Theatrix

iTrader: (8)

I appreciate this discussion and see both side of the arguement. In my application, it makes more sense to go Nitrous because I am the temporary user of this car. My son gets it in a year and I don't want to give him too much under the pedal. He will get bolt ons and that it. I on the other hand would like to have some fun, so I'm installing N20 (150 shot) this weekend.

Mods to this point are Mrev2 and spacer and popcharger. Any ideas what I can expect in the 1/4.
Will also be doing HKS exhaust and HFC. I am ordering the JWT rev-up cams soon. Input would be great and hopefully this is not seen as highjacking this thread.

3hree5ive0ero

iTrader: (95)

subscribed.. definitely some good info and reading to be had here.

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

hey man, i only took one run in my car with a 150 shot and ran 11.8, that was my first run ever with it. i just had some other boltons, BUT you need something to take some timing out. i would recommend a utec so it will control the nitrous using the built in rpm window switch and throttle position switch...


pm me if you would like to know a good place to find the utec or any nitrous parts you might need at a good deal.

thanks and good luck

Old School

iTrader: (28)

Order a clutch before you install the nitrous (if you plan on running 125-150 shot). My stock clutch was toast...or close to the first run on the dyno with 150 shot. Jeremy's clutch held on as well as some others on this board, just be prepared, cuz with that much torque, you're bound to burn it up soon after install.

Old School

iTrader: (28)

I can always count on Jeremy to regulate. lol. We were getting along until your boy had to clown the nitrous guys. Wasn't angry cuz I'm always down for a good discussion. Just went out of my way to prove him wrong (which sometimes gives me wood, lol). Anyhow, well said Jeremy. Holla back!

NA&CH

iTrader: (74)

Everyday that goes by its gets harder and harder to make my decision. Turbo or N20.

If I go with n20 and then want to go Turbo, theres 2k(really 1k) off of what I had for the turbo. If I go turbo it won't be for a while.

I have never had a n20 setup, so I dont know what to expect. I have had a turbo setup.

Decsions decsions

Old School

iTrader: (28)

ride in a Z that sprays and ride in a Z that boosts....that will help you make your decision. A 75 shot is comparable to a Z that's SC'd. Definately a gain, but not very impressive (the 75 shot) in my opinion.

Both have pros n cons like mentioned in this thread. Best thing to consider is how often you will be driving her hard. If you like to have power all the time, then your decision should be simple. I only need it every once in a while, so I chose nitrous.

Gilley

iTrader: (12)

I just hate getting spanked by those damn EVOs.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Well I haven't checked this thread in a while but since I'm back let me weigh in. First off I don't disagree nitrous is a cheap (and I stress cheap) solution to making more power. The end choice is up the owner. What is their goal? what does he want? How does he drive? My main heart burn on this subject was when it was mentioned that turbo kits as a whole are more troublesome then nitrous. I never said the performance gain during a spray wasn't there. But lets face a couple facts. A properlly designed, installed, and tuned turbo system will be as hassle free as running a nitrous setup of the same quality of design and install. I have over 45k miles on my car since I installed my Turbonetics kit. I have over 50k total miles on the car. I've never had an issue other then wear and tear. (Brake pads, tires, clutch, etc). I don't know if it gets much more reliable than that. I'm making (and have been making) 380 RWHP and 370 ft/lb on 91 pump at 8 PSI. My tq curve looks good to me and it compliments my driving style. But on the performance note while nitrous can be fun for a while if you like to track your car (Willow, Streets, etc not just drag strips) nitrous isn't going to do you much good. Especially if you plan to lap all day. Not to mention most people feel power in the car and want to reproduce it all the time. Of course if you have a dedicated track car or street monster then you always have that option. For me though once I felt 370 ft/lb in a Z I didn't want to only have that power when I pushed a button and refilled a bottle. I wanted it there any time I plant my foot and only have to stop for gas. As I already said the end choice is on the owner/driver. For me nitrous just wasn't enough. It doesn't do the job of a track (again HPDE not drag) and I don't like "losing" my performance increase the bottle is empty. As for nitrous backfires yes they are rare but yes they can also occur and can be dangerous. See video: http://media.putfile.com/crx_burnt

rkd350z

iTrader: (3)

Na Ftw~
jk
at least you guys have something to talk about..

Old School

iTrader: (28)

Good points....now we're talkin!!!!!! I look forward to these conversations. One thing though MIAPLAYA....shave that Go-T!! hahaha...jp, saw SEMA pics.

On the real...as far as tracking is concerned, I will be tracking the Z, both drag and road racing. Turbos would definately be beneficial in that aspect. Can you track a 350Z TT reliably? Most of the guys on here build their cars and take them to the strip. Running around the track for for half an hour is alot different than 10 seconds in a straight line. Not saying it couldn't be done....I guess low boost wouldn't be a problem. Overheating might be an issue....can anyone that tracks their 350Z TT chime in?

Like I said, I will be tracking my Z as well. I'll use the nitrous for the drag strip and all motor for the road courses. Similiar to Rickdogg's setup only stroked block and built heads. All the reliable performance stuff (oil/power steering cooler, thermo, etc etc). A good track car doesn't have to have 600hp...just has to be light and agile....just look at the lotus elise. I do see where you're coming from...all good points and all things considered, turbo is a good option.

Reliability wise, there is alot more to deal with when turbos come into play. Tuning becomes more import and detailed. One of the major reasons ppl have issues. That's where my concern comes in....more parts to break also plays a big roll.....I honestly see more problems with turbos on cars that come NA from the factory. I haven't had the luck you have had. Alot of headaches for me over years on turbo'd (factory NA) cars. Just my observation in my 12 years in the import scene. The supra never gave me any trouble...but all the others did. Holla back

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

I've run my car before for all day lap sessions in 110 degree weather with no issues. (Well aside from the brake fluid boiling). I honestly believe most problems people have are install or tuning related. My car has been running the out of box Turbonetics Stage 1 reflash since day 1 and I have never had an issue at the track or on the street. Solid AFRs every time. I pulled thermostat and haven't over heated since but the last time it over heated was because the thermostat failed (for the second time) so i just got rid of it. I think minor things like that can greatly increase your success in running a turbo car. Theres actually quite a few TT and ST guys who track their car. Greg from GSpec tracks his car every time the track is open (Turbonetics ST). The VRT guys ALL track their cars damn near weekly at Streets, Big, or Cal Speedway. And those guys are making 200 MORE HP and tq then me even. I agree a good track car doesn't need 600 HP. But a good driver and car with 550 HP will beat another car with only 300 hp and the same track setup and driver almost every time. At least at most tracks. I think as a whole more people drag race anyways for a few reasons. I fi tell you I run a 1:28 at Streets what does that mean to you? Absolutely nothing. If I tell you I put down mid 12s all day at 114-116 on 19" street tires you know what I'm talking about. Drag is cheaper to run, more popular, and is easier to understand from a power/performance aspect as thats what most people are acustomed to seeing. Not to mention (nothing against drag guys) that it takes far less money to make you car fast on the drag strip as it does to make your car lap fast all day long. As you said a 1/4 mile run is 15 seconds or less (15 for the N/A FWD guys ). An HPDE could last all day and have 30-40 minute sessions in which the car also needs to be stable in turns, braking, etc. All in all as I said its up to the owner what the best option is. For me it was a turbo. Although I must say I still disagree with your opinion of reliability. My maintenance cycle and work is no different with a turbo then it was N/A. And I have had no issues with my car to date.

Old School

iTrader: (28)

well you go boy. Sound like you have had alot of luck. Keep it up. I bet I can track a better time at streets with only 130whp...see sig..lol.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Well I was pulling that time out of my **** anyways (don't remember my last lap times) but a Gixxer 750 is going to work me no matter how much power i have

MikeEwithTheZ

iTrader: (11)

It just gets me that all they talk about is nitrous backfire's...I cant even count how many times i have read...i blew my motor, or i put a rod through my block comments in the F/I section...I have seen more problems on average in the F/I section thatn the nitrous section...PPl just like to bash on nitrous no matter what board or group you talk to for the one big fact that i have 1000 dollars invested and run as fast as ppl with 7 times that...Nitrous is great for people like myself who a) dont drive the car often or b)dont need to beat on it all the time

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Um again do you really want to compare the number of Zs that spray on this board with the number of people with a supercharger or turbocharger? I'm willing to bet theres less then 30 people on this board with spray. Theres OVER 300 people with boost. And I'm sorry to tell you this but nitrous is not exactly the hardest thing to install. With a wet shot "tuning" is limited to picking the right jet sizes. Factor in the complexity of the supercharger and turbocharger kits, add tuning for that power ALL the time and then factor in that I am making 370 ft/lb every day as opposed to only when you spary and you should be able to see WHY there are more people with blown motors on boost. Try apples to apples next time.

one350zfan

iTrader: (11)

No offense Playa, but you are the mouth of Turbonetics and seem to be the closest to them(personally). So I would hope you'd be able to keep your car tight or you/they would have no credibility, at least on this forum!

You've said it time and time again that unless you have a good tuner, vast knowledge yourself, and don't deviate from what the kit recommends, you'll have problems with any kit. Now, we've just eliminated 98% of the enthusiast on this board that should get a Turbo. Hell, their's no doubt that I'm going to get a Turbo down the road but i want to build and do it right!

I'd like to argue the whole road course thing, but its not my bag, but I do realize plenty of people do it N/A and have a blast. But lets be honest, its all about HP and Trq! Even the VTR guys who are course junkies are more know for pushing their motors to the limits than track times.

So, what would you suggest to us that would like a taste of the higher HP and TRQ but aren't willing to put our motors at risk? I'm mean sure, I could do an out the box kit like you, spend wasted money on a double install when I do build and in the mean time a guy like "faster than u" will be raping me with his 100 shot! But hey, at least I could say I have a turbo

Also, have you tried tuning a 150 shot of nitrous with a utec?

It would be intersting to take a poll of the amount of nitrous users on this forum though!

iceburns288

iTrader: (3)

Is having people with more blown motors some sort of accomplishment? Sorry, but I didn't know having an overly complex 30+ hour install was something to brag about.

You're not making a very good case for forced induction here. You're telling me that a) not only is installing a turbo kit very difficult, it's very lengthy b) it will blow up if not tuned properly c) and I will have additional wear on my engine all the time instead of the ~10-20 seconds a week I choose to spray. Why in the Earth's hot magma core would I boost my engine after listening to that?

dTor

iTrader: (27)

I think some FI guys feel (or at least want to) that they are more "advanced" in the realm of performance than N2O guys because FI kits are more complex and expensive to install/tune than a N2O kit that has similar power output, plus saying you're FI seems to have a certain facade of being amongst the high performance elite. Saying you have nitrous tells others, "I'm a frugal individual (read: cheap ***) who will walk all over your car and it's 8/10/12 psi".

No offense, but this is the way it seems most of the time, and not just from Z/G guys. Most FI guys know they can get equal short term performance for 1/4 of the price by using nitrous. If you really do have to have 500 rwhp available 24/7, then by all means have at it. If you've done everything else and just want to try something different, then you're a lot like me, but you just have more money . If you are a die-hard enthusiast then let your love show! If you're doing FI out of snobbery, elitism, low self-esteem, idiocy, or any number of personality traits that would be considered "lacking", then keep at it - the economy, aftermarket performance manufacturers/distributors/installers and anybody else who benefits financially from your shortcomings thank you greatly each time you write a check.

BTW, did you hear about bambam's second engine taking a crap??? https://my350z.com/forum/forced-induction/229212-bambam-brents-car-let-go-again.html

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Wow ok well lets see my car has NEVER been tuned. Thats not saying much for your first argument. AS for deviating from whats recommended its not hard to figure out what you can and can't do with an out of box turbo kit. I supposed if you are too proud to read the forums and find the answers then yes you won't have the "vast" knowledge necessary to determine what you should and should not do based on what you have. Its all been tried before and the info is here. But I guess thats not enough for you. When did I say blown motors with a thing to be happy about. My point is that earlier it was said that no one has blown motors with nitrous. Thats not true. If you were around in the early days of the boards there were a few people who lost rods from nitrous. Since then not many people run nitrous so of course there are less chances of seeing a blown motor from nitrous. Its not rocket science. If you have 300 people with a more complex power adder and only 30 or so people with a fairly simple power adder which group do you think is MORE likely to post about an issue? Of course a turbo kit is more difficult to install and longer to install than nitrous. You aren't just adding a bottle, two braided lines, two solenoids, and MAYBE a purge unit and heater. The hardware required for a turbo kit is of course to consist of more since its meant to run power levels higher then nitrous for more amounts of time. If you are not capable of reading the instructions of the turbo kit and installing it properly then you should probably go to a shop. I've helped/installed 4 turbo kits now not including other cars. Its not exactly rocket science. But hey not everyone is as capable of grasping concepts and following instructions as everyone else. As for additional wear ANY PART YOU PUT ON THE CAR that increases HP will increase wear on the motor. Does it increase it to the point its no longer reliable. Well it didn't for mine but since I must be biased according to you lets ask taurran, peking, gumpdriver, meatshackle, 12NV, or one of the other hundreds of boosted Z owners who ALSO have not had a single issue. In the end if you don't think a turbo kit is for you then don't buy it. Go pick up an intake, exhaust, and nitrous if thats all you feel comfortable installing. I never said EVERYONE had to buy a turbo. In fact I think I have stated no less then three times IN THIS THREAD that its up to the owner to decide whats best for them. Regardless of what it is. Oh yeah, bottles are for babies.