PhoenixINX

Can we see your dynos?

When you start stacking mods, each mod won't carry as much value... HOWEVER I am curious about seeing your STOCK dyno... then one with the plenum.

Feel free to PM me with it if you don't want to share on here.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Sure, as soon as I get my dynos from the dyno shop, I will email them to you. Do you know who could host them fo me? Ill get back to you via PM when I have them. Why so curious to see my stock dyno? And why havent I seen ANY gains at redline with the plenum. I'd be happy if my power didnt drop off up top as much, but the power curve is the same as stock, speaking of hp, tq is lower around 2-3k but after that I gain 10ftlbs midrange. I have my doubts about this plenum....seems like the only people that have gained anything are affiliated with Crawford.

hfm

iTrader: (1)

Alberto,

Phoenix is so interested because he is ... as his avatar describes, a Crawford pimp. I don't know what the real relationship is, whether he's an employee, a family member or just good friends with Crawford. Regardless, you may consider his opinions relentless pro-Crawford.

The people who have gained things are all butt-dyno. There are only two independent dynos. One, test is uncertain and the other is clouded by the AEM CAI. However, the people who have claimed gains are not all afilliated with Crawford. Many such as, well I call him KY Jelly, and Randy are I believe, part of the Tennessee Z club and are therefore, just very tight knit with Crawford. However, there are clearly some people who have no relationship whatsoever with Crawford who believe they have gains.

I don't recall you posting in any plenum threads. Here is some reading material.

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ht=independent

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ht=independent

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ht=independent

When it comes to the Crawford plenum, I have four things to say:

1) There are some gains.
2) They do not appear to be what is claimed.
3) The only reasonable person to discuss this issue with at Crawford is Vandy, and
4) Expect a world of fecal matter strewn from a gang of biased individuals with no evidence to support their claims to be flung in your general direction if you say anything negative about Crawford.

Look forward to your stock vs. plenum dyno.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

HFM, yes I remember that huge debate but forget much of the content. I dont want this to turn into another plenum debate. Just stating that I have no more gains @ redline like many people claim. I will as I said eventually get to the dyno with a stock plenum, and see what happens. I will post results then. Until then I am giving the plenum the benefit of the doubt...but I think its mostly cuz I dont want to admit that I may have made a $650 mistake, I also have the STB, which BTW has fitment issues on MY car, it rubs the hood in 2 different places Time will tell......this post is just to post my feelings that the AEM is POS and the JWT is def a good bang for the buck.

hfm

iTrader: (1)

Give it the benefit of the doubt. Then, read your dyno. And, yes, the AEM is a POS and the JWT is a good value. Zxsaint and I figured that out a little while ago and tried to pass that on to others. Good luck.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

HFM, just skimmed through your huge plenum debate. Interesting thing I noticed was that Doug said that the AEM's long tube didnt work well with the plenum. It could be true look at my results. When I get my dynos I am going to post them, so everybody can review them. From what I remember my top-end loss was the same though.

hfm

iTrader: (1)

Yes. You will find that I said I believed Doug when he explained that symptom with the AEM/Plenum to ZxSaint.

What may make your independent dynos a good sample is that you have the opportunity to do the plenum with the stock box, and the JWT and compare the results to what you got with the AEM.

I expect you will get better results with the plenum with either the stock box or the JWT. The question is, how much better.

Looking forward to your dynos.

[Edit: I am particularily interested in JWT with stock plenum v. JWT with Crawford plenum.]

lowrider

iTrader: (3)

Not trying to start anything, but I believe you lost power with the AEM, and gained it back with the POPCharger. POPChargers are good for a couple HP not 11 or 12. Yes, I believe the POPCharger is a good mod, as is the Crawford. Looking forward to seeing more results. Thanks for your efforts. Yes, I have the plenum and POPCharger. Crawford Cats are on the way.

Lou

zxsaint

Obvious statements rock

Regained lost power + gained more = 11-12hp. He never claimed the popcharger is good for 11-12 hp.

VandyZ

iTrader: (2)

I saw 1-2 HP on the dyno when I switched from stock box to JWT. I also have dynos from paulo's car where he gained hp when he took the AEM off. I can share them later if anyone is interested.

I dont know why you are not seeing the power up top . . .could be the mods leaning you out or something. Time for ECU?

GY-Z

i am interested!lol
i am thinking to swap my aem CAI to popcharger, so plz post the dyno.
thanks

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Actually at around 2000 rpm I am around 14:1 air/fuel, and from there to fuel cut it gets richer and richer, at redline I was around 12:1 I believe. So anybody worried that test-pipes and a plenum will lean you out...it wont.

VandyZ

iTrader: (2)

WOW, The richest I ever saw was 12.9 and that in the 3000 range.

I have heard a theory (non Crawford) that if the o2 sensors appear to sense a lean condition (for whatever reason) the ecu will richen the car to keep everything safe. I have never seen it, but a theory is a theory.

I would guess that if you lean your car out you will see some more power. N/A the car loves 13.0 to 13.3. I was 13.3 up top! Right now I am 12.8-13.0 with the TS ECU and am making more power with the correct fuel and timing. Now I got to get the 6600+ area tweaked. . . cams may be needed

All the a/f curves from mine, Chris, and Dougs were all similar. Yours is very weird if it is infact 12.1 Too rich or too lean will lose power.

PhoenixINX

Alberto...

Also note I'm one of the oldest members here, and would ONLY put parts on that perform. So let's figure out what's wrong...

Do note that hfm is a non-contributing antagonistic j*****s. Whom has brought ZERO value to this board other than his mouth. Furthermore asked for his account to be deleted, but then changed his mind. (Still can't figure that one out) If you want help, ask people who are interested in helping... Not those whom really do not know what in the hell they are talking about.

Getting back on topic like I said, I'm more than happy to help. If you really want to know, we had a supercharged car here locally gain 10+ hp by switching his AEM CAI to a stock airbox. AEMs are stellar on some cars, and downfalls on others...

As for your AF reading... don't worry about sub 3500rpm. You being THAT rich up top however is interesting, do you have the af readings against the dyno?

How long have you driven this setup? What are your "driving patterns"? How many runs did you make on the dyno? These are ALL valuable questions, which may lead to valuable results.

Cheers!

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

I have air/fuel plot with every one of my pulls. I did 3 pulls, like I always do. The first time I ever dynoed I let the car cool down, then ran it, I gained power everytime. Then after reading about how Crawford says that we should get the oil up to temp, I drove the car moderately aggressive to the dyno, let it idle, put it on the rollers, and did 3 pulls, thinking that keeping the oil "warm" would help. I lost power everytime, meaning my 1st pull was the highest. This latest time I let the car cool down again, and I made more power everytime. Now, I have been driving on the current set-up with the AEM for about 10k miles or so. I have put about 1K on the pop-charger. Honestly not sure its hard for me to keep track, I've had my car 1 year and put 29k miles on it, and I didnt drive it for 1 month. I called the shop today about them emailing me my plots, but they havent sent them yet, I'll have to check when I get to work tomorrow. When I get them, I'll email you if you provide me an address....you can post them if you want. Also keep in mind I havent seen my plots since yesterday afternoon, so I may be slightly off on the air/fuel, but I am 95% sure it was 12-12.5:1 @ redline....and I run 93 octane if that matters. Aa far as driving patterns, I would say I drive my car aggressively. I rarely ever go a day without hitting redline at least once, although lately I have been babying it. I usually go racing/messing around with my friends whenever I get the chance. I drive the car the way it was meant to be driven, I'm not one of these idiots that shifts @ 2500rpm all day, but I;m not constantly ragging on my car, know what I mean??

**Note: hours before I dynoed my car the 2nd time, with my AEM, I replaced the filter for a new one, because the old one was so dirty, I didnt think recharging it would help....so even though I had 10K miles on the AEM, the filter was NEW.

lowrider

iTrader: (3)

zxsaint

Zlap. Did you get wet?

Lou

PhoenixINX

You know, I'm almost wondering if your car was already heatsoaked from driving it hard there...

What was the temp that day?

Feel free to send them... Chris@CrawfordZ.com

1k miles is MORE than enough for the ECU to adapt... Have you cleaned your MAF after these two different intakes? If it's not giving accurate readings it could be throwing off af. REALLY hard to say.

Regardless it is you going that rich that is causing the powerloss... PERIOD. We need to determine what's causing it to go rich, bottomline.

Good convo regardless, lets keep it up! (Without smack talkers... )

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Keep your gay $hit off this thread, I'm trying to provide people with helpful information, go post ***** somewhere else....

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

I drove it moderately, I wouldnt say enough to heat soak it, although I think of turbo cars when I say that...I didnt just set the cruise control at 60 you know. I had a few 5th gear spurts to 100 or so, no big deal. It sat for 5 minutes, got put on the rollers, then I asked the operator to keep it idleing while he strapped it down, and hooked up the rpm wire. Then we made 3 pulls with about 2-5 minutes between each one, except the last pull we let it sit for 10 minutes thinking exactly what you said, that maybe t was too hot. BTW, temp with the AEM was like 55 degrees, low 50's high 40's this past time with the pop-charger, so the temps were pretty close.

FLY BY Z

I gotta be honest with you Al. The Crawford is a metal plenum. Heat is going to affect it a LOT. With Kinetix, you can run it hard all day, jump out, open the hood, and put your cheek on the plenum and be ok. yes, you will be warm, but ok. With a metal plenum, you could go out for a drive in morning and cook your breakfast on the plenum when you get back.

Heat soak is worse when you let the car sit. Once you stop moving there is no coolant flowing, no air moving over the motor, through the radiator, etc. The motor will actually get even hotter for the first 15-20 minutes before it begins to cool down. You would have to let it sit for like an hour or more before you could get rid of the effects of the heat. Sort of sucks.