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Intake restriction on my freshly built NA engine ?

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Old Jul 21, 2021 | 06:17 AM
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Default Intake restriction on my freshly built NA engine ?

Sorry this particular post isn't my 'in-depth' build progress but in short I've rebuilt my aged engine (valves seats were badly pitted, and main bearings scored to buggery).
The main use of this car is just to enjoy track days, and a bit of fun on the road sometimes.
I managed to build the engine in my living room, and thankfully finished 2 days before my wife finally joined me in the UK
It wasn't plan sailing, I made a few mistakes along the way but it was a great learning process, and as usual, it's not quite finished yet.

Here is the list of what was done and what I installed:

Block resurfaced, bored out to 96mm
Heads resurfaced
Stock DE crank (balanced)
Manley Connecting Rods & ARP 2000 bolts
96mm Cosworth 11:1 pistons & ring pack
96mm Cosworth head gaskets
ARP main studs & head studs
King XP bearings (rods/mains)
Rev up oil pump with Boundary billet gears
Ported heads (intake, little clean up on ex) & lower manifold
Re-cut valve seats
BC valves (stock size)
JWT C8 cams & springs (stock cam/valve clearances)
Fluidampr dampener

PPE Longtube headers
Motordyne resonated Y-pipe
3" Cobra resonated y-pipe back exhaust (will be changing this to a custom single at some point)

Kinetix Velocity intake
75mm Throttle Body
Z1 'race' 3" intake with their velocity stack/filter combo

DeatschWerks DW200 (255lph) fuel pump
Stock DE injectors (I do have the GTR injectors but the tuner didn't say anything about the duty cycle being bad)

Testing out NGK LFR6A-11, if no good after another 100 miles or so, I'll get a fresh set of stock plugs.
I measured the piston to valve clearances on cylinders 1,2 & 6 (both fully ad/ret on the VVT), from 20-deg before and after true TDC.
The smallest measurement was 7.93mm.

Knackered main bearings:


Knackered valve seats:


After cleaning:


Tidied and ported a little:


So Dyno day was on Monday, extremely anxious about it for obvious reasons.
The dyno cell ambient temp was 40 degrees though, and the tuner was pretty toasty in there as my car hasn't had the AC regassed yet



Firstly, I'm glad it made more power but then crap, why wasn't it a bit more !
Over the coming days there's several things I need to do, and during that process I'll also get a hot compression test to see where I'm at.

I just want to ensure I'm making use of the parts installed, so I'm wondering if the 3" in take isn't quite enough, worth getting/making a 3.5" ?

The other thing with the tuner I go to is that you can't see what is being changed, obviously he doesn't have the time to go through everything with customers.
So I thought perhaps try a remote tuner, and go back in the future for a power run on the same dyno just to see?
Or I've been offered a link ecu, this will open up to more options of tuners (very limited over here for UpRev).

However right now, I just want to get some track days booked and enjoy it again !

Last edited by RobPhoboS; Jul 21, 2021 at 09:34 AM.
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Old Jul 21, 2021 | 08:19 AM
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You're mad about 327whp NA?
I think the tuner did a really good job
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Old Jul 21, 2021 | 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by iideadeyeii
You're mad about 327whp NA?
I think the tuner did a really good job
Certainly not mad (he's a nice guy too!)
But it's not WHP, it's calculated FW (it's roughly 275whp from looking at it).
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Old Jul 21, 2021 | 09:31 AM
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You might gain a bit from the bigger pipe but it will require a retune and all that, do you not have a bigger TB?
not sure if you were saying you had restrictions or it was a thought, but I can tell you this:
I'm on stock cams have the same manifold, full exhaust, and injen intake and have zero restrictions based on my MAP sensor readings. At wide open throttle I will actually see positive pressure in the manifold and no vacuum, if you want to test you can either install a gauge in the manifold pretty easy and check it while on the dyno.
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Old Jul 21, 2021 | 09:34 AM
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I've been under the assumption that the velocity intake doesn't do much until after 500whp.
I think a better option is the V+(what I'm running) or a spacer.
Someone check my notes.
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Old Jul 21, 2021 | 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkZ03
You might gain a bit from the bigger pipe but it will require a retune and all that, do you not have a bigger TB?
not sure if you were saying you had restrictions or it was a thought, but I can tell you this:
I'm on stock cams have the same manifold, full exhaust, and injen intake and have zero restrictions based on my MAP sensor readings. At wide open throttle I will actually see positive pressure in the manifold and no vacuum, if you want to test you can either install a gauge in the manifold pretty easy and check it while on the dyno.
Ah forgot to add the 75mm TB, yes I do have it.
I do vaguely remember talking about doing that back in 2019 the last time I was there, what would I/we be looking for in terms of pressure?

Just a side note, I know the numbers don't really mean squat but I had seen another DE over here at the same place perform better.
We have similar builds but he has a 3.5" intake, and 12:1 pistons, although no head work from what I saw.
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Old Jul 21, 2021 | 12:09 PM
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I would do a larger intake seeing that its very inexpensive (compared to what you've already spent).

Which Link ECU can you get? The G4+? the G4x? It will definately open up options for tuning and it's going to be a much more updated tuning platform than Uprev but it wont (directly) add horsepower. I jumped over to Link after running a haltech forever and I am happy I switched. You'll need to spend a little more money and have to deal with directly wiring in sensors to the ECU but it's not that bad - I'm more than happy to help and Link has amazing customer service.

I would think the extra power is due to the higher compression pistons - hat tip to you for going with those!

If it's not too late I'd add the dynosty crank/main girdle (assuming this is a DE engine? DE or HR?).

next question is when are you adding boost?


Last edited by bealljk; Jul 21, 2021 at 12:11 PM.
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Old Jul 21, 2021 | 10:43 PM
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To answer the Velocity question: it works even in stock form, I wouldn't run a plastic manifold for boost and I wouldn't trust the Velocity much for high power as they have failed.
As far as pressure goes, anything that isn't vacuum at WOT is ok, if you have vacuum you have restrictions.
How much difference between that car and yours?
The extra compression won't do much, most of the difference could be the intake, also was that car running the same fuel?
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Old Jul 22, 2021 | 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bealljk
I would do a larger intake seeing that its very inexpensive (compared to what you've already spent).
I'll see what I can do, there's a company over here that sells a 3.5" (basically exactly the same as what I have) but it's £400.
I'm almost more tempted to try and make my own one, granted, trying to add the little pipe and the maf section is something I'd have to get a welder to do.

Originally Posted by bealljk
Which Link ECU can you get? The G4+? the G4x? It will definately open up options for tuning and it's going to be a much more updated tuning platform than Uprev but it wont (directly) add horsepower. I jumped over to Link after running a haltech forever and I am happy I switched. You'll need to spend a little more money and have to deal with directly wiring in sensors to the ECU but it's not that bad - I'm more than happy to help and Link has amazing customer service.
It's a ViPec, which I think is the G4 (I think it's now just rebranded to Link, not sure on the history of that stuff), a friend has it (didn't use it) but has a different ecu for his ITB build.

Originally Posted by bealljk
If it's not too late I'd add the dynosty crank/main girdle (assuming this is a DE engine? DE or HR?).
It's a bit late for now but in the future, depend on what is happening in the world I'd like to go to the BC 4.1 crank (dreaming atm) and yep, I'd get their beefy girdle.

Originally Posted by bealljk
next question is when are you adding boost?
Heh, this car will stay NA for track duties, unless there was a stupid cheap deal on some used parts.


Originally Posted by DarkZ03
To answer the Velocity question: it works even in stock form, I wouldn't run a plastic manifold for boost and I wouldn't trust the Velocity much for high power as they have failed.
As far as pressure goes, anything that isn't vacuum at WOT is ok, if you have vacuum you have restrictions.
How much difference between that car and yours?
The extra compression won't do much, most of the difference could be the intake, also was that car running the same fuel?
I'll try and message him, I think it's just our normal 98/99 RON fuel (same as your 93iirc).
This the pull he recorded, and my mistake he has the normal plenum/spacer deal I think:



This is the scan of his dyno (hopefully he doesn't mind me posting it here)
https://www.350z-uk.com/uploads/mont...819b086655.jpg

Aside from that, I'll see what my hot, static compression results give.
Maybe I didn't do a good enough job getting the rings bedded in during my break-in process.

On a separate note, I've seen that my coolant gets up to temp very quickly now (I have the Pathfinder mod, new Koyorad, and deleted a bunch of coolant hoses).
So I'm going to try re-connecting the front water bypass hose with a aluminium T-piece to connect the thermostat into it.

Last edited by RobPhoboS; Jul 22, 2021 at 01:30 AM.
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Old Jul 22, 2021 | 02:31 AM
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@RobPhoboS

Good to see some progress is being made on your engine. About your dyno run i can say that the horsepower difference between 40c or 20c can be big.
Also you can make the 3.5inch pipe your self pretty easy. What you can do if the tune is correct is change it to 3.5 inch pipe and see if your widebands (if you have them) need to correct more then before, My guess is that your tune is done using MAP so the MAF sensor is now optional (only side effect is no IAT values) but should be good for a quick test to see if you notice something different.
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Old Jul 22, 2021 | 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by itsLeon
@RobPhoboS

Good to see some progress is being made on your engine. About your dyno run i can say that the horsepower difference between 40c or 20c can be big.
Also you can make the 3.5inch pipe your self pretty easy. What you can do if the tune is correct is change it to 3.5 inch pipe and see if your widebands (if you have them) need to correct more then before, My guess is that your tune is done using MAP so the MAF sensor is now optional (only side effect is no IAT values) but should be good for a quick test to see if you notice something different.
Hey Leon !
Actually I had one of my tabs open on your post with the intake tube you made
I can cut stuff but I can't weld, well I can JB weld
I was thinking of buying a 3.5" aluminium tube and making something, or perhaps trying to make one from cfibre.
I do remember seeing the IAT's so perhaps, unless he had another sensor, it's still MAF?


This pinch probably isn't helping much !




How the engine bay is at the moment, really wish I painted some bits but, ah well:




I'll add these 2 pipes back in but will use a metal T-pice to join the thermostat to the bypass line:




Like this guy did:



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Old Jul 22, 2021 | 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by RobPhoboS
Hey Leon !
Actually I had one of my tabs open on your post with the intake tube you made
I can cut stuff but I can't weld, well I can JB weld
I was thinking of buying a 3.5" aluminium tube and making something, or perhaps trying to make one from cfibre.
I do remember seeing the IAT's so perhaps, unless he had another sensor, it's still MAF?


This pinch probably isn't helping much !




How the engine bay is at the moment, really wish I painted some bits but, ah well:




I'll add these 2 pipes back in but will use a metal T-pice to join the thermostat to the bypass line:




Like this guy did:


First off that pinch in the silicone is less then optimal so that needs a little love (correct size)
On our car the MAF sensor also has the IAT sensor. But you can run without it (if tuned by MAP) the only thing the car won't do is correct the fuel when your IAT is getting higher (most noticeable when stationair)
Mine intake pipes are made of steel (not ideal but very cheap for testing) i think the hardest part will be to find the correct silicone hose (Took me a couple of weeks to find locally)
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Old Jul 22, 2021 | 06:46 AM
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If you want me to fabricate a 4" just cover my costs and I'll build it to your spec ... I thought about doing a 4" intake run for the DEs but just never had time.

Yea, I think Link has some ViPec blood in it. You can download Link PCLink Software for free and tinker around in it and see how you like it. They just released an upgrade/firmware update too.

Def look into the dynosty crank girdle next time the engine is out - fortifies the bottom end well.

Lol, going turbo will change your life!
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Old Jul 22, 2021 | 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkZ03
To answer the Velocity question: it works even in stock form, I wouldn't run a plastic manifold for boost
You talk a lot about F/I for someone who doesn't have a boosted Z
The v+ manifold is good for 15psi
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Old Jul 22, 2021 | 10:11 AM
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If he is on Uprev then he probably doesn't have a MAP sensor, also that's why I ditched the Z1 intake, I tried several couplers and just couldn't get it to sit right. I'll take a look at those dyno charts in a bit.
My coolant temp gets hotter faster since the addition of the headers..

iideadeyeii: I don't NEED to have a boosted Z to know about FI and what works and what doesn't, I've owned a Z since 2007 and I've been a Mechanic for almost as long working on turbo vehicles EVERY day!
From a mechanical aspect plastic doesn't belong on a engine it's prone to failure.
Also my DD is a GTI which with a simple downpipe and tune could probably beat your Z with its 295hp lol.
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Old Jul 22, 2021 | 10:20 AM
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Also had this for a bit now but I'm not in a rush to install it as I don't believe in adding FI for minimal gains, if you aren't getting 150hp+ for it what's the point....
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Old Jul 22, 2021 | 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkZ03
If he is on Uprev then he probably doesn't have a MAP sensor, also that's why I ditched the Z1 intake, I tried several couplers and just couldn't get it to sit right. I'll take a look at those dyno charts in a bit.
My coolant temp gets hotter faster since the addition of the headers..

iideadeyeii: I don't NEED to have a boosted Z to know about FI and what works and what doesn't, I've owned a Z since 2007 and I've been a Mechanic for almost as long working on turbo vehicles EVERY day!
From a mechanical aspect plastic doesn't belong on a engine it's prone to failure.
Also my DD is a GTI which with a simple downpipe and tune could probably beat your Z with its 295hp lol.
Yeah i see that i misread his post about the Link ecu. UpRev needs the MAF sensor as there is no MAP in the stock ECU.
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Old Jul 22, 2021 | 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkZ03
Also my DD is a GTI which with a simple downpipe and tune could probably beat your Z with its 295hp lol.
nah
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Old Jul 22, 2021 | 01:09 PM
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Also Rob - that Z1 coupler is a massive problem ... you might as well have a 2" intake ... that neck-down restriction and the U-turn in the OEM intake neck has got to be killing your airflow.
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Old Jul 22, 2021 | 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by iideadeyeii
nah
more power, more torque, less weight....
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