unless it is SMG, any auto cannot launch...what are you talking about? MT wins by couple of .seconds because MT has better launch than auto...

how can auto launch better than MT??? (i want to know how for reals)unless you do neutral drop which will **** up your transmission.

 

Have You ever tried to launch an auto? if so, which one?

PS: Mr Ktm or Kmt or whatever your name is,...Yup, You've B****-Owned me good. BOY.

 

Im speaking from experience. I have owned 3 Manual cars before my present Auto. I wouldnt call myself a pro as far as manual driving goes, But I am a decent driver, to say the least. I have never been able to launch a manual as easily as I can this particular Auto. I Can shift a manual Faster than an auto shifts itself, and having driven both the 6MT and 5AT Z, and found No difference in performance, I stand by my opinion.

KTM, until we put a skilled driver Behind the wheel of BOTH, and have him do a few runs in each down a track, I guess we'll never really know Exactly What the difference is, Will we?

 

honestly.... this whole site of 350z owners with manuals talk with almost no experience in an auto Z. Again... its magazine racing. Launching a manual.... the Z manual will eat up tires like theres no tomorrow and the rpms are pretty hard to keep where u want since they fly up so fast. feathering the clutch this and that is good for people that know how to do it but mostly I see 14'z for manuals. With an amazing driver, yes the manual will out do the auto cause of power shifting and less drive train loss etc etc. Launching will almost always be better for an automatic unless you have slicks and u are going to do a 6000 rpm drop. I ran 13.9 my first run at the track wtih my auto. I run consistant 13.8z now almost all the time. I dont even heat up my tires, and I bet you with my 0-60 being a 2.0 ill be rite at 13.6. Sorry but no... the auto and the manual are both about how you drive it. Yes the auto is easier but there are tricks to making it faster with the way you drive.

 

hey bro, off topic but, are those consistent 13.8's with or without the bottle?

 

I go to Infineon once or twice a month and the auto launches about the same as the manual.......it will burn tires like crazy until you learn how to do it. Before I changed tires I was spinning all through 1st and second and partly in third. I finish the 1/4 in 3rd gear. This is my first auto except for my two Grand Nationals and this shifts as hard as the GN I had modified.
I launch the auto at 2000-2500 rpm. No tranny drops, just stall.

 

they are 13.8z off the bottle. I should be in high 12z with a 75 shot. but with the auto to launch you should do a power brake. I think that around 1500 RPM's is the max for the stock tires... and you just rev it till there and mash the gas when the light comes. with my new tires its around 2000 and more if I do a slight burn out.

 

a) False, in 1st, 2nd and sometimes in 3rd gear you can spin the impeller faster than the turbine on the 5AT but, you don't lose power with a torque converter. If the impeller spins faster than the turbine the torque converter will create more power. On the 5AT there is a partial lock-up clutch in 3rd and full lock-up clutches in 4th and 5th gear that will mechanically lock the fans together similar to the 6MT. When a torque converter is locked it has similar driveline loss to the 6MT because hydraulic loss is not a concern anymore.

b) False, launching is a driver skill. It doesn't matter which transmisison you have. Lousy drivers will generally have lousy launches and good drivers will generally have good launches. The 5AT is easier to launch and is more consistent than the 6MT but, that doesn't mean either is better than the other. A consistently lousy launch is still a lousy launch.

c) Sort of true, the 6MT does have shorter gears in general than the 5AT because it has more gears and can't create torque like the 5AT can. A transmission with a torque converter can transfer more torque to the turbine (driveshaft) than the impeller (engine/gearbox) is delivering through torque multipication. In affect, it creates a shorter gear through vortex flow then gradually bleeds off the vortex flow to give back the taller gear when the fan speeds couple or lock. Also, transmission ratio is only a part of the whole picture when talking power to the ground.

Click on the links to understand how torque multiplication and gearing works.

Torque Multiplication and Coupling Explained

Gearing - Torque Multipication

 

Never called you a fan boy because that would be wrong. So, please don't say I've been owned by you. I only challenged where you got your information from. Just like you stated, you and I both can't find any sources that tested both the 5AT and 6MT under controlled conditions that we could deem as reliable. I didn't mean to offend you, if I did I'm sorry. I'm not saying you're wrong or faking info, I just didn't know how you came about this info. You can say whatever you want as long as you don't attack other people or purposely spread false info as true. It's just bad form to say something is fact when the information what taken out of context or generally not proveable.

 

Have you actually driven the 5AT? I've been able to launch a 5AT. In the 6MT you have to do a neutral drop because the engine shaft and the driveshaft can't move independently. Unless you are in neutral or stepping on the clutch, the 6MT driveshaft has to spin if the engine is spinning because it has a mechanical connection. The 5AT has a torque converter. Unlike the 6MT, you can spin the engine up to the stall speed before the driveshaft has to turn. There are two ways you can launch the 5AT. The easiest way is to just mash the throttle and have the torque converter flash immediately to the stall speed. The most powerful way is to brake torque. Step on the brake and the throttle at the same time. While the impeller (engine input) is spinning and the turbine (driveshaft) is stationary you will physically put the engine closer to its peak power and at the same time create more torque through mulitpication (see link in my previous post regarding torque multiplication).

Basically, on the 6MT you have to rev the engine to an appropriate RPM before engaging the driveshaft. On the 5AT, it is opposite, you have to engage the driveshaft first then rev the engine to the appropriate RPM. On the 6MT you would release the clutch on the 5AT you would release the brake. Same effect, different procedures.

Launching the 6MT or the 5AT is a driver skill. On the Z it doesn't matter which transmission you have.

 

Excellent posts Aggro_Al

 

I agree, good explanations and I learned some things.
Aggro_Al
Are you going to he Infineon drags this Weds? There should be 5-6 Z's there.

 

Which would you recommend? Of course we are talking "shift kit" and "torque convertor", not $$$.

 

I won't be there. I haven't had the guts to take my car to the track and have people see what a crappy driver I am.

fowlman01 good luck at the drags.

 

Thanks.

you should go just to see the other Z's run. Incognito came to watch and ended up running last time out.

 

A good friend of mine has a 6sp, with intake and exhaust only. He has not beaten me yet. !!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have been to Hotchkis race day twice BTW.