Tease. (Cams)
07-04-2010, 08:27 PM
#61
Very true, each set of cams probably takes the better part of a day to install not to mention if the shop is actually working on customer cars. Also, ideally they would probably try to get similar temps and air conditions... all and all very time consuming.
Last edited by Zazz93; 07-08-2010 at 10:16 PM.
07-04-2010, 11:18 PM
#62
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I just got the headers on. The cams will get done in August.
Yeah, I guess it will take time to do a study. Maybe we were anticipating regular installments on Modified from the test. We will just have to settle for the greater Phoenix area "Tuner Shootout". Cool to see the local guys getting National attention.
Yeah, I guess it will take time to do a study. Maybe we were anticipating regular installments on Modified from the test. We will just have to settle for the greater Phoenix area "Tuner Shootout". Cool to see the local guys getting National attention.
07-08-2010, 05:42 PM
#63
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if you remote mount the radiator
and dont put the bottom 2 12mm bolts (the ones in the oil pan) back in, cams can be swapped out and new ones in about 2 hours... that is to say if you dont have to swap springs... if engine accessories are left off (AC, P/S, Alt) then the time can be faster... its not like the car will be driven with each cam... just strap it on the dyno and do all the work with the car in one spot!!!
besides the test is already done... and the gag order is until modified publishes the results
07-08-2010, 06:44 PM
#64
well if they are using new cams there will be a break in period on startup that would require more time. Also doing work while strapped to the dyno isn't easy or fun.
but yes your solution would cut down on install times significantly, not sure how I would feel about leaving those bolts out, even for just a couple dyno pulls.
but yes your solution would cut down on install times significantly, not sure how I would feel about leaving those bolts out, even for just a couple dyno pulls.
07-09-2010, 08:58 PM
#65
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the bolts that bolt the oilpan to the front cover really isnt that big of a deal... and if you what problems would there be while working on a dyno??? front straps??? take them off to do the work... or use dynapacks... NEways the point is that the holdup is MODIFIED magazine... primedia sucks!!!
07-11-2010, 08:35 AM
#68
the bolts that bolt the oilpan to the front cover really isnt that big of a deal... and if you what problems would there be while working on a dyno??? front straps??? take them off to do the work... or use dynapacks... NEways the point is that the holdup is MODIFIED magazine... primedia sucks!!!
I guess I'd have to be very comfortable with my skills to do a cam swap on the dyno. Also, I'd want to drive the car around with each set to see how it feels, dynos don't tell you everything IMO
07-11-2010, 08:42 AM
#69
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why would you drain oil and coolant???? it is a cam swap... and I already discussed how to bypass those steps... no need to drain oil because the oil pan dosent need to come off with the bottom two bolts off.... no need to drain coolant with a remote mounted radiator (which you would put water in anyways... water displaces heat better than coolant and if you spill, no big deal)... cams are on top of the engine, so I don't know why the use of a jack is neccessary... I guess if you want to do extra work I don't want to rain on your parade... and the comparison is not how the cams compare "feel" dynos don't lie especialy when all dynos are done on the same dyno
07-11-2010, 09:08 AM
#70
Didn't say dyno's LIE, just said they don't tell you everything about how the car feels..
as far as I know you still have to remove the front timing cover which has oil flowing through it. Which would mean draining the oil would keep you from getting too messy.
didn't even think of just loading coolant up with water but you are right that would save time / mess
as far as I know you still have to remove the front timing cover which has oil flowing through it. Which would mean draining the oil would keep you from getting too messy.
didn't even think of just loading coolant up with water but you are right that would save time / mess
07-11-2010, 09:18 AM
#71
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if the front of the car is not on the car it would save you alot of time... there is nothing needed other than the radiator for the radiator support so take it off and have the radiator on the outside of the car and oil sits in the oil pan when it is off... draining the oil dosent get the oil out of the IVT sprokets or out of the valleys in the head or out of the timing chain... draing the oil I do last incase some silicone fell into the pan then it will come out with the oil... Im sure silicone was used very minimaly so cleanup should have been easy
07-11-2010, 12:19 PM
#73
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why would you drain oil and coolant???? it is a cam swap... and I already discussed how to bypass those steps... no need to drain oil because the oil pan dosent need to come off with the bottom two bolts off.... no need to drain coolant with a remote mounted radiator (which you would put water in anyways... water displaces heat better than coolant and if you spill, no big deal)... cams are on top of the engine, so I don't know why the use of a jack is neccessary... I guess if you want to do extra work I don't want to rain on your parade... and the comparison is not how the cams compare "feel" dynos don't lie especialy when all dynos are done on the same dyno
Not to mention, Sasha has a shop to run....in between his racing stuff, and his business stuff is this cam test. Tell me what you're priority would be? There are only 24 hours in a day.
Sasha has access to a dynapak - I presume that is what you will see being used for the test when the results are published
The easiest way is just to do the test on an engine dyno. Not sure if he has access to one or not. Doing a test like this with a running car will be time consuming. I've been involved in such tests before, it can be exhausting....and doing it on a Z, where an in car cam swap is not exactly a fun way to spend a day, makes it even more difficult.
Anyway suggestions aside, it is what it is. Personally, I would not have bothered announcing the test was even being done until the results were in the bag and the first issue was ready to hit the stands.
Overall though, can you blame a magazine that conducts a test such as this to release the results, or any clues as to the results (assuming the results even exist at this point in time), to release the results of the test before the issue hits the stands?
07-11-2010, 03:45 PM
#74
I wouldn't doubt he has already finished the testing. He did two of the cam sets in the first couple of days after announcing the test (three months ago). I'm on the band-wagon that Modified Mag has delayed the article and thus the gag order remains. Bottom-line... Sasha hasn't let us down before and I don't see him starting now, the test will be worth the wait.
07-11-2010, 08:08 PM
#75
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there are no "tips"... do it the same way everyone else does it... take it apart until you get to the part you want to change.... then put it back together... oh and read and understand instructions b4 you start... then rip it apart
07-12-2010, 08:18 PM
#76
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how about throwing some Brian Crower cam testing in there. . .both types. . .that's all i've wanted to see for quite some time was that combination of SG's HR headers and BC camshafts. . .speaking of the HR headers. . .?
Last edited by 504Z07; 07-12-2010 at 08:20 PM.
07-13-2010, 07:24 AM
#79
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As this is a camshaft power comparison test being done for a Magazine & entails a lot of work to strip out, refit the camshafts & set the clearances ect, it is a great pity that you are not going to use new generation camshafts.
The chosen camshafts were all released over 7 years ago & even their makers ( Tomei & JWT ) only publish small increases in power in their advertised literature.
The 3 camshafts sets have aprox the same lift as the revup cams & only between 8 & 12 deg of increased duration over a revup.
As this test is to be done on a race motor, wouldn't it be a far more interesting test for both the Magazine & this site readers if the camshafts selected were of a more later release
In my opinion a test of Brian Crowers 272, Kelford 283, Nismo S1 or 2, JWT C8 or 9, Cosworth , Tomei 272 or 280? & GTM would be better
All of these cams have lift of 11.5 or above & would be what most 350Z owners would consider today if they were going to the expense of fitting.
I think you as a racecar owner would also have more interest in the later generation of camshafts
While I realize that there is a huge cost in buying the camshafts I have mentioned, maybe just maybe some of the vendors on this site could be persuaded to donate some sets (to be resold later @ a discount) or that we the members of my350Z could donate a few $ each for what I consider would be of huge interest.
Is the cam comparo being done on your new HC motor?
If so, even more reason to choose higher spec cams considering the huge effort that you have put in with intake & header experiments
Either way it turns out, Good Luck
The chosen camshafts were all released over 7 years ago & even their makers ( Tomei & JWT ) only publish small increases in power in their advertised literature.
The 3 camshafts sets have aprox the same lift as the revup cams & only between 8 & 12 deg of increased duration over a revup.
As this test is to be done on a race motor, wouldn't it be a far more interesting test for both the Magazine & this site readers if the camshafts selected were of a more later release
In my opinion a test of Brian Crowers 272, Kelford 283, Nismo S1 or 2, JWT C8 or 9, Cosworth , Tomei 272 or 280? & GTM would be better
All of these cams have lift of 11.5 or above & would be what most 350Z owners would consider today if they were going to the expense of fitting.
I think you as a racecar owner would also have more interest in the later generation of camshafts
While I realize that there is a huge cost in buying the camshafts I have mentioned, maybe just maybe some of the vendors on this site could be persuaded to donate some sets (to be resold later @ a discount) or that we the members of my350Z could donate a few $ each for what I consider would be of huge interest.
Is the cam comparo being done on your new HC motor?
If so, even more reason to choose higher spec cams considering the huge effort that you have put in with intake & header experiments
Either way it turns out, Good Luck
07-13-2010, 09:27 AM
#80
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Problem is that all those cams would require a built block as well due to piston clearances, and that is not what is being used for the test according to Sasha
Damned if you do, damned if you don't - if you do a full out "race" motor, people complain that they want to see a more realistic build without all the exotic stuff. If you do a more realistic build, people complain that the parts are too plain jane. The parts are being done in the race car, which Sasha says has a stock revup motor IIRC, so that limits your cam choices significantly. As much as we would love to think people are interested in the results of the crazier cams out there, the net return for a vendor would be next to nill IMHO. Believe me, I'd love to see it, don't get me wrong. The first motor of this type we've seen built through a magazine was through Cosworth about a year and a half ago. I don't think we ever saw what numbers that engine put to the ground (though they did show engine dyno results), and I don't know if Cosworth can say that they sold more of those components as a result of participating in the first place....even though the results sure made for a sweet motor. They didn't spare any expense and used some very neat stuff. The level of people who realistically will build such a motor are not going to do so based upon what a series of magazine articles say (IMHO), because the biggest barrier to entry is the net cost of such a project in the first place. I think the people who are going to seriously build such a motor are doing so of their own volition.
That being said, as anyone who knows anything about cams knows, the advertised lift and duration only tell you a small part of the story - and in and of themselves really have no predication of results
Damned if you do, damned if you don't - if you do a full out "race" motor, people complain that they want to see a more realistic build without all the exotic stuff. If you do a more realistic build, people complain that the parts are too plain jane. The parts are being done in the race car, which Sasha says has a stock revup motor IIRC, so that limits your cam choices significantly. As much as we would love to think people are interested in the results of the crazier cams out there, the net return for a vendor would be next to nill IMHO. Believe me, I'd love to see it, don't get me wrong. The first motor of this type we've seen built through a magazine was through Cosworth about a year and a half ago. I don't think we ever saw what numbers that engine put to the ground (though they did show engine dyno results), and I don't know if Cosworth can say that they sold more of those components as a result of participating in the first place....even though the results sure made for a sweet motor. They didn't spare any expense and used some very neat stuff. The level of people who realistically will build such a motor are not going to do so based upon what a series of magazine articles say (IMHO), because the biggest barrier to entry is the net cost of such a project in the first place. I think the people who are going to seriously build such a motor are doing so of their own volition.
That being said, as anyone who knows anything about cams knows, the advertised lift and duration only tell you a small part of the story - and in and of themselves really have no predication of results
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 07-13-2010 at 09:58 AM.