Hey guys,

first and foremost i have done a good amount of research in the past 2-3 months regarding nitrous. I have read various threads and posts including installs from cyber350z's and good reading/research material from mrtomcat and zul8r?? on this board. Basically I want to run a safe system around a 50 shot not having to modify timing or internals (other than 1 step colder plugs) running blow down tube, purge kit, window switch, tps switch etc.

My only question is that I have noticed the majority of N20 user's on this forum and g35driver all mostly use a WET system. From my 'research' and understanding the wet system is one in which you must T off the fuel line or use the SPX adapter whereas this is not necessary on a dry kit?? I am basically trying to determine why nobody has a dry kit and what the main difference is, as I would imagine a dry kit is easier to install and less of a PITA b/c your not messing w/ fuel. From my understanding w/ a dry kit you simply drill a hole into the air intake (certain amount of inches from the maf sensor) and plug in your nozzle and the dry kit basically shoots a stream of higher concentrated oxygen into your engine for combustion than the o2 levels the atmosphere provides hence more power.... Please correct me if I am wrong??! Thanks!!

I simply want to have more power on tap running safely w/o blowing my engine...I am not a total track addict..but I see myself going 2-3 times a year...and I know NOT to run N20 on public streets, but I am curious if a few of you lawbreakers ever have??

 

ok do NOT use the dry kit. It forces your engine to burn oxygen quicker and in turn makes the motor run extremely LEAN since there is no additional fuel being added. This is a dangerous situation and you WILL mess something up (aka "replace the piston rings you fried") .

good luck and everyone is using the wet kit for a reason. do it right the first time. peace

 

cool buddy, thanks for the info, i neglected the lean/rich scenario just injecting addt'l O2...

 

wetter is better. hehe I rhymed

Try a 75-100 shot,you'll be fine

 

With a dry kit, you do not have the benefit of the added fuel coming from a separate source other than your OEM injectors. With a dry kit, your injectors will add additional fuel based off of the MAF readings. This is why the nozzle for a dry kit is before the MAF and not after like a wet kit. When the additional air passes the MAF the ECU will increase fuel through the OEM injectors.

The problem with this is the duty cycle of the OEM injectors and the ability to tune this correctly. At a certain size shot, you will exceed the capabilities of the OEM injectors and this is obviously not good. What is that magic number? Not too many members are willing to find out.

The obvious advantage to a "wet" kit is that it adds nitrous and fuel at the same time. Armed with the knowledge of your fuel pressure at Wide Open Throttle, you can determine what size fuel jet to use for any given shot. In my case, I have a air/fuel controller to adjust things a little finer if need be.

As you stated in your original post, you are looking to do this the safe way and I feel that a wet kit, regardless of the shot you choose to run, is indeed the safest. You can definitely do a very small dry shot and get away with it, but the fact is, you are going to want to up the shot once you get used to it. Just about everyone I know has gone up from their original intentions for their kits.

As far as your question about whether or not you can use this on the street. Sure you can. You just have to be realistic of what size shot you think you will get away with on street tires and especially on stock sized street tires. Obviously public roadways are usually not as sticky as a track, so that is another consideration. I canÃÕ encourage it, but it is doable.

 

awesome guys,

done12many2 thanks for the detailed explanation!! my only question now is i know there are different size nozzle's for different shots (or maybe 'adjustable' nozzles?), however what besides the ECU/MAF sensor determines how much additional fuel to add not to run dangerously lean?? I was under the assumption that more air detected by MAF the ECU would counter by adding fuel via OEM injectors and I understand how the OEM injectors eventually could fail under constant overuse. But would the ECU assist in adding additional fuel to the mixture?? Or is this why you mentioned
"In my case, I have a air/fuel controller to adjust things a little finer if need be." Does your air/fuel controller handle the adding of extra fuel w/ each shot?? So as an example: I want to run a 50 shot, put on a 50 shot nozzle run w/ it. then I decide to upgrade to a 75 shot, simply change the nozzle and run w/ it, OR do I have to go and calibrate that 'air/fuel controller' you were referring to?? With the wet setup is this all automated?? thats basically my question!! I guess this leads to another question, IF in fact using a wet kit the ECU determines how much extra the OEM injectors would add, is the fuel line tap used to inject fuel/n20 through the same nozzle (therefore the OEM injectors would be simply adding the same amount of fuel rougly, and the purpose of the fuel line tap or SPX adapter would be to provide the addt'l fuel the ECU deems necessary to run safe?? Man this is alll reaaally starting to make sense...

 

I am going to take a stab at what you are asking. Hopefully I understand your question.

"however what besides the ECU/MAF sensor determines how much additional fuel to add not to run dangerously lean??"

On a dry shot, the only thing that will be added to the intake will be nitrous passing the MAF sensor. You never run a wet shot past the MAF. Up to a certain shot size, the MAF/ECU will adjust accordingly to the added air by adding more fuel through the OEM injectors to the max of their capabilities.

"Does your air/fuel controller handle the adding of extra fuel w/ each shot??"

An A/F converter/controller will allow you to adjust the amount of fuel in you A/F mixture by fooling your ECU into thinking it is running leaner by incremental adjustments. If the ECU believes that it's running leaner, it will add more fuel.

This however is not the primary way of adjusting the A/F in a wet shot. The fuel portion of the wet shot is adjusted by adding smaller or larger fuel jets. If you place a larger nitrous jet in your nozzle, then you will more than likely place a larger fuel jet in your nozzle.

I guess to clear this up a bit, I should explain that in a wet system there are two lines running to one nozzle that taps into your intake. One line is nitrous, and the other is fuel. The combinations of the nitrous and fuel jets at the proper ratio, is what adjusts your A/F ratio. You can further fine-tune this ratio with an A/F converter/controller. That however is optional. You can obtain a safe A/F without one, but you cannot perfectly adjust how your want your A/F to be throughout the power band.

"want to run a 50 shot, put on a 50 shot nozzle run w/ it. Then I decide to upgrade to a 75 shot, simply change the nozzle and run w/ it, OR do I have to go and calibrate that 'air/fuel controller' you were referring to??"

You definitely need to run a WET shot. With a wet shot you will simply change the nitrous jet for a 50 shot to the 75 shot and at the same time change the fuel jet matched for the 50 shot to that of the 75 shot. Fine-tuning with an A/F controller is once again optional and by no means necessary unless you have trouble areas in the power band.

"With the wet setup is this all automated??"

The only automation in a standard wet nitrous system is you! Other than that, it is fairly mechanical as far as the nitrous system itself. Now there are addition add-ons that do make things automated.

I run the NX Maximizer, which is a computer controlled progressive controller. This system automates just about everything you can automate with nitrous and eliminates the need for a lot of the other additional safety add-ons. It does quite a bit and you'll want to read up on it if you opted to add this to your setup. I will warn you that as far as installation is concerned, it adds a lot of work. More than double, but the payoffs are worth it.

 

wet...

 

I would say wet all the way, however I find the Edelbrock 350Z dry kit fairly impressive and worthwhile to take a look at...

Still the NX Wet EFI system is in my opionion the safest, most powerful and sophisticated one out there , add the fantastic customer support all the needed safety equipment and you got yourself a good kit

 

mrtomcat, I tried to get a hold of you by messenger the other day. Wanted to update you on the setup. I'll try again later.

 

I left AIM on at work the other day and saw your message in the morning. I'm eager to get some updates from you, I'll sign on later on, got to run right now to do some work on my Celi.

 

awesome, i think i have a much better understanding of the inner workings now. In my questions in my last post I was only referring to the wet kit since thats what the general consensus deemed as the safest route.

Before you read my 'dumb' and repetitive questions let me state what i understand and you can tell me 'right' or 'wrong'!! On a wet kit nozzle is setup AFTER MAF, therefore ECU CANNOT detect addt'l air/fuel coming in via the nozzle. On wet kit, nozzle has 2 inputs (nos, fuel). The nozzle size determines shot (which determines amount of air and fuel to mix to have an optimal A/F. Since the ECU CANNOT see addt'l air/fuel coming in, you can FINE TUNE the A/F by using an A/F controller, thereby 'perfecting/adjusting' to an optimal A/F!!! So the first line of defense for a safe A/F is the nozzle, after that the A/F controller can 'further' improve that ratio by fooling the ECU to think its running lean to add more fuel!!

Lastly, since hypothetically while running NOS we are using up more fuel will this be a problem for the OEM fuel pump and is it a good idea to upgrade the fuel pump to a higher flow rate pump (walbro fuel pump)!?!

 

I never used nitrous on the streets, no, not me..... hehe

I used to run nitrous in my old accord for years, never had an issue. so long as you know what you are doing and how to use it, you'll be safe. Just refilling that bottle is a pain, if you end up keeping the system for any length of time on your car, i recomend getting an extra bottle, so you can keep one full all the time.....

 

Couldn't agree with you more on that second bottle idea. I am about going to buy one myself. Was thinking about getting a 15 lbs bottle so that it would last a bit longer. I could just rotate them out or hook them both up.

Do you guys sell individual bottles? If so, can you PM me the prices for a 10 and 15 lb bottle?

 

this is just wording but it's not the nozzle size that determines the shot it's the jets within the nozzle.
NX has spent quite a bit of time calculating and testing what the correct jet sizes are so you don't really need to worry about that as long as you follow their directions.
There is no need to upgrade your fuel pump as long as you stay in a resonable shot size (I wouldn't go more than a 100 shot on stock internals)

and last but not least: Please don't call it NOS, call it nitrous, n2o, spray, juice but not NOS...NOS is a company...calling it by it's real name will give you already 10 additional horsepower

 

i was aware of the blue NOS bottles and the company and i tried my best in my first post not to say 'NOS' but it slipped out!!

hahaha, done deal!!

 

LMAO "trous"