Question for you V8 people (Stangs/Camaros etc..)
06-19-2003, 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by Steve98TransAm
1) The term "F-body" is a frame code for GM's Camaros or Firebirds. Corvettes are Y-bodies". Cavaliers are "J-bodies". The list goes on and on. I'm sure this correllates to like Z33 for the 350Z, that is the chassis code right?
2) Ford has built 351c.i. engines before, as well as 427's, etc. For the mustang platform I'm not really sure why they went smaller from the 5.0 to the 4.6. Somebody like BlackDemon could probably answer that one.
3) I really like the '05 Mustang too.
1) The term "F-body" is a frame code for GM's Camaros or Firebirds. Corvettes are Y-bodies". Cavaliers are "J-bodies". The list goes on and on. I'm sure this correllates to like Z33 for the 350Z, that is the chassis code right?
2) Ford has built 351c.i. engines before, as well as 427's, etc. For the mustang platform I'm not really sure why they went smaller from the 5.0 to the 4.6. Somebody like BlackDemon could probably answer that one.
3) I really like the '05 Mustang too.
The 4.6 was put into the mustang for a few reasons , but the main two being the 4.6 could produce enough power to satisfy most Mustang enthuist and still be cheap enough to be mass produced.....
The main Reason they did not put the 5.4L DOHC engine in there is because of the cost...
At the time the 5.4 was very expensive to produce and would put the Cost of a Mustang out of reach for most potential buyers.
Now it looks as though the new updated Cobra in 2006 will recive the 5.4L DOHC engine with an Eaton Supercharger. 500HP is the educated guess so far on the Numbers, but until 2006 it's all speculation
06-19-2003, 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by BlackDemon
At the time the 5.4 was very expensive to produce and would put the Cost of a Mustang out of reach for most potential buyers.
Now it looks as though the new updated Cobra in 2006 will recive the 5.4L DOHC engine with an Eaton Supercharger. 500HP is the educated guess so far on the Numbers, but until 2006 it's all speculation [/B]
At the time the 5.4 was very expensive to produce and would put the Cost of a Mustang out of reach for most potential buyers.
Now it looks as though the new updated Cobra in 2006 will recive the 5.4L DOHC engine with an Eaton Supercharger. 500HP is the educated guess so far on the Numbers, but until 2006 it's all speculation
[/B]
06-19-2003, 03:09 PM
#83
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Originally posted by BlackDemon
The Mustangs were dropped in displacement because simply they wanted to move on from the 5.0 "old technology" as they put it, and move into OHC engines...
The 4.6 was put into the mustang for a few reasons , but the main two being the 4.6 could produce enough power to satisfy most Mustang enthuist and still be cheap enough to be mass produced.....
The main Reason they did not put the 5.4L DOHC engine in there is because of the cost...
At the time the 5.4 was very expensive to produce and would put the Cost of a Mustang out of reach for most potential buyers.
Now it looks as though the new updated Cobra in 2006 will recive the 5.4L DOHC engine with an Eaton Supercharger. 500HP is the educated guess so far on the Numbers, but until 2006 it's all speculation
The Mustangs were dropped in displacement because simply they wanted to move on from the 5.0 "old technology" as they put it, and move into OHC engines...
The 4.6 was put into the mustang for a few reasons , but the main two being the 4.6 could produce enough power to satisfy most Mustang enthuist and still be cheap enough to be mass produced.....
The main Reason they did not put the 5.4L DOHC engine in there is because of the cost...
At the time the 5.4 was very expensive to produce and would put the Cost of a Mustang out of reach for most potential buyers.
Now it looks as though the new updated Cobra in 2006 will recive the 5.4L DOHC engine with an Eaton Supercharger. 500HP is the educated guess so far on the Numbers, but until 2006 it's all speculation
06-19-2003, 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by red ink
They are putting a modular 5.0 in the new cars arent they? I doubt they will put they 5.4 in the new cars. I bet you they dont go with 500hp on the new cobras. What do you think they lighting is for?
They are putting a modular 5.0 in the new cars arent they? I doubt they will put they 5.4 in the new cars. I bet you they dont go with 500hp on the new cobras. What do you think they lighting is for?
nothing is for sure yet....
As for the 5.4 It will not make it into all Mustangs..
Only the Cobra..
As for the lightning...
You really don't think that Ford is going to let a truck be faster than it's premier Pony car now do you?
I'll try and dig up some links I had about the next gen Mustang..
06-19-2003, 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by TRMach1
Can't really agree with all that you're saying here. Cost-wise, it really isn't anymore expensive to produce the 5.4 than the 4.6. Ford wanted a new family of engines with parts that were interchangeable across the entire line, as opposed to having to build numerous engines that were unique to themselves. That is expensive. That's what allowed them to build the 4.6l that's in my Mach 1, using cams out of the 5.4l, they could mix and match different parts to taylor the kind of performance they desired, without having to retool new parts just for one engine family. The main reason the 5.4 didn't make it into the Mustang is because it's deck height is too high to fit the stock Mustang engine bay and hood! Look at the Cobra R's hood, that thing has that big bulge in it for a reason. With the new Mustang platform, it might be feasable to put the 5.4l in it, we'll just have to wait and see.
Can't really agree with all that you're saying here. Cost-wise, it really isn't anymore expensive to produce the 5.4 than the 4.6. Ford wanted a new family of engines with parts that were interchangeable across the entire line, as opposed to having to build numerous engines that were unique to themselves. That is expensive. That's what allowed them to build the 4.6l that's in my Mach 1, using cams out of the 5.4l, they could mix and match different parts to taylor the kind of performance they desired, without having to retool new parts just for one engine family. The main reason the 5.4 didn't make it into the Mustang is because it's deck height is too high to fit the stock Mustang engine bay and hood! Look at the Cobra R's hood, that thing has that big bulge in it for a reason. With the new Mustang platform, it might be feasable to put the 5.4l in it, we'll just have to wait and see.
ehh I don't know about that statement...
The main factor in the Price of the Cobra R was the 5.4L DOHC engine that was in it...
Fact is, it's an expensive engine to make.
Go look around for an 01 4.6 DOHC Cobra motor price brand new,
Then look for a 5.4 DOHC motor and check out the price difference..
It's not more expensive for no reason
As for the clearance issue, yes it had a little bit to do with it, but if Ford really wanted to put the 5.4 into all Mustangs they would not let a slight hood clearance problem stop them
06-19-2003, 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by Daytona Blue Z in Bo
How sweet would a 450Z be with the 340HP 333TQ V8 in it be?Maybe Tweaked to be higher for a high performance application say 350HP/350TQ? Sell it for say 40-44k with some exterior and suspension upgrades. It probably would be safe to say it would rival a corvette's acceleration numbers running close to 13 flat or better.
How sweet would a 450Z be with the 340HP 333TQ V8 in it be?Maybe Tweaked to be higher for a high performance application say 350HP/350TQ? Sell it for say 40-44k with some exterior and suspension upgrades. It probably would be safe to say it would rival a corvette's acceleration numbers running close to 13 flat or better.
06-19-2003, 09:35 PM
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Just thought i'd point out that Ford's "modular" is NOT unique to ford....the LS1 series of engines are in various forms from the 5.3L in the trucks to the 6.0L in the SUVs, to the 7.0 L C5-R race engine....these all have matching components that can be switched between engines.....same idea as what ford is using.
06-19-2003, 10:12 PM
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The Corvette is the premier car of GM. All new technology first comes out in the vette, and it is their flagship car. GM could make a bunch of em and sell them in bulk for cheap, and while the car would be easily bought it would not be highly desired.
with this being said why don't anyone think that the Z is the flagship therefore the price was bumped up??? Did anyone think of import tax?? The reason why I'm bringing this up because I keep reading ppl say the LS1 is sooooo much cheaper.... Is it??? How much for a new LS1? My friend at work just got his out the door for 26K....hummmm I got my Z out the door for 27K But lets not think of all the additional cost to bring the car into the States... Lets also not mention that there is a gentlemen’s agreement between Japan and US limiting most Japanese cars under 300HP. LS1s are Fast!!!!!!!!!!!!! Z's are fast, and nice looking and handles like a dream and you can drive the **** out of them. Tell me what you guys think
with this being said why don't anyone think that the Z is the flagship therefore the price was bumped up??? Did anyone think of import tax?? The reason why I'm bringing this up because I keep reading ppl say the LS1 is sooooo much cheaper.... Is it??? How much for a new LS1? My friend at work just got his out the door for 26K....hummmm I got my Z out the door for 27K But lets not think of all the additional cost to bring the car into the States... Lets also not mention that there is a gentlemen’s agreement between Japan and US limiting most Japanese cars under 300HP. LS1s are Fast!!!!!!!!!!!!! Z's are fast, and nice looking and handles like a dream and you can drive the **** out of them. Tell me what you guys think
06-19-2003, 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by RedRocketZ
The Corvette is the premier car of GM. All new technology first comes out in the vette, and it is their flagship car. GM could make a bunch of em and sell them in bulk for cheap, and while the car would be easily bought it would not be highly desired.
with this being said why don't anyone think that the Z is the flagship therefore the price was bumped up??? Did anyone think of import tax?? The reason why I'm bringing this up because I keep reading ppl say the LS1 is sooooo much cheaper.... Is it??? How much for a new LS1? My friend at work just got his out the door for 26K....hummmm I got my Z out the door for 27K But lets not think of all the additional cost to bring the car into the States... Lets also not mention that there is a gentlemen’s agreement between Japan and US limiting most Japanese cars under 300HP. LS1s are Fast!!!!!!!!!!!!! Z's are fast, and nice looking and handles like a dream and you can drive the **** out of them. Tell me what you guys think
The Corvette is the premier car of GM. All new technology first comes out in the vette, and it is their flagship car. GM could make a bunch of em and sell them in bulk for cheap, and while the car would be easily bought it would not be highly desired.
with this being said why don't anyone think that the Z is the flagship therefore the price was bumped up??? Did anyone think of import tax?? The reason why I'm bringing this up because I keep reading ppl say the LS1 is sooooo much cheaper.... Is it??? How much for a new LS1? My friend at work just got his out the door for 26K....hummmm I got my Z out the door for 27K But lets not think of all the additional cost to bring the car into the States... Lets also not mention that there is a gentlemen’s agreement between Japan and US limiting most Japanese cars under 300HP. LS1s are Fast!!!!!!!!!!!!! Z's are fast, and nice looking and handles like a dream and you can drive the **** out of them. Tell me what you guys think
06-20-2003, 01:17 AM
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Re: Question for you V8 people (Stangs/Camaros etc..)
Originally posted by Daytona Blue Z in Bo
I am basically starting this after reading the "I destroyed all" flame tread on this forum and a few others on racing, I am so tired of statements like this:
Quote:
And your point is what? You beat a V6 Camaro.....pat yourself on the back
So I am wondering the thought process is behind this?
Matching a Nissan V6 and a Chevy V6 is just not fair right?? Even with the larger displacement on Chevy's side and similiar car weight? You gotta make it a V8 before there is real competition and also 2.2 liters larger! I mean Pontiac has a 3.8 liter supercharged engine that only puts out 250HP, Nissan makes a 3.5 N/A that gets 287HP?!?
Note to Z members:
REMEMBER Z folks! Never compare american V6's to Nissan V6's, you get called lame for that!
"Congrats on beating a 6 cyl Mustang "
This is such a silly statement concidering its a larger V6 engine (3.8 if I remember correctly). If you proportionally increase the HP of a 350z engine 2.2 liters it would in Theory produce 467HP (just for sake of argument).. So all you LS1 or V8 people should realize this..
I just had to get this out, It annoys the heck out of me seeing sarcasim for beating a larger V6 engine as if you were talking about beating 4 cyc geo metro or something. Do you realize in size the Nissan 3.5 V6 is to a 1.3 liter 4 banger engine as a Nissan 3.5 V6 is to a Chevy V8 5.7??
How come is doesn't work this way when you 5.7 folks beat a say... umm... a 3.5 liter V6 Z??
"O big deal, you beat a V6 Nissan.. "
I think this is a funny topic and the reason why I posted this here is because it is about racing, and its basically where the V8 people run about. I have no prob with the V8 people or anything, but I think this is a double standard if I ever seen one.
PS. I do know that Mustang GT's etc have 4.6 V8's, no need to compare both engines, its a point I was trying to make so I used the Chevy V8 (for you people waiting to flame).
I am basically starting this after reading the "I destroyed all" flame tread on this forum and a few others on racing, I am so tired of statements like this:
Quote:
And your point is what? You beat a V6 Camaro.....pat yourself on the back
So I am wondering the thought process is behind this?
Matching a Nissan V6 and a Chevy V6 is just not fair right?? Even with the larger displacement on Chevy's side and similiar car weight? You gotta make it a V8 before there is real competition and also 2.2 liters larger! I mean Pontiac has a 3.8 liter supercharged engine that only puts out 250HP, Nissan makes a 3.5 N/A that gets 287HP?!?
Note to Z members:
REMEMBER Z folks! Never compare american V6's to Nissan V6's, you get called lame for that!
"Congrats on beating a 6 cyl Mustang
"This is such a silly statement concidering its a larger V6 engine (3.8 if I remember correctly). If you proportionally increase the HP of a 350z engine 2.2 liters it would in Theory produce 467HP (just for sake of argument).. So all you LS1 or V8 people should realize this..
I just had to get this out, It annoys the heck out of me seeing sarcasim for beating a larger V6 engine as if you were talking about beating 4 cyc geo metro or something. Do you realize in size the Nissan 3.5 V6 is to a 1.3 liter 4 banger engine as a Nissan 3.5 V6 is to a Chevy V8 5.7??
How come is doesn't work this way when you 5.7 folks beat a say... umm... a 3.5 liter V6 Z??
"O big deal, you beat a V6 Nissan..
"I think this is a funny topic and the reason why I posted this here is because it is about racing, and its basically where the V8 people run about. I have no prob with the V8 people or anything, but I think this is a double standard if I ever seen one.
PS. I do know that Mustang GT's etc have 4.6 V8's, no need to compare both engines, its a point I was trying to make so I used the Chevy V8 (for you people waiting to flame).
Also, why does displacement have to be the limiter? wouldn't engine weight, size and so on be a better choice? all the more credit to you if you can pack a 7L in a 6L's place. I'll admit comparing 2 cars of different displacements isn't exactly proper, but you have to look at what the cars were built for. They can't be too fast stock or they'll have government and insurance problems. The power potential is basically the determining factor when it comes to engine size, going off stock performance is a pretty poor comparison.
06-20-2003, 05:06 AM
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Re: Re: Question for you V8 people (Stangs/Camaros etc..)
Originally posted by FYRHWK1
In essence you could be considered right, V6 to V6 is a fair comparison, we all know the LS1 has more power potential simply because its larger, all of its technical marvels aside. Thing about the V6 Fbodies is, they COULD perform with the Z, if they were made to. Fact is the V6 is a low cost, non performance option, they're not made to perform and it shows, the Z is made to perform with a V6 and that too shows. The V6 Fbody COULD run with a Z factory if GM put some effort into it, all NA and so on, to doubt the 3.8L V6 is ignorance, it's got potential, i'm not saying you are i'm just pointing out it could be more then it is.
Also, why does displacement have to be the limiter? wouldn't engine weight, size and so on be a better choice? all the more credit to you if you can pack a 7L in a 6L's place. I'll admit comparing 2 cars of different displacements isn't exactly proper, but you have to look at what the cars were built for. They can't be too fast stock or they'll have government and insurance problems. The power potential is basically the determining factor when it comes to engine size, going off stock performance is a pretty poor comparison.
In essence you could be considered right, V6 to V6 is a fair comparison, we all know the LS1 has more power potential simply because its larger, all of its technical marvels aside. Thing about the V6 Fbodies is, they COULD perform with the Z, if they were made to. Fact is the V6 is a low cost, non performance option, they're not made to perform and it shows, the Z is made to perform with a V6 and that too shows. The V6 Fbody COULD run with a Z factory if GM put some effort into it, all NA and so on, to doubt the 3.8L V6 is ignorance, it's got potential, i'm not saying you are i'm just pointing out it could be more then it is.
Also, why does displacement have to be the limiter? wouldn't engine weight, size and so on be a better choice? all the more credit to you if you can pack a 7L in a 6L's place. I'll admit comparing 2 cars of different displacements isn't exactly proper, but you have to look at what the cars were built for. They can't be too fast stock or they'll have government and insurance problems. The power potential is basically the determining factor when it comes to engine size, going off stock performance is a pretty poor comparison.
06-20-2003, 05:40 AM
#92
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Re: Re: Re: Question for you V8 people (Stangs/Camaros etc..)
Originally posted by jooklum99
It almost seems that the better (faster) cars are built by the company with the WORST lawyers.
It almost seems that the better (faster) cars are built by the company with the WORST lawyers.
Thats probably the truth too.
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