yusoslo

iTrader: (4)

I want to know how you did the side emblems like that? Just painted over or are they bought like that?

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

I got them from Courtesy Nissan

crg914

iTrader: (5)

Do we have any videos or sound clips yet? I want to see this thing in action!

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

hopefully this weekend if the weather holds up here! I got the camcorder mount, and I just picked up this neat little "box" that lets me connect my Digital 8 camcorder right to my laptop (converts the firewire output to a USB), and gives me full editing ability as well. I've never done any sort of stuff like this but I've been using it all week to get the hang of it, and so far so good!

Studah

Damn that motor is so badass

TheJerk

What are the new plans for this? You should try dynoing on a Different dyno, and why didn't you use a Rev-up collector. Proven High RPM power capability..

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

The plans? Not really much I could do even I wanted to. I have a Cosworth manifold coming, and we'll put it through it's paces to see if we realize any gains. Other than that, and perhaps trying to reverse engineer some larger drive by wire throttle body into the mix (which I don't even know if I need at this point), and some custom long tube header, there really is nothing else I even could do.

Redyno on a different dyno? Why? If it makes the power I want on a Dyno Dynamics, that's all I care about !

A revup collector is proven power on an otherwise stock car...there was absolutely no benefit in using it with my setup though (we played around with both extensively, and found the non revup one would yield the broader power band, and given that this is a street car, is what we decided to go with). When you put them stock vs stock on the bench, yes, the revup one yields a bit more upstairs (not much). When you start playing with each, those differences are all but eliminated. Trust me, with the amount of time we have into this build, rest assured every part was researched to the enth degree, and nothing was left to chance. I wanted to ultimate NA car, and with a few more tweaks, I'll be there Does it look like my car is choking on the top end?

TheJerk

I've never personally been a fan of DD dynos compared to Dynapacks. I think your cams are weak, and I KNOW the Non-revup collector, even machined, loses power over a Revup collector. http://www.importtuner.com/tech/powe.../photo_05.html

Mrev2 = nonrev collector.

I also think that you should take a look at the head, and cam angles on the car. I'm no tuner, but I do think you should be squeezing out more power on those camshafts than what your putting down. This build seems very mild for the amount of work put into it. NOT to diminish what you have accomplished, but, I do think the VQ has a long way to go as far as after market development. What did you guys use to tune the car? Have you looked into the new software from Orisis? (I think that's what its called)

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

Not quite!

The MREV = non-revup collector

MREV2 = machined non-revup collector

Kwame

iTrader: (78)

I think you have completely missed the entire point of this build. The point of this build, actually the point of everything associated with this exact car, is balance. This car is setup up perfectly. This car is enjoyable at every rpm level and that is exactly what Adam was trying to accomplish.

So I will now take the time to answer your post. The cams are not "weak," they can be called mild at worst. Sure he could have chosen more aggressive cams but then his powerband would not be as broad as it is now without the use of VTC pullies (which still to this day is not an easy thing to tune unless you use an engine management software that is way more expensive than the UTEC). He
Is not trying to build a car that only shines in the higher RPMs once again he was/has built a balanced car. In addition, even slightly more aggressive cams would have increased the cost of this build a couple thousand dollars more (machining, valvetrain upgrades, etc.) Another thing to remember, this build was two years in the making. Most of the options that are available today were not avaialable when Adam was making his purchases. Not saying he would have changed anything but it is something to keep in mind when you look at what products he choose for his build.

As far as your comments pertaining to the lower collector and the heads. First, if you look at Adams post maybe one or two ahead of yours you will see that he took both a revup and non-revup lower collector up to his machinist during his build and only after extensive labor hours playing with both on the flow bench it was decided that the modified non-revup lower collector would yeild better results for Adam's setup. The upper, middle and lower plenum was modified on Adam's car. Material was added in some spots and removed in others to optimize flow and air velocity. The heads themselves are a work of art and they are probably the biggest contributer to the success of this project. Trust me you could, and I think some already have, take Adam's list of equipment and through them in another set of heads modfied or un-modfied and you would not yeild the same results.

In closing, I think you should step away from the "magazine racing" type of mentality of building cars. Just because you use the most aggressive or most extreme products in your engine build does not necessarily mean everything will work together in unison to get the most out of your engine. Another thing to remember is that a car with a nice fat powerband and a lot of power under the curve (a very smooth curve might I add ) is A LOT more fun to drive than a car with a very narrow powerband and higher peak numbers. This car has been well planned and thought out by both Adam and his machinist from the onset. Adam has not shown everything this motor has and he has said it numerous times in this thread when he gets some free time he will go back and tune for more power, which a lot of us know there is a lot more to be had then what we have seen so far.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

You're quoting Import Tuner as a source of info? I'm quoting a Superflow machine with all the trimmings, and the ~30 years of build experience my machinist has. I sent him both collectors prior to starting the work...we used what he said was best given my wants and needs. After port work was completed, the std original non revup collector worked best for us. When you do your build, you're free to use what you want There are ALOT of hours into the motor build.

My cams are not weak - my cams are ideal for what I wanted. What are you basing your 'weak' claim on? The duration and lift #'s? Those numbers tell you absolutely......nothing, in the long run. There is alot more to cam high lift and long duration figures, and getting it right is something most people don't do, regardless of the platform. You have to remember that this build was not put together on a whim either, it was over a year and a half in the works. At the time they were acquired, the Tomei cams were the most aggressive grind they offered, and again, had the ramp angles we wanted, yet did so without the need for adjustable VTC. Which brings me to another point. The UTEC, which I have run since winter 2005 (mine was one of the tester units), does not have the ability to control VTC, and as such, we had to pick cams that would play nicely with the stock angles. The cams work quite well for what I wanted, as does the UTEC - I have no need to change anything.

I'm not getting into a dyno debate, it's useless. You can use what you want, I'll use what I want. What I will say is that a Dynapack is always, always overly optimistic relative to other dyno's out there. If I had showed some inflated sheet based on a Dynpack, no one here would take it seriously. I'd rather make 303 whp on a dyno that everyone knows tends to read on the low side, and have that be my benchmark to work from. I want to know what my car makes in real world #'s as it sits - not with smaller wheels, or no wheels, etc. My car dyno'd 224 whp as I recall on a Dynojet when it was new and bone stock(248C). This car today would put down ~ 100 whp more as it sits right now, on pump gas - those are #s you can bank on, and adding 100 whp NA, on pump gas, is no small net change.

From a parts standpoint, the build itself is very mild - that's what I wanted. I was not interested in eeking every last NA hp out of the car, I wanted a car that was balanced, where all parts work with one another seamlessly. Moreso than almost any other car on this forum, I've achieved that, in all respects. This car has alot of work into it, even without the motor. But it's all done relatively subtely, in a very understared fashion, and that is what I am all about. All the mods used for the engine are on page 1 of this thread. From a labor standpoint, we've never spent more time with a motor than this one - and this is not the first motor I've had built (more than I can count at this point!) But what we've learned will only help up us down the road with Kwame's motor

Osirus software will not give me any benefits, aside from me shedding the ~3 lbs a UTEC weighs. I have no use for it, it's not going to net me anymore power than I have right now, and I'd rather use what I know, and what has proven itself to work for me. If I were ever to switch to a new ecu in the future, it would only be based on outgrowing the current one - which I don't see happening, and it would be in the form of a full standalone. But I have no plans for this at all

TheJerk

That I can agree with.

TheJerk

For the record, I believe Dynapacks are the most accurate dynos available. Preference I guess.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

Is there power left on the table with more radical cams? Sure - at the expense of driveability, and requiring parts that are not made anymore (NISMO VTC pullies), a new ecu, engine removal, head dismanting, refitting, retuning) - no thanks. Too expensive, too much work, and I don't see the need. I already know I could pick up more whp simply with another trip to the dyno, as we're running a very conservative timing map right now as well. But, I don't have the time nor desire to constantly be going back and forth to the dyno with the car, so I'll just wait to do that until the Cosworth manifold is in my hands and do the changes then.

I am talking like what? This is by no means as far as it can go, and not once, ever, have I posted any such thing. What my build proves is one thing - the performance and results of ANY modded car are more than the sum of its parts. Parts only gets you so far, and the best parts on paper do not equal a properly setup car.

You can side with whomever you want, I could care less I gave a bevy of parts to my builder when we started this. I sent him 3, yes 3 sets of cams to play with (Tomei, Nismo Spec 1 and Esprit), as well as standard and revup collectors. I also informed him of the NISMO VTC availability (at the time) should he deem them necessary. He used what he felt would be my best choice given what I told him I wanted out of the car. If he felt one would be a significant difference vs another, it would be in my car already. I didn't give him parts and say "here, put it together". Instead, I gave him my wants, gave him free reign to select whatever he wanted, and he told me what parts he wanted to see.

This is not a motor we sell, nor will we sell - it is simply a documented look at the build on my car.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

well then given what I know about Dynapacks to Dyno Dynamics, you're looking at a 320-330 whp car on a Dynapack then. I'd rather come back and say I made 330 whp on a Dyno Dynamics, than on a Dynapack, especially to this community, who takes dyno #'s very seriously. At the end of the day, a dyno is a tool - there is no better tool, or worse tool, there are simply variations of the same general type of tool.

hunter6

iTrader: (3)

Ouch...that hurt...I was hoping....

Kwame

iTrader: (78)

You could always offer to purchase the entire car for the right price.

hunter6

iTrader: (3)

Yes...yes I could...but I love mine...oh the humanity!

__jb

iTrader: (3)

Any updates on your new project?

You are going to remain NA, too... Right?

accordfreak

iTrader: (15)

video?