noted thanks

 

I think you're missing my point. The Dyno graph was produced by AAM. It doesn't really matter who posted it. It also doesn't really matter that the dyno graph is "fuzzy". That HP curve is ridiculously straight for a engine that has "hardcore" knock.

I'm not sure why you're getting upset at people here making these observations. Something isn't adding up.

 

I'm getting frustrated simply for the fact of getting ganged up on. I am not a tuner and not sure of what is happening. I know I heard knock through the headphones and right now I just need to hear from both parties explain everything and go from there

 

Why dont we all let this thing just pass over and let bryce take care of it the way he wants to.Hell its his car.

 

Finally, thank you. I do greatly appreciate everyone just trying to look out for me but at the end of the day I just need to have the peace of mind that my car is tuned correctly and not at risk. I understand you are only trying to help and thank you for it.

 

How do you know, with 100% confidence, that Bryce's car is not knocking?

Bryce stressed to us that he was not happy with his cars performance/power, and at times felt like it was being "held back".

Bryce described knock, but thought it was coming from an upper intercooler pipe which had been making contact with the bolt on the backside of one of the superhcarger pullies. He said it had been making this sounds for a while now. He add'l told us that he mentioned this to you back in Sept. and was told that is was nothing to worry about - probably why he is pretty upset.

Because I did not want Bryce to simply take our word on the knock, we took the time to show him so there wouldn't be any confusion.

When anyone tunes the UTEC there are many other factors that come into play - and this is where the greatest differences normally are from shop to shop.

I do not what to call anyone tuning style out, so first I'd like to mention that there are many different tuning styles. A good setup can be achieved several different ways. Because this thread is about Altered Atmosphere and our work I am going to comment on how I'd setup Bryce's car:

The factory ECU in Bryce's car dials in too much timing below 4,000rpm. Every year there was a progression in the factory 350Z ECU where Nissan increased the timing. The knock timing in the 06 factory ECU is nearly as great as the original standard timing.

This is the first UTEC setup I've seen where the switchover is so high - the car runs several psi before the UTEC takes over. I would lower the switch-over point so that my programming, geard for a forced induction setup, is in control. I believe this would be better than letting the factory NA programming run the car in boost.

I also would let the UTEC take control sooner because at lower rpms the factory ECU will always try to maintain a sub 14 af ratio, and has a large window to "lean up" the car with its af feedback feature.

To further compliment the UTEC, I'd Flash the ECU so that it has proper forced induction tuning, similar to how a vehicle manufacturer sets up a factory forced induction computer. I would also scale the factory ECU for the customers larger injectors and modify the factory air-fuel feedback target map for the appropriate af ratios. Not only does this increase the transitional or pre-UTEC reliability, if something was to happen to the UTEC it could be bypassed and the car could be driven to a repair shop safely.

Also, I prefer not to use a map from another vehicle and do a quick tune. I prefer to take the extra time to start from scratch. Once any tuner has countless UTEC tunes established they may select a map from a vehicle that had a very similar setup. If I've tuned a very similar setup this is what I do, and I take it a step further by still completely redoing the fueling map for each particular vehicle and double checking the knock parameter setup.

If I remember correctly Bryce has less than 10K miles on his car, I think its taken as an insult when someone says "doesn't matter what happens".

Before you said the factory computer would take out timing, then you change the story and show a picture of the "UTEC" taking out knock - which is quite different. Many people reading the post will not realize the "knocking" scenario has changed.

If setup aggressively, the UTEC can take a good amount of timing out when it registers knock. How does the UTEC register knock? It registers on a value the tuner inputs per rpm range. So, the UTEC can be setup ultra sensitive and may register what it thinks is knock from normal engine noise. Or, the UTEC can be setup "lose" and may not notice a rod throuwn out of the side of the block! The picture posted of the UTEC taking out knock is irrelevant.

If I tune Bryce's car I will increase and verify the knock parameters so that it detects the knock we experienced.

We do not see more than .2 to .4 a/f variance on most vehicles between the Dynojet and street. With a decent computer when the compensation tables are correctly setup, this variance is minimized.

Turkey time! Happy Thanksgiving everyone! I'll post more later

 

356 at 9 psi.? What mods do you have, I was putting down 380 at Altered and I was leaning out around 6000-6600 rpms. (air fuel went from 12.0 to 13.0 in the last 600 rpms)

 

Not much different from you, this is where the losing hp due to tune comes in man. Mike was saying just about every supercharged z/g with similar mod's was pushing a minimum of 380 on the dyno

 

I think AAM's tune was causing me to lose power along with the air / fuel leaning out. Dave tweaked my tune before the drag event and I could definitely feel a difference in how hard the car pulled as well as set down some new records on street tires. The two dynos were different though, as Dave said and it makes sense, once you get the rollers spinning it's harder to register changes while a load based dyno can keep the engine accelerating slow enough to monitor parameters (Dave, correct me if I'm inaccurate).

Just my opinion. Food time.....

 

I don't eat for another 2+ hours I hate you all.

 

A few questions.

If you showed the customer the "knock" why can't you show it to the rest of us? Post the log and a clear dyno graph. From how I understand it the data log would CLEARY show the "knock" you heard and help others understand and the severity since the claim is so extreme. This thread is actually becoming VERY educational for the public and it would be beneficial to all of us.

Also, so which is it? You prefer to tune from scratch on an individual basis or yet you use other base tunes from similar set-ups and adjust?

 

Noone is ganging up on you man. Most are trying to get the information claimed and make the most educated analysis possible for ourselves, simple as that.

One says I hear knock..ok..well it's not hard to find given the data and technology now in the year 2007. I also have seen the sasquatch but I have no pictures. See our point?

 

Yes, I completely understand and awaiting future post to futher educate everyone subscribed to this thread. My remedy post will be must better to the fact of having more concrete data. Just need to find out the god honest truth and make sure car is running well so time will tell.

 

Didn't save any of the datalogs, as at the time I had no idea it would matter. It obvious to anyone who drives the car she's a knocking!

If I do not have a similar setup, I tune from scratch... If I've tuned a similar setup, I start out with a previous map I've tuned and thoroughly go over everything. I'll send you a PM on some other details I noted...

 

+1

I got minor things done in AAM and they treated me with great service and respect. (Clint, Mike, Frank... etc.)

I also went to FT dyno meet and Dave and Juan made me feel accepted even though I was one of the slowest Z there. They are awesome btw.

My point is just let Bryce do his own thing. As long as hes happy then so is MID-A!!

 

I still feel that he shoulda got with Dave first if he felt something was off since he did the tune. Just out of respect.

But it is his car and he can do as he pleases.

 

[QUOTE=Mike@Altered]Didn't save any of the datalogs, as at the time I had no idea it would matter. It obvious to anyone who drives the car she's a knocking!

how convenient...

 

Alright lets just let this thread die, AAM doesnt have anything to show from Bryce's visit so no reason for anymore arguing. so bryce, my advice would be that if your car is havin the problems, just talk to dave about them, he did the install and tune so hook up with him and let him check it out, he seems to be more than willin to help you out

 

GAME. SET. AND MATCH.

Thread dropped!

THANK YOU COME AGAIN!

 

Appreciate everyone's help and advice for my current situation. I am going to attempt to put this matter aside since my car is garaged at least just think for this weekend.