jelledge

Just got off the phone with Jamie Copenhaver. Had a descent discussion about the tire feathering what is being done. Here is the jist of the discussion:

Me: Nissan issued a TSB for tire feathering and alignment some time ago and yet we have people who are on their second and third set of tires with the same problems. What is Nissan doing?

Jamie: At first Nissan engineers thought the feathering problems were isolated to initial alignment problems when the cars were delivered. The TSB was intended to resolve this. However ever since the letter and fax campaign was recieved Nissan is now starting a large investigation into the problem to find the root cause. Nissan engineers from Japan are coming to the U.S. in two weeks to investigate some of the cars that have had repeated problems.

The Japan engineers will be investigating whether the dealerships are able to align the cars to proper specs with their equipment or not. The engineers believe the problems are with incorrectly set toe by dealerships.
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Me: So Nissan does not think this is a suspension problem but rather a problem with dealerships not setting toe properly?

Jamie: We do not think there is anything wrong with the suspension. The 350Z is very sensitive to alignment settings.
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Me: Nissan has only now realized that there is a major problem with the tire feathering and the TSB has not fixed it?

Jamie: Yes. Nissan Japan thought the TSB would fix the problems.
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Me: Nissan just released a press statement saying that the 350Z will get the new Euro tuned suspension. Doesn't this indiciate there is something wrong with the suspension?

Jamie: The suspension changes DO NOT alter the suspension geometry. It will only affect ride quality.
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Me: So Nissan does not think there are any problems with the suspension's ability to control the car's front end and the wheel motion?

Jamie: No
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Me: What is the timeline for finding a solution?

Jamie: Engineers from Japan will come to the U.S. in two weeks to start examining dealership's alignment equipment and determine if the cars are being aligned properly. As of now there is no timeline for a permanent fix / resolution until the problems can be determined.
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Me: Right now I am on my 2nd set of tires and they are feathered badly. My dealership, Nissan consumer affairs, and Regional rep all say that there is nothing they can do and it is my problem. They also say to rotate the tires even though that is not in the service manual. What should I do?

Jamie: Until there is a resolution for this problem we can look into getting you new front tires again to temporarily fix the problems. I will contact your dealer to look into this further.
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Jamie: Can you take your car to another dealership and have the TSB performed again. This way we can verify the alignment settings?

Me: Well, I could. However most dealers are refusing to do anything after 12,000 miles on the car. I am at 16k right now.
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Jamie: Really? Let me note that....

Me: Yes, many people have been denied service or had to fight tooth and nail to get the TSB done.
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Me: Have you seen or heard about the testing done on the 350Z's suspension with Hunter alignment equipment that showed the suspension was unable to control the Z's front end properly under speed / load?

Jamie: No
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Me: Ok, let's see about getting another set of tires and or alignment done at another dealer to check the settings again. Can you see about getting this done?

Jamie: Yes let me call your dealer and look into this further.....
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Me: It would be helpful if Nissan could tell us what type of alignment equipment should be used so we know....

Jamie: Yes I will see about getting that info.
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My observations:
1. I was positively stunned that Nissan did know that the tire feathering is a repeating problem and not just a one time thing. Wow good thing the email / fax letter campaign was done.

2. Jamie knew ALOT about what was going on and was very well informed. Seemed helpful and very willing to fix the problems. This made me feel alot better about getting the problems fixed.

3. Nissan engineers think that the problem is still with the alignment settings either not being done correctly or accurately enough by the dealers due to old equipment -- ehhh maybe.

4. The email / fax campaign has had a positive effect at Nissan and is making them work on the problem.

Okay let's see what happens now....

Ja

yobri

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for keeping us posted. Glad to hear that the ball is rolling...

Apexi350z

iTrader: (3)

Thank you for the update... That's pretty much all the questions I would've asked

Stu E

I assume you quoted your entire conversation, but I am curious if anything came up about the numerous reoccuring transmission problems, especially with 2nd and 3rd gears.

Thanks again for your efforts,

Stu E.

jelledge

Well, I might have left out one or two minor questions, but nothing about the tranny.

I tried to keep things very focused on this issue and remain calm and cool. This is best way to get the response we want.

alphared

whoa. If Nissan can confirm without a doubt that its not the supension that cause the tire feathering then we can go and put on Nismo supensions. Since its not the supension fault, we can't be denied tire replacements for the front feathering. Man, we all need to get this in writing.

vincenzobar

well that doesn't explain the cuppin, yeah feathering stops but then we get cupping! because of welded camber and caster. right?!?!

later models and 04 don't have this problem ONLY. Nismo S-tune seem to fix the problem!

I don't care what Nissan has to say, there is no way they will admit to a 1800 dollar suspension recall! I am fighting for a new suspension with my dealer!!! I better win this! Or i am sueing Nissan, I promise!

2003z

iTrader: (7)

I tend to think its dealers not being able to align properly. Droideka found out his dealerships alignment was off, and I've got 8000 miles on my tires, with no abnormal wear, and I had a preemptive alignment done at a real tire shop when I had my wheels mounted.

jmark

iTrader: (1)

I agree 2003Z. I think its dealer screw ups or old settings. The car is so sensitive to the alignment that it only takes a little mistake to screw things up.

droideka

*DING*

I'm too lazy to find my thread in the wheel/tires section, but my front AND rear toe-in was set at 19MM! It is supposed to be 2MM MAX! I have a printout from the fancy-schmancy HUNTER alignment machine that is NOT properly calibrated and indicates that my toe-in was set at 2MM.

benzz280

iTrader: (2)

2003z or droideka,do you mind posting the supposedly correct alignment spec so i can bring it to my dealer? Thanks!

Grommit

iTrader: (3)

Hey droideka,

I notice you have the S-Tune coilovers installed as well as after market rims and tires. Did this by chance solve your feathering issue?

I've been hearing from various people on this forum that the s-tune coil overs seem to fix the feathering issue.

Thanks man.

droideka

The wear problem on the inside of the tire is cupping and is caused by too much toe-out. Period. Once I had my toe-out corrected way back when, I've NEVER experienced cupping ever again. Yes, I'm the one who started the "feathering" thread and mistakenly called cupping "feathering". I was mis-informed.

Feathering occurs with too much toe-in and will shread a tire in two-thousand miles depending on the severity of toe-in. Feathering helped me destroy 5 sets of tires this year due to my dealer's FAULTY alignment machine.

woogemooge

Droideka - so did your problems end up going away? and it was all because it was aligned improperly by your dealer?? i've always thought that you had the most feathering/cupping problems...but if it's gone away, then i can rest assured that a proper alignment will fix the problem

Grommit

iTrader: (3)

Hmmm... droideka, I don't want to push your buttons so I'm sorry if I do, but, did you get a proper alignment before or after you got the coilovers installed?

benzz280

iTrader: (2)

mind scan a copy of your alignment sheet???

SungNamZ

The "Toe Out" was what my dealer found. The OEM tires were finally replaced at 19,000 miles. In conjunction with replacing the allignment in accordance with the TSB was performed. Camber was fine. Much to the shock of the Nissan Master Tech., he discovered severe "Toe Out", thus his quote, "You have been plowing asphalt". Steering wheel also not alligned.

benzz280

iTrader: (2)

mind scan a copy of your alignment sheet???

CottonWoodz

Thats what I have benn trying to tell people. If you get the alignment done and new tires, and 5000 miles later they start cupping, then the alignment wasnt done right..

overZealous

Not to be confrontational but there are a couple of minor problems with this statement. For one thing you have replaced some of your suspension components so your vehicle is probably not a good choice to establish a baseline. Also, the cupping caused by improper toe normally manifests itself across the tire, not around the circumference. This is intuitive as the the tire is being "scrubbed" from one side to the other. With regard to the Nissan theory that every Nissan Dealership's alignment equipment/practices are defective, my own experience contradicts this as I have had several all at different dealers. The numbers are suprisingly consistent (down to .01" difference in measured toe) between dealers. My toe settings were never out of spec, however, they have been "tweaked" as a result of Nissan's input regarding the toe settings which, by the way, represents still more evidence that there is a problem that Nissan can't seem to fix. They have changed the original alignment numbers hoping that this would correct the problem and, of course, at least for most of us, it has not.

I am also fairly skeptical about this entire "Japanese tour" thing and find it hard to believe that, in spite of the fact that almost every 350Z produced to date has come back with front tire problems and that Nissan has been footing the bill for these problems and has replaced thousands upon thousands of tires, they are just becoming aware of the problem and are unable to duplicate it in Japan. I also find it highly implausable that a couple of hundreths on an inch in toe specs will mean the difference between eating a set of tires every 4 or 5,000 miles and not. Statements like this lead me to doubt Nissan's commitment to solve the problem on existing vehicles. And the notion that no Nissan Dealer in the US is capable of performing a front end alignment is ludicrous.