Keep your exhaust stock! tell me if im wrong
03-25-2004, 02:22 AM
#22
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Originally posted by jng1226
I posted this in another thread, and I think it's relevant here:
<<
Road and Track Magazine - November 2003 Issue
They tested 4 tuned 350Zs, and to me the most interesting was the Motorex 350Z. It had JWT cams, flywheel and Pop Charger and new wheels and C-West Bodykit (and it had the STOCK EXHAUST). At the test track it did 0-60 in 5.1 and 1/4 at 13.7@104.6. This compared extremely well to the Stillen SMZ's (supercharged) numbers: 5.3 and 13.8@104.8.
They also tested a GReddy TT at the same time and it did 5.2 and 13.4@108.1. For comparison, their stock 350Z did 5.8 and 14.4@99.7.
I posted this in another thread, and I think it's relevant here:
<<
Road and Track Magazine - November 2003 Issue
They tested 4 tuned 350Zs, and to me the most interesting was the Motorex 350Z. It had JWT cams, flywheel and Pop Charger and new wheels and C-West Bodykit (and it had the STOCK EXHAUST). At the test track it did 0-60 in 5.1 and 1/4 at 13.7@104.6. This compared extremely well to the Stillen SMZ's (supercharged) numbers: 5.3 and 13.8@104.8.
They also tested a GReddy TT at the same time and it did 5.2 and 13.4@108.1. For comparison, their stock 350Z did 5.8 and 14.4@99.7.
Lets see the stock Z does 0-60 in 5.9 and with the ***** riding along it does 6.3. At $8000 for the TT that works out to about $28,800,000.00 per hour! Anybody here make that kind of money? If so please PM me, I would make one great assistant. References available upon request.
03-25-2004, 04:48 AM
#23
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Originally posted by 350 PILOT
The duals and pop charger just put the performance of my Z over the edge where average drivers might feel uncomfortable.
That said, putting FI on a NA engine is a recipe for disaster. The engine simply wasn't designed for the extra PSI. In the long run I think people will pay much more than 5k for this mod (hope I'm wrong).
The duals and pop charger just put the performance of my Z over the edge where average drivers might feel uncomfortable.
That said, putting FI on a NA engine is a recipe for disaster. The engine simply wasn't designed for the extra PSI. In the long run I think people will pay much more than 5k for this mod (hope I'm wrong).
03-25-2004, 08:08 AM
#24
ride in sc z
I got a ride in the SC Z in the northeast meet the car rides incredible at 2000 rpms it felt like mine at 4500 with a injen CAI he has around 385 RWHP. I have heard a lot of reviews on SC for the Z and talked to a few people that own them It is an amazing boost to the car but it does cut down the reliabilty factor. I have a friend up here in Maine who was an engineer and is from japan he is a genius he has built turbos for numerous cars and said he could order a turbo and intercooler and the other necassary stuff from japan for one third the price of greddy and custom build the rest like the plumbing. I think that would be the best way to go and lower the compression 8:5:1 than run 20lbs of boost that would be a mean Z what do you all think?
03-25-2004, 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by jesseenglish
You really ought to get a ride in an FI Z before you say that. Please explain to me how FI in a Z is a recipe for disaster if the car is tuned properly. Seems to me people are putting FI in NA cars on a regular basis, not just the Z.
You really ought to get a ride in an FI Z before you say that. Please explain to me how FI in a Z is a recipe for disaster if the car is tuned properly. Seems to me people are putting FI in NA cars on a regular basis, not just the Z.
P.S. I'll be sure wave as you blow by me.
03-25-2004, 05:51 PM
#26
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I still can't believe some of you guys are comparing N/A to FI powerwise. The extra power is obvious for the FI cars, it is just a matter of traction. What is real interesting is how many times the durability issue is brought up, when most people will not keep their cars to 120,000 miles, much less past that mark.
If you do have some durability issues with FI, at that point, use it as an excuse (opportunity) to go real high in boost with forged internals. It would be like getting a new car all over again, except you would getting your car back with it being more powerful than anything else on the street.
Some people want the power of FI, while some want to be safer and go with N/A. With FI, the negatives are the well known safety risk and getting correct tuning. With N/A, the negatives are the cost of HP gains and the limited potential power gain. No reason to dog the other to justify your decision, both have their ups and downs.
If you do have some durability issues with FI, at that point, use it as an excuse (opportunity) to go real high in boost with forged internals. It would be like getting a new car all over again, except you would getting your car back with it being more powerful than anything else on the street.
Some people want the power of FI, while some want to be safer and go with N/A. With FI, the negatives are the well known safety risk and getting correct tuning. With N/A, the negatives are the cost of HP gains and the limited potential power gain. No reason to dog the other to justify your decision, both have their ups and downs.
Last edited by little_rod; 03-25-2004 at 06:00 PM.
10-30-2004, 05:38 PM
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Re: Keep your exhaust stock! tell me if im wrong
Originally posted by bigern1970
I see everybody claiming that their exhaust makes the most power i.e dyno numbers. I personally have a magnaflow exhaust, all in all the stock exhaust is the best , may not have the best sound but I think Nissan put so much into designing into this car that most mods hurt rather than help, I would feel safe saying that 95 percent of the people in here never put their car on a dyno and rely solely on the dyno sheets and car magazine reviews. You cant go on those numbers while these claims may be true that they make 12 hp at 5,000 plus rpms, they dont say how much they lose at bottom end how many of us really drive with the rpms constantly over 5500, I bet not many of you, ofcourse its $$$ with all these companies, I have had turbocharged integras 12.95 quarters, sub 13 second Datsun 510, and I will tell you this by the time you bolt on all the mods , the intake, exhaust, cams and plenums, port and polish , your better off getting nice turbo or supercharged system reliable torque where you have most fun, Yes there are fast normally aspirated cars out there running sub 13's but trust me they are a beast on the street and most are worthy of being trailer queens, save your money and put it in to somthing else on your car, all the normally aspirated mods are not worth it, and I almost caught myself getting caught up in the same with my 350, I will save my pesos and get SC or Turbo , that way I can run the biggest exhaust i want for less then 500 bucks way less and not have to worry about back pressure and dont have to worry about cams enjoy your Z and dont let these companies take your hard earned dollars if it burning a hole in you pocket tell your wife to stash it until you get enough for that supercharger , thanks
one mans opinion
I see everybody claiming that their exhaust makes the most power i.e dyno numbers. I personally have a magnaflow exhaust, all in all the stock exhaust is the best , may not have the best sound but I think Nissan put so much into designing into this car that most mods hurt rather than help, I would feel safe saying that 95 percent of the people in here never put their car on a dyno and rely solely on the dyno sheets and car magazine reviews. You cant go on those numbers while these claims may be true that they make 12 hp at 5,000 plus rpms, they dont say how much they lose at bottom end how many of us really drive with the rpms constantly over 5500, I bet not many of you, ofcourse its $$$ with all these companies, I have had turbocharged integras 12.95 quarters, sub 13 second Datsun 510, and I will tell you this by the time you bolt on all the mods , the intake, exhaust, cams and plenums, port and polish , your better off getting nice turbo or supercharged system reliable torque where you have most fun, Yes there are fast normally aspirated cars out there running sub 13's but trust me they are a beast on the street and most are worthy of being trailer queens, save your money and put it in to somthing else on your car, all the normally aspirated mods are not worth it, and I almost caught myself getting caught up in the same with my 350, I will save my pesos and get SC or Turbo , that way I can run the biggest exhaust i want for less then 500 bucks way less and not have to worry about back pressure and dont have to worry about cams enjoy your Z and dont let these companies take your hard earned dollars if it burning a hole in you pocket tell your wife to stash it until you get enough for that supercharger , thanks
one mans opinion
10-31-2004, 04:16 AM
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The real gain no one seems to be thinking about is from the catback the exhaust weighs a massive 74 lbs that includes stock y pipe. If you invest the money and don't care about noise you can get this down to less than 20 lbs.
10-31-2004, 06:37 AM
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thing is a turbo Z or SC has not yet proven itself to be the "bulletproof" setup that the NA route is. Although I could literally take all the FI parts off the shelf and have had them on my car for a long time now, I decided to stay NA simply because it is my everyday car. I've done NA-turbo conversions before, and the opne thing it taught me was - make sure you have another car to get you to work everyday. Dont get me wrong, a 500-600 hp Z sounds like a fantasic setup, it's just not what my own goals are. As for the NA mods...I have not sacraficed a drop of HP or torque down low and made lots of gains up top - that is the nature of this engine in the first place and I've been very pleased.
As we all know, this ain't car to get if modding and bang for your buck are high on the priority list, but it's still a fun car to play with
As we all know, this ain't car to get if modding and bang for your buck are high on the priority list, but it's still a fun car to play with
10-31-2004, 06:46 AM
#30
Originally posted by jng1226
I posted this in another thread, and I think it's relevant here:
<<
Road and Track Magazine - November 2003 Issue
They tested 4 tuned 350Zs, and to me the most interesting was the Motorex 350Z. It had JWT cams, flywheel and Pop Charger and new wheels and C-West Bodykit (and it had the STOCK EXHAUST). At the test track it did 0-60 in 5.1 and 1/4 at 13.7@104.6. This compared extremely well to the Stillen SMZ's (supercharged) numbers: 5.3 and 13.8@104.8.
They also tested a GReddy TT at the same time and it did 5.2 and 13.4@108.1. For comparison, their stock 350Z did 5.8 and 14.4@99.7.
For my money, and driveability and reliability (peace of mind) - NA is the way to go, particularly with the JWT parts. Imagine what would happen if they had also redone the headers, cats and full exhaust...
>>
So, how much does the JWT parts and mods cost compared to the TT and SC? And how much more gains did you get along with the potential headaches of TT and SC. If you search around here you'll find some guys in TX and TN that have NA mods and are maybe .3-.5 off what TT people are running in the 1/4, and their cars are far more reliable and dare I say more driveable in daily-driving or even autocrossing situations.
Seriously - unless you are a race mechanic that knows your motor/drivetrain inside and out (and did all the work yourself to be sure), tell me that you don't have some element of fear of something breaking on your FI modded-Z everytime your mash the go-pedal. SC and TT = more stuff going on/more stuff TO GO wrong. That said, I do love the sound of TT and actually like all the toys to play with (gauges, electronic boost controllerr, BOVs, etc.).
IMHO, I prefer to keep my compression stock and have an all-motor car that can just about run with an FI car for FAR LESS money/worries...
I posted this in another thread, and I think it's relevant here:
<<
Road and Track Magazine - November 2003 Issue
They tested 4 tuned 350Zs, and to me the most interesting was the Motorex 350Z. It had JWT cams, flywheel and Pop Charger and new wheels and C-West Bodykit (and it had the STOCK EXHAUST). At the test track it did 0-60 in 5.1 and 1/4 at 13.7@104.6. This compared extremely well to the Stillen SMZ's (supercharged) numbers: 5.3 and 13.8@104.8.
They also tested a GReddy TT at the same time and it did 5.2 and 13.4@108.1. For comparison, their stock 350Z did 5.8 and 14.4@99.7.
For my money, and driveability and reliability (peace of mind) - NA is the way to go, particularly with the JWT parts. Imagine what would happen if they had also redone the headers, cats and full exhaust...
>>
So, how much does the JWT parts and mods cost compared to the TT and SC? And how much more gains did you get along with the potential headaches of TT and SC. If you search around here you'll find some guys in TX and TN that have NA mods and are maybe .3-.5 off what TT people are running in the 1/4, and their cars are far more reliable and dare I say more driveable in daily-driving or even autocrossing situations.
Seriously - unless you are a race mechanic that knows your motor/drivetrain inside and out (and did all the work yourself to be sure), tell me that you don't have some element of fear of something breaking on your FI modded-Z everytime your mash the go-pedal. SC and TT = more stuff going on/more stuff TO GO wrong. That said, I do love the sound of TT and actually like all the toys to play with (gauges, electronic boost controllerr, BOVs, etc.).
IMHO, I prefer to keep my compression stock and have an all-motor car that can just about run with an FI car for FAR LESS money/worries...
12-16-2004, 02:08 PM
#31
13.6@104 w/ Injen Intake and stillen Exhaust
WOO HOO I am faster than the SC stillen car.......
THose #'s are horrible IF i spent 3-5k on my engine i better be doing atleast high12's correct me if im wrong. I only got the stillen exhaust due to my friend getting rid of his Z and offering it to me for a low low price.
WOO HOO I am faster than the SC stillen car.......
THose #'s are horrible IF i spent 3-5k on my engine i better be doing atleast high12's correct me if im wrong. I only got the stillen exhaust due to my friend getting rid of his Z and offering it to me for a low low price.
12-16-2004, 02:17 PM
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to the first poster
you are wrong
I got 8 with my stillen NA
and when I got the supercharger, I put the stocker on and then the stillen
stock: 349
stillen:360
And, IMO the stillen looks and sounds a ton better
you are wrong
I got 8 with my stillen NA
and when I got the supercharger, I put the stocker on and then the stillen
stock: 349
stillen:360
And, IMO the stillen looks and sounds a ton better
12-17-2004, 11:41 AM
#34
Registered User
Originally posted by bigern1970
Nothing wrong with that at all that what makes this hobby so nice to each his own, the point i was making is that a stillen exhaust is almost 1k headers anywhere from 500-900 , anywhere from 100 to 300 for intake dont know how much a plenum cost, jwt cams 1,100.00, thats almost 2k away from a turbo. I know everyone doesnt have 5k to spend Im fotunate enough where I can if i decide to go that route, but if you can save you chips over a year or so a sc or tc system is in reach for everyone ,,,,,,,if you can afford a z a system isnt far off. food for though just make a mental note lol
Nothing wrong with that at all that what makes this hobby so nice to each his own, the point i was making is that a stillen exhaust is almost 1k headers anywhere from 500-900 , anywhere from 100 to 300 for intake dont know how much a plenum cost, jwt cams 1,100.00, thats almost 2k away from a turbo. I know everyone doesnt have 5k to spend Im fotunate enough where I can if i decide to go that route, but if you can save you chips over a year or so a sc or tc system is in reach for everyone ,,,,,,,if you can afford a z a system isnt far off. food for though just make a mental note lol
Last edited by Speedracer; 12-17-2004 at 11:52 AM.
03-01-2005, 09:39 AM
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I've been into cars since 1998.
If my Honda Civic can run with a supercharger boosting 8psi for 3 years with only an FMU and fuel pump........
It as a D series too that had tiny rods.
I just bought a popcharger, but I'm going FI in the future.
Keeping the boost conservative and having a good fuel system is all it takes to run a reliable FI Z.
If my Honda Civic can run with a supercharger boosting 8psi for 3 years with only an FMU and fuel pump........
It as a D series too that had tiny rods.
I just bought a popcharger, but I'm going FI in the future.
Keeping the boost conservative and having a good fuel system is all it takes to run a reliable FI Z.
03-02-2005, 10:32 AM
#37
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I will say this about the stock exhaust. IT IS A HELLA LOT HEAVIER than my nismo. That has to equal something. Im talking big time weight. Possible 50 lbs thats alot when you talk HP.
03-02-2005, 11:17 AM
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Well, about Stillen... I have to say I have seen multiple dyno charts from magazine and private owners to test this their dual SS exhaust system, and every single one appears to be about the same. RWHP and TQ curves NEVER drop below stock and peak RWHP gain is around 8-10 (most of this HP gain is at high rpms though). Torque is around 5-7 typical at peak, but it is pretty much 4+ TQ gain throughout the entire rpm range. I have only seen a very few others that gain this much RWHP, but I haven't seen any that come close in Torque numbers... especially not at low RPMs.
True, you gain about 10 lbs. over stock, and it costs $1150... but you gotta consider there is no need to buy the Y-pipe since it gets replaced in this kit. As a matter of fact, when they weigh the stock exhaust for these comparisons, they don't include the weight of the Y-pipe because generally it isn't replaced on an exhaust system (like Nismo). So, I don't think you gain any weight at all over stock to be honest.
Anyway, Stillen is very free flowing and I think with other mods, it will compliment even more impressively. I think it is the way to go for the most HP/TQ gains as you build your n/a or FI motor. my .02
True, you gain about 10 lbs. over stock, and it costs $1150... but you gotta consider there is no need to buy the Y-pipe since it gets replaced in this kit. As a matter of fact, when they weigh the stock exhaust for these comparisons, they don't include the weight of the Y-pipe because generally it isn't replaced on an exhaust system (like Nismo). So, I don't think you gain any weight at all over stock to be honest.
Anyway, Stillen is very free flowing and I think with other mods, it will compliment even more impressively. I think it is the way to go for the most HP/TQ gains as you build your n/a or FI motor. my .02
03-02-2005, 12:28 PM
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Interesting point about the Y-pipe, xephiron. Makes stillen's exhaust not seem so overweight after all.
Everybody who's complaining about exhaust costs for a Z should look at how expensive it is to mod a BMW M3 exhaust. Just the last muffler section costs $1200-1500 and replacing the midpipe can be another $500-$1100. Seems like the more expensive the car, the more expensive the aftermarket parts are.
By the way, people are doing FI on M3s and using special head gaskets that lower the compression. I wonder why nobody does that for the Z? From what I've heard though, the stock rods on the M3 are forged and pretty strong.
Bottom line is how much do you want to spend and what do you want to do with the car? I'd rather keep my Z N/A just because of the difficulty of producing reliable FI and instead FI an M3 which takes to boost with a lot less problems.
Everybody who's complaining about exhaust costs for a Z should look at how expensive it is to mod a BMW M3 exhaust. Just the last muffler section costs $1200-1500 and replacing the midpipe can be another $500-$1100. Seems like the more expensive the car, the more expensive the aftermarket parts are.
By the way, people are doing FI on M3s and using special head gaskets that lower the compression. I wonder why nobody does that for the Z? From what I've heard though, the stock rods on the M3 are forged and pretty strong.
Bottom line is how much do you want to spend and what do you want to do with the car? I'd rather keep my Z N/A just because of the difficulty of producing reliable FI and instead FI an M3 which takes to boost with a lot less problems.
03-02-2005, 06:51 PM
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this thread seems to have more to do with turbo and sc power vs stock bolt on power rather than changing out the exhaust.
so another words your saying why bother with the na mods and just go with a turbo or sc for power.....well you have to consider reliablility in doing so. if you go bang....your down hard and most likely with no warranty to fall back on. if you stay na i don't think you would ever have to worry about blowing your motor no matter how hard you push it, even on a daily basis.
btw, i have the fuji ti and i bought it for the looks and sound....i can tell you its much better than the stock exhaust and weighs less than your stock, or stillens y-pipe
so another words your saying why bother with the na mods and just go with a turbo or sc for power.....well you have to consider reliablility in doing so. if you go bang....your down hard and most likely with no warranty to fall back on. if you stay na i don't think you would ever have to worry about blowing your motor no matter how hard you push it, even on a daily basis.
btw, i have the fuji ti and i bought it for the looks and sound....i can tell you its much better than the stock exhaust and weighs less than your stock, or stillens y-pipe
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