your cams dont work well with the PPE's.
I highly doubt the Motordyne is causing any problems.
With everything you put into the car I would try and figure it out though.
I highly doubt the Motordyne is causing any problems.
With everything you put into the car I would try and figure it out though.
02-25-2013, 05:23 PM
#1033
Funny, mine are wrapped as well. Mine are installed, need more time to drive it and get it tuned.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/56018946@N08/8509178934/" title="photo by s.daguio1, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8229/8509178934_55df1c39f2_c.jpg" width="600" height="800" alt="photo"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/56018946@N08/8509178934/" title="photo by s.daguio1, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8229/8509178934_55df1c39f2_c.jpg" width="600" height="800" alt="photo"></a>
Last edited by Vq.turbo.DremZ; 02-25-2013 at 05:24 PM.
02-27-2013, 06:39 PM
#1034
If you indeed did lose power, could be anything from not properly taking advantage of the cam phasing to maybe your cams dont work well with the PPE's.
I highly doubt the Motordyne is causing any problems.
With everything you put into the car I would try and figure it out though.
I highly doubt the Motordyne is causing any problems.
With everything you put into the car I would try and figure it out though.
Even a generic single 3" Y-back exhaust is nowhere near being a bottleneck in built NA 4.2L engines with much more NA power.
If this car lost power, something else is causing it.
03-04-2013, 11:04 PM
#1036
If it means anything to you, my IAT are higher during idle. You already know the cramped space around the engine bay, it couldn't hurt either way.
Some Install notes.
Driver Side: Like others have said already the steering shaft has to come out. Pretty simple with two bolts. I also removed the A/C lines to the compressor (Mine had a leak anyway, HP hard line). Majority of the bolts can be done on the topside except the rear cylinder bottom bolt. Used a racket closed end wrench. Otherwise pretty straight forward.
[Other things in the way: Obviously intake and a electrical ground)
Passenger Side: Hard coolant line. was relatively straight forward. The rear bolt was difficult to get to for me. ( could be reached with a long extension and a swivel, or from the bottom with a wrench.) 5/6 bolts can be done from the top, the rear lower was difficult to get to again. Had several tries before getting in, be extremely patient. And as someone mentioned already theres two brackets in the way. One on the back of the alternator and one holding a sensor connection. It makes direct contact with the header primary.
Also as others have mentioned on my 06, it has five wires for the stock sensors. It also helps to test the wires prior to install as there are two black wires in their loom. You'll save time during install day. Also the passenger side 02 wires are significantly closer to the headers than the drivers side. Heat shield are really useful.
Random notes: seems almost impossible to use stock studs, But i never tried it but can only assume. Also it helps to have an extra set of hands to help to line up the flanges.
Sound: I run a full TI JIC resonated and Y. I actually have no drone at all but I do have rasp between 3000-3500. and during various spots on decel.
Still tuning but otherwise its feeling strong, will report later after tune at RT
Some Install notes.
Driver Side: Like others have said already the steering shaft has to come out. Pretty simple with two bolts. I also removed the A/C lines to the compressor (Mine had a leak anyway, HP hard line). Majority of the bolts can be done on the topside except the rear cylinder bottom bolt. Used a racket closed end wrench. Otherwise pretty straight forward.
[Other things in the way: Obviously intake and a electrical ground)
Passenger Side: Hard coolant line. was relatively straight forward. The rear bolt was difficult to get to for me. ( could be reached with a long extension and a swivel, or from the bottom with a wrench.) 5/6 bolts can be done from the top, the rear lower was difficult to get to again. Had several tries before getting in, be extremely patient. And as someone mentioned already theres two brackets in the way. One on the back of the alternator and one holding a sensor connection. It makes direct contact with the header primary.
Also as others have mentioned on my 06, it has five wires for the stock sensors. It also helps to test the wires prior to install as there are two black wires in their loom. You'll save time during install day. Also the passenger side 02 wires are significantly closer to the headers than the drivers side. Heat shield are really useful.
Random notes: seems almost impossible to use stock studs, But i never tried it but can only assume. Also it helps to have an extra set of hands to help to line up the flanges.
Sound: I run a full TI JIC resonated and Y. I actually have no drone at all but I do have rasp between 3000-3500. and during various spots on decel.
Still tuning but otherwise its feeling strong, will report later after tune at RT
03-05-2013, 02:13 AM
#1037
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How much do these throw off your tune? I'm already tuned for plenum spacer and high flow cats so I'm just wondering how quickly I would need to get retuned switching to these. Seeing that I have a DE, I have a feeling with the smaller increase in power, there will be a smaller change in AFR.
03-05-2013, 03:43 AM
#1038
If it means anything to you, my IAT are higher during idle. You already know the cramped space around the engine bay, it couldn't hurt either way.
Some Install notes.
Driver Side: Like others have said already the steering shaft has to come out. Pretty simple with two bolts. I also removed the A/C lines to the compressor (Mine had a leak anyway, HP hard line). Majority of the bolts can be done on the topside except the rear cylinder bottom bolt. Used a racket closed end wrench. Otherwise pretty straight forward.
[Other things in the way: Obviously intake and a electrical ground)
Passenger Side: Hard coolant line. was relatively straight forward. The rear bolt was difficult to get to for me. ( could be reached with a long extension and a swivel, or from the bottom with a wrench.) 5/6 bolts can be done from the top, the rear lower was difficult to get to again. Had several tries before getting in, be extremely patient. And as someone mentioned already theres two brackets in the way. One on the back of the alternator and one holding a sensor connection. It makes direct contact with the header primary.
Also as others have mentioned on my 06, it has five wires for the stock sensors. It also helps to test the wires prior to install as there are two black wires in their loom. You'll save time during install day. Also the passenger side 02 wires are significantly closer to the headers than the drivers side. Heat shield are really useful.
Random notes: seems almost impossible to use stock studs, But i never tried it but can only assume. Also it helps to have an extra set of hands to help to line up the flanges.
Sound: I run a full TI JIC resonated and Y. I actually have no drone at all but I do have rasp between 3000-3500. and during various spots on decel.
Still tuning but otherwise its feeling strong, will report later after tune at RT
Some Install notes.
Driver Side: Like others have said already the steering shaft has to come out. Pretty simple with two bolts. I also removed the A/C lines to the compressor (Mine had a leak anyway, HP hard line). Majority of the bolts can be done on the topside except the rear cylinder bottom bolt. Used a racket closed end wrench. Otherwise pretty straight forward.
[Other things in the way: Obviously intake and a electrical ground)
Passenger Side: Hard coolant line. was relatively straight forward. The rear bolt was difficult to get to for me. ( could be reached with a long extension and a swivel, or from the bottom with a wrench.) 5/6 bolts can be done from the top, the rear lower was difficult to get to again. Had several tries before getting in, be extremely patient. And as someone mentioned already theres two brackets in the way. One on the back of the alternator and one holding a sensor connection. It makes direct contact with the header primary.
Also as others have mentioned on my 06, it has five wires for the stock sensors. It also helps to test the wires prior to install as there are two black wires in their loom. You'll save time during install day. Also the passenger side 02 wires are significantly closer to the headers than the drivers side. Heat shield are really useful.
Random notes: seems almost impossible to use stock studs, But i never tried it but can only assume. Also it helps to have an extra set of hands to help to line up the flanges.
Sound: I run a full TI JIC resonated and Y. I actually have no drone at all but I do have rasp between 3000-3500. and during various spots on decel.
Still tuning but otherwise its feeling strong, will report later after tune at RT
I know that you will have more since I'm auto just want to compare the headers to another car on the same dyno.
Are yours stepped or non stepped?
03-05-2013, 09:41 AM
#1040
How much do these throw off your tune? I'm already tuned for plenum spacer and high flow cats so I'm just wondering how quickly I would need to get retuned switching to these. Seeing that I have a DE, I have a feeling with the smaller increase in power, there will be a smaller change in AFR.
Something to note also, my car actually is quieter in cabin after the headers during highway cruising, found that interesting.