BabyZiLLa

iTrader: (7)

What octane gas are you guys running on a 100 shot?

Pretty much all I can get in Canada is 91 Octane Shell V-Power.

Thinking I might have to run meth while on the spray, which was the plan anyways. But I'm just curious.

3hree5ive0ero

iTrader: (95)

If you're willing to experiment and take the time, you CAN bring up your octane level with other things you can find easily at a local paint store (http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc...ebooster.html). I've not heard anybody use it with nitrous though, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. (Don't quote me on that)

If you haven't already, you should be running on colder spark plugs. Since you only have access to 91, maybe 2 steps colder spark plugs may be better. And, if you can but haven't already, you should also get a tune to make sure everything is right with 100 shot on 91 octane gas. Of course, if you have access to racing gas, that'll help. The gas prices are so high that the 100 octane gas aren't that much more expensive.

BabyZiLLa

iTrader: (7)

What is common for you guys in the USA? 100 octane?

I moved here from Australia and man do they ever have **** gas in Canada. I'm suprised there allowed to sell this junk, especially with the prices.

I'm running one step colder. 2 steps i think would be overkill. I'm also running Uprev Osiris with Left and Right bank wideband so I can keep things in order.

I think the easiest solution is still to just run meth injection when on the spray.

frankie945

iTrader: (35)

93 octane to 87 around here. I agree above I would run 2 step colder plugs.
NOS is like laughing gas way to addicting...

To be safest get a utec and have it tuned.

chefrey

iTrader: (20)

you can run whatever octane gas is available it really doesnt matter as long as you can pull timing when using the lower grade stuff.

octane ratings just let you know the gasses ability to resist spontanious combustion from comppression or the fuels ability to only ignite from the flame made by your plugs.
lower octane fuels have less ability to do this thats why they need more timing retard to prevent knock, thus the motor looses efficieny and power, but can be run safely with lower out puts.
higher octane fuels can handle the higher cylinder pressures better without preignition thus allowing more timing which leeds to more power out of the same motor.
this is why just dumping octane boost into your car doesnt really benefit you unless you can take advantage by advancing the timing as well.

it is also not safe to run octane boosters and like products with nitrous. the two dont mix well because of the products used in the octane booster and are not considered safe to run together.

running two step colder plugs will not offer that much help either, they will disipate a little more heat from the combustion chamber ( spark plugs do not just offer spark but also aid in pulling heat out of the chamber)but that is about it. with the preasures caused by the nitrous during combustion(heat and preasure from the extra oxygen that is created by more violent combustion and the expanding of the nitrogen from the heat) the lower octane gas will still be more susceptable to knock with the small temp drop doing almost nothing at all. knock is not only caused by heat but by extreme cylinder preasures which two step coulder plugs or even 1 step colder plugs can not help with.
the nitrogen in the n20 will help buffer the violent combustion though because of the high temps it takes to seperate the nitrogen atoms from the oxygen atoms(565F) at t hat point the extra oxygen is free to burn and all hell brakes loose. n20 is 36% oxygen by weight while the air we breath (and your car) is aroun 23% by weight. it is this extra oxygen mixed with more gasoline that makes the actual power when the nitrogen and oxygen split not the nitrous oxide as a whole hence why it is not flamable below certain temps (565F).


hope this helps you out

manbeer

3hree5ive0ero i am going to be running a 30 percent toluene blend when i spray and i am aiming to spray the largest possible shot without retarding timing at all. I will let everyone know how this works. Although i don't really plan on a tune i will be monitoring A/F ratios and knock and if need be i will bump up the fuel pressure by a little. Timing will remain stock. I think that 150hp shot is an attainable goal with a slightly richer mix of higher octane fuel

3hree5ive0ero

iTrader: (95)

Uh, don't do 150 shot. It's too great of a risk. I'd stick with a 100 shot, until you can tune.

manbeer

i'll start at 100 but i think i'm gonna shoot for 150 on stock timing with no tune except for possibly an adjustable FPR. that will be running 100+ octane though.

chefrey

iTrader: (20)

boom!

j.arnaldo

Dear chefrey: Where did you learn all that good stuff about octane ratings?
My son, my mechanic, colleagues at work, friends, etc., keep telling me I should use ONLY 91-octane gas, but I keep getting the 87-octane one. So far, NO pinging, dieseling or any other tell-tale signs; just the corresponding loss in performance--which, BTW, i don't mind. I bought my Zed for looks, re-
liability, ergonomics, MPG, and many reasons, except performance (I'm 59!).
Thanks, dude!

baspence

iTrader: (1)

this should be added to a sticky somewhere

manbeer

Nah, i am pretty sure it can be done and i don't mind being the guinea pig here.
Bear in mind that A/F ratio and knock will be monitored closely and i am not going to jet it for 150 shot right off the bat. If the car is running at 15degrees btdc and specs call for 15-20 i think that i have a little leeway, and since guys on here are running a hundred shot w/o a tune then i definitely feel that 150 is feasible with a much higher octane to resist detonation. As far as fuel additives not being recommend for n20, toluene is found in all gasoline that we purchase and guess what, as the octane goes up so does the percentage of toluene. So it is in essence no different then race gas, but without some of the lubricative properties, but that is easy to remedy. My area of expertise is in turbo apps rather than nitrous, but from the research i have done many of the same things hold true

chefrey

iTrader: (20)

all that information comes from reading books and understanding cars. i actually tune my own car in its n/a state and also on the juice. that is not something i would just jump into with out putting many weeks, months of reasearch into before i started. it would suck to loose a 40,000 dollar car from a simple mistake of running to lean. i spent more hours data logging and understanding what simple changes can do and what the cars computer can allready do on its own then it actually took me to put a tune together.

all that being said i have also learned that all cars are different and have their own individual likes and dislikes. the more mods you add to a car the more it differentiates itself from another car. i have seen tuning logs of other 350s that have similar setups of my own but run completely different. each car has its own idenity.

as far a running 87 octane goes, it really wont hurt the motor all that much besides maybe not running as efficient or as clean burnnig as one running 91 causing a more accelerated engine wear after highre millage is reached. its always good to run a tank of the highest octane available everyonce in a while to clean out carbon build up.

as far as the computer goes nissan knows that 93 octane isnt availble (what is considered premium where i live) in all the markets that the z is sold. this being said the car is not tuned to run specifically on one octane rating of gas, there is actually 5 timing maps in the computer (one being limp mode)that the car can refer to at anytime to run what ever timing all the sensors feel necessary. the only downfall of using 87 is that the car wont produce all the power that the car is capable of especially at high rpms and wide open throttle when timing is advanced at it furthest.

the only time you have to run is a specific octane rated gas is when your car has an aftremarket tune using that specific gas. ie. using forced induction, nitrous,or even just an n/a tune or reflash. at that point you need to talk with your tuner to see what was used and stick wit that from there out, because once your timting maps have been overridden you will get knock using lower grade fuels.

chefrey

iTrader: (20)

as far as my recomendation about not using octane boosters and like products, that is just coming from reading the simple instructions that came with my nitrous kit. if they made it a point to tell me not to do it i think ill stay away from it. i am no expert in the ingredients used to make those products so ill take the advice from the prople taht sold me the kit.

as far as you running that big of a shot,
timing in the 350 in its stock form can be as high as 25 degrees ( not 15 degrees) btdc under wot in high rpms( i have data logs that show it), that spells boom with that big of a shot. another added negative affect is if you have any other aftermarcket bolt-ons(which i dont know if you do), they will mess up your a/f ratios big time to the point where the stock ecu can not compensate. the nitrous kits on the market are sold with jets that were tested on stock cars for the most part not cars that have been modded. if you are just monitoring your a/f with no ability to control it or your timing their is a possibility you can blow the motor on the first run. also generally the stock ecu will not pull 20 degrees of timing (unless its in limp mode) like a utec or other ems will do at detection of knock making chances of boom even greater if you stay on the gas.

i will post data logs of me running a dynotune 75 shot on stock fuelling with a car that has many bolt-ons for you to see what i am talking about. it was as leans as 14.x and as rich as 10.x all in the same one gear pull. scary **** if you dont have the ability to tune.

i recomend spending the money on a something like a utec or j&s safegaurd. the utec will not only give you a/f and timing control but will also run the whole nitrous system in a computerized manner as far as turning on and off juice and meeting critical engine specs before turning on. that alone is peace of mind, safety and will save you money in your nitrous set up, no window switch to buy. the utec will also allow you to run multiple maps so you can have a n/a tune for regular driving which you are doing 85% of the time(unless it is a race only car)and a tune for when using nitrous. the tuning required to run a 150 shot will take quite a bit of timing out and lower your a/f significantly enough that you will feel it during normal driving in a major way. you wont like it.

plus if you plan on running more fuel with a regulator to make it safe you are actually hurting the cars performance by going overly rich which will slow the car down alot. from bringing my a/f up from 10.x to 11.6 made a night and day difference in the performance i got out of my nitrous kit. the propper way to add more fuel to a wet nitrous kit is also not using a regulator, it would be by adjusting your fuel jet size while leaving your nitrous jet size alone or by aftermarket ecu tuning. a regulator should just be used as a safety device to make sure pressure doesnt drop below a certain psi.

the last thing ill ad is that octane is not the only varible that effects detination. good luck!

chefrey

iTrader: (20)

i agree with that completey, with that being said running a 150 on a z is similar in power and tuning to running a turbo at 8 or 9 psi.

would you bolt on a turbo at that psi and just add higher octane fuel or would you tune it?

3hree5ive0ero

iTrader: (95)

Some good conversation and information being passed on here. Glad to see the nitrous subforum finally get some action.

Thanks for your insight on things chefrey.

manbeer

well, i decided to check out those Utec's and they actually do much more then i thought at first (i thought they were more like the eManage)
it may not be a bad investment, we shall see...
as far bolt on's, the car is a totally stock '07 G35 6mt, the only exception being a stillen intake/z-tube. I will be putting a set of test pipes on with an extra bung welded in place for a wideband o2. the reason i would be bumping up the fuel pressure SLIGHTLY would be if i did a few more mods like a plenum, which would cause the car to lean out a bit, but i wasn't planning on going up more than 5 psi or so, just to compensate for them. As far as the n2o i would adjust with a different jet. But i guess for around 6 or 700 in the marketplace listings, a utec wouldn't be a bad idea considering it would save me a few hundred right off the bat because i wouldn't need the window switch OR the knock monitor.

j.arnaldo

Dear chefrey: What IF I put a 20-oz. bottle of Techron ever so many miles in the gas tank: Will that prevent carbon build-up in the combustion chamber, even if I use 87-octane gas? Thank you.

chefrey

iTrader: (20)

if you are going to go that route i would (and do) use lucas fuel treatment at evey oil change (3000 miles). some might say this is overkill but i also replace the tran fluid and rear end fluid every other oil change (6000 mile). lubricants can only go through so many heat cycles before they start to breakdown and once they do, it can start to effect the way the car runs.

i admit im overly careful with my car and the way i think about it, but that gives me piece of mind. you could run your car on 87 octane its whole life and to you there might not be any difference the way the car runs. there is nothing wrong with that, as you say you have the car for other reasons. if you plan to drive the car to 100,000 miles and get every mile possible put of it while having some fun, then i recomend putting a little extra into it to help it along the way.

you can also choose to just have nissan clean out the motor at every scheduled maintence like they are going to try and sell you and it will have the same type effect.

"there is more then one way to skin a cat but at my cat skinny factory i will do it my way"

to each their own on how they take care of their cars, there is many different options out there, all i recomend is that you chosse one of them, not necesarily all of them.

with all that being said some of the fuel system cleaners out there are better then others. some clean just the upper system while others clean the whole system, read the info about them and make a smart decision on which one you chose and use it accordinly. i do not have personal experience with all of the ones out there so i can not make a good judgement call, though i will say i use the lucas product and do like the outcome.

hope this helps

chefrey

iTrader: (20)

it would be much smarter to go the utec route to correct the fuel then with the regulator because every mod is going to have a different out come on every car as far as a/f goes. you will have much more control of the fine tuning at every load point(at every 250 rpm) instead of guessing at a fuel preasure that might work at on rpm range but not at another and is not instantly changeable. you will be stuck at one fuel setting even if it hits the target a/f at low rpm but becomes overyly rich/lean at high rpms with the regulator, but with the utec you can control it at indivdual points to get the best performance out of the whole rpm range.

the utec uses stock knock monitoring sytems which are pretty good but it is able to pull more timing then stock as an extra safe gaurd, if you dont want that added safety the utec is programable to act just as stock ecu would. it is up to the end user to pick the settings that will be used during the tuning and everyday driving after wards

for example some people running n/a will set the knock threshold to 3 counts instead of one. thus the utec does not pull any timing at all untill the knock count on a cycle reaches three, while some people let the utec pull timing right at one count of knock. it is all in the way the system is set up and the trust and communicion you have with the person tuning your car.

i just saw that you have an 07 in your previous post but the comment you make after wards about the z-tube and stillen intake throws me off. i thought the 07s have the duel intakes which require different tuning methods that arent finalized or available yet.