Just when you think you are done spending money...
03-28-2011, 11:17 AM
#1
Just when you think you are done spending money...
Well, I literately just finished installing my suspension I have been waiting for months to finally get it all together. Finally installed it all and took it to the alignment shop to get it aligned, drove back to my place, dropped off some stuff, on the way to the gas station, I was going 145ish (ya ya ya, I shouldn't do that on roads) and I noticed that the rpms were staying the same, and speed was dropping off... heard a ticking at the gas station but thought something might have been loose on my new suspension. Made it back to my friend's place and left the motor running and got out and there it was, my motor knocking away... I do drive the **** out of my car and I can't really say I didn't expect it, but it was sooner than I thought. So, just when I thought I spent the last dollar on modifying my 350z, the motor is giving up. So here I am in the NA forum, about to do a NA build on my daily driver. Nothing too crazy though. Here is a basic list
Wiseco Pistons 11.0:1 Ceramic/Moly Coated
Eagle Rods
JWT C8 272 cams w/springs
ATI Fluid Dampner crank pulley
Rev up Oil pump
ARP Head Studs
Along with all the bearings (coated), gaskets and machine work that is involved with a rebuild.
Balanced and blueprinted
CD009 Transmission (have one collecting dust)
ALSO, I was wondering what areas I should look into to make it safe to rev to 8,000 and if I should go to a rev up lower plenum
And ball parking from my previous dyno of 269.1hp/249tq I am hoping for 315+hp and I am not really sure what to expect from torque. Previous dyno had the following mods
-OBX Longtube headers
-Ebay HKS knockoff exhaust
-Z1 Angled Plenum Spacer
-ported lower manifold, lower plenum, upper plenum and polished TB
-Fujita Intake
-tuned by uprev themselves in Austin TX
-JWT clutch/flywheel
Wiseco Pistons 11.0:1 Ceramic/Moly Coated
Eagle Rods
JWT C8 272 cams w/springs
ATI Fluid Dampner crank pulley
Rev up Oil pump
ARP Head Studs
Along with all the bearings (coated), gaskets and machine work that is involved with a rebuild.
Balanced and blueprinted
CD009 Transmission (have one collecting dust)
ALSO, I was wondering what areas I should look into to make it safe to rev to 8,000 and if I should go to a rev up lower plenum
And ball parking from my previous dyno of 269.1hp/249tq I am hoping for 315+hp and I am not really sure what to expect from torque. Previous dyno had the following mods
-OBX Longtube headers
-Ebay HKS knockoff exhaust
-Z1 Angled Plenum Spacer
-ported lower manifold, lower plenum, upper plenum and polished TB
-Fujita Intake
-tuned by uprev themselves in Austin TX
-JWT clutch/flywheel
Last edited by Classy; 12-08-2011 at 09:16 AM.
03-28-2011, 11:55 AM
#2
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RPM's stayed the same but speed dropped off, sounds more like the clutch is letting go.
03-28-2011, 01:16 PM
#4
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you sound fairly knowledgeable, so i assume you may have thot of this already....but i still gotta say. theres alot of things the VQ does that sound "kinda" like rod knock.
Even detonation and misfire sounds like rod knock at 4k.
Now sitting and idling..not sure.... may still be clutch issues... rod knock is more audbile from under the car than above..try that.. may save yourself a crap load of money.
pull your plugs.. see if theres oil in the tubes etc.. etc etc.. but id jack it up and listen underneath before i bought new engine internals.
Even detonation and misfire sounds like rod knock at 4k.
Now sitting and idling..not sure.... may still be clutch issues... rod knock is more audbile from under the car than above..try that.. may save yourself a crap load of money.
pull your plugs.. see if theres oil in the tubes etc.. etc etc.. but id jack it up and listen underneath before i bought new engine internals.
Last edited by bmccann101; 03-28-2011 at 01:19 PM.
03-29-2011, 10:30 AM
#6
Clutch is still fairly new, the sound is very audible at idle, but speeds up as I rev it, I am not trying to dick with it too much, just too much of a chance of having a catastrophic failure. It is loud, you can hear it in the car, and you can feel it when you put your hand on the intake manifold. There are 73k miles on it, and I have been having oil issues with it, not leaking anywhere, but it has been burning about 2+ quarts of oil every 3k miles. The oil was only 300 miles old when it happened and it is still full on oil right now.
I do plan on pulling the plugs, and letting them tell the story hopefully and also doing a compression test, I have been on a bit of a vacation and have been kinda lazy about finding out specifics.
ANYWHO, I hate buying package deal stuff, BUT, I saw this on Z1motorsports.
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=4265
and possibly this, I am actually aiming for this one because I do want ARP hardware and the valve seals arn't a bad idea either since I might have messed up a valve or 2 if it is valve on piston contact.
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=4266
I do plan on pulling the plugs, and letting them tell the story hopefully and also doing a compression test, I have been on a bit of a vacation and have been kinda lazy about finding out specifics.
ANYWHO, I hate buying package deal stuff, BUT, I saw this on Z1motorsports.
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=4265
and possibly this, I am actually aiming for this one because I do want ARP hardware and the valve seals arn't a bad idea either since I might have messed up a valve or 2 if it is valve on piston contact.
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=4266
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03-29-2011, 05:10 PM
#8
I really doubt my car would be knocking because of vacuum, but eh, I am already knee deep in the build, like I said, I was kinda planning it anyways and it excites me to have a motor and tranny I can trust to put through it's paces rather than one that worries me. I purchased the cams today and tomorrow the rest should be purchased.
03-29-2011, 06:58 PM
#13
Clutch is still fairly new, the sound is very audible at idle, but speeds up as I rev it, I am not trying to dick with it too much, just too much of a chance of having a catastrophic failure. It is loud, you can hear it in the car, and you can feel it when you put your hand on the intake manifold. There are 73k miles on it, and I have been having oil issues with it, not leaking anywhere, but it has been burning about 2+ quarts of oil every 3k miles. The oil was only 300 miles old when it happened and it is still full on oil right now.
I do plan on pulling the plugs, and letting them tell the story hopefully and also doing a compression test, I have been on a bit of a vacation and have been kinda lazy about finding out specifics.
ANYWHO, I hate buying package deal stuff, BUT, I saw this on Z1motorsports.
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=4265
and possibly this, I am actually aiming for this one because I do want ARP hardware and the valve seals arn't a bad idea either since I might have messed up a valve or 2 if it is valve on piston contact.
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=4266
I do plan on pulling the plugs, and letting them tell the story hopefully and also doing a compression test, I have been on a bit of a vacation and have been kinda lazy about finding out specifics.
ANYWHO, I hate buying package deal stuff, BUT, I saw this on Z1motorsports.
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=4265
and possibly this, I am actually aiming for this one because I do want ARP hardware and the valve seals arn't a bad idea either since I might have messed up a valve or 2 if it is valve on piston contact.
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=4266
Which kit did you go with?
03-29-2011, 07:37 PM
#14
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Was this ever verified??? I remember reading about the crank itself doing damage to the pulley due to the lightweight material of the pulley but I have never heard of the pulley doing damage to the "motor." Can you elaborate? I'm getting my information from Adam from Z1 Na build were the pulley was notched...but that was a fully built engine at over 8k rpm...and from what I remember the crank avoided damaged he just trashed the pulley...
03-29-2011, 08:56 PM
#15
^ Check my edit above.
It's a topic that has been discussed a lot over the years, especially in the FI section. Here's a few quotes that discuss the risks and arguments against running an undampened crank pulley such as the UR pulley, as well as the reasons/benefits for running an ATI or Fluidampr crank pulley.
The UR pulley just isn't worth the risk IMO, especially if the OP is building his motor.
It's a topic that has been discussed a lot over the years, especially in the FI section. Here's a few quotes that discuss the risks and arguments against running an undampened crank pulley such as the UR pulley, as well as the reasons/benefits for running an ATI or Fluidampr crank pulley.
fluidamper or the ATI damper are both great units.
there are torsional vibraqtions and harmonics that occur due to the forces applied duing each combustion process in each cylinder. These devices are designed to absorb the vibrations. these vibrations can cause major fluctuations in valve timing and can ultimately cause a crank failure.
there are torsional vibraqtions and harmonics that occur due to the forces applied duing each combustion process in each cylinder. These devices are designed to absorb the vibrations. these vibrations can cause major fluctuations in valve timing and can ultimately cause a crank failure.
good luck proving a dampner or lack thereof destroyed the engine. just run one, who cares about the wimpy power gains from running an aluminum one. it isnt worth any potential risk. if a solid metal pully was adequate, why didnt our car come with one? surely it would be a lot easier to make a plain solid one than to put a dampner in it.
From memory (which is poor), the ATI uses 9 bolts, all loctighted and 6 of them are taper heads for more sealing surface. I don't have any fear of it coming apart, and it is serviceable for long life. Having used both, the ATI is my preference though I personally run a Fluidampr on my car. You can't lose with either of them.
Completely necessary - that is up to you all. I would advise using one on a built motor, and heavily advise against the unorthodox-style crank pulley on a built motor.
Completely necessary - that is up to you all. I would advise using one on a built motor, and heavily advise against the unorthodox-style crank pulley on a built motor.
The UR pulley just isn't worth the risk IMO, especially if the OP is building his motor.
03-30-2011, 03:37 AM
#16
I completely agree, I was going through my head yesterday about everything I need to do to build a high revving motor, and flipping through some sites, I saw the ATI and I felt dumb for not thinking about it! No, there is no solid proof that an all aluminium pulley will damage your engine, and I still feel that for someone who is just bolting on a few things, that it isn't that big of a deal. BUT if you go FI or raise your redline like I am, then the roll of the pulley to balance your crank is much more needed.
I am probably going to pull the trigger on the Z1 stage 3 motor rebuild kit today,
Wiseco Pistons 11:1
Piston Ring set
Wrist pins
Eagle Rods with caps
Cometic Head Gaskets (stock thickness)
ACL Engine Bearings (Rods, Mains, Thrust)
ARP Head And Main Stud Kits
Z1 Viton Valve Seals
and find an ATI pulley today probably too.
I am probably going to pull the trigger on the Z1 stage 3 motor rebuild kit today,
Wiseco Pistons 11:1
Piston Ring set
Wrist pins
Eagle Rods with caps
Cometic Head Gaskets (stock thickness)
ACL Engine Bearings (Rods, Mains, Thrust)
ARP Head And Main Stud Kits
Z1 Viton Valve Seals
and find an ATI pulley today probably too.
