JZK

iTrader: (1)

Hm. Searched and didnt find any comparisons, just wanted to make this thread to see the pro's and con's of each spark plug; and also to make sure of some things..

So what I do know is that if your running a nitrous set-up, you should run one or two step colder plugs; one step colder plugs come in iridium and copper; correct?

So based on what I found, the only differences in between the copper and iridium one step colder plugs is:
Iridium lasts longer and has a higher price then copper; is that the only difference?

I also do know that the HR's come with stock Iridium spark plugs. So does this mean that the stock iridium spark plugs = one step colder plugs? Would I have to change my stock spark plugs to anything better to run a nitrous set-up? I'm not sure if the HR spark plugs are different from the DE spark plugs. Please educate, I know their are many of you with nitrous experience and know every single thing about a safe nitrous set-up.

Thanks
~J

Dynosty

iTrader: (27)

'Iridium' does not designate heat range. You will likely want a colder plug than what the car comes with. What heat range is determined by a number of factors, but do you know roughly what shot you intend to spray?

JZK

iTrader: (1)

Originally I was planning on a 100 shot.. But I was reading up and it seems that the VQ's can hold up to a 150 shot as long as you tune the car with nitrous. (Take some timing out, correct?)

But I really wanted to go with a 125shot since I'm aiming to break 400whp. But then again my Z is a daily driver and I'm not sure if a 125 shot is going to be safe for the motor. I also heard that the VQHR's can hold a little more nitrous (not sure if that's true or not.)

I'm definately going to be getting the 1 or 2 step colder plugs, which one would be better for a 125 shot?

Would a 125 shot have any harm on my motor? I'm definately going to tune it with spray, I plan on getting the car tuned with spray at japtrix, I already talked to jack there.

Opinions and facts are greatly welcomed, thanks

3hree5ive0ero

iTrader: (95)

One of a spark plug's duties, other than creating a spark, is removing heat from the combustion chamber. By channeling the heat through the various materials, this is done. The heat is transferred to cylinder heads and the engine cooling system does the rest.

The ability to dissipate heat is synonymous with a spark plug's heat range. Thus, colder spark plugs can channel more heat out of the combustion chamber. Keep in mind, though, that the spark plug also needs to be within its designated range to foul out, so colder isn't always better. A hotter spark plug can cause detonation (detrimental for nitrous applications), among other things.

Personally, I'd think that 1 step colder spark plugs should be good for any shot under 100 and 2 step colder spark plugs should be utilized if 100+.

Lastly, I recall being told that the difference from one heat range to the next is the ability to remove 70ºC to 100ºC from the combustion chamber.

Hope this helps.

Italianjoe1

iTrader: (6)

Go two steps colder if you can. It can't really hurt if its a little more than necessary anyway, better to have the extra margin of safety.

Don't use Iridiums in a nitrous app, they use a very fine center electrode, which tends to act like a glow plug when using nitrous. The cyl pressures and temps are so much higher on nitrous, and the Iridiums are not designed for it at all. My Cobalt was perfectly happy to have NGK coppers in it instead of the factory Iridiums, and at about $8 a set, they are cheap enough to throw a new set in every other oil change and not worry about the life on them. I have 3 sets of perfect used ones here at the house I used to throw in other peoples cars as test plugs

3hree5ive0ero

iTrader: (95)

See, I thought coppers were what you were supposed to use for nitrous applications, too. I'm currently running the NGK 1 step colder coppers (NGK LFR6A-11) in my set up. I was told something similar to what you said for using coppers and not iridium. However, there's 2 vendors in another recent thread saying you should use iridiums. They said coppers are cheaper and iridiums last longer and that iridiums should be used. Still, I'm going to stick with coppers on my car.

BTW, what's just as important as getting a 1 or 2 step colder spark plug is making sure the gap is correct. You want to make sure you get the proper spark at the right time, or even get a spark for that matter. One thing I've noticed was the discrepancy in the spark plug gaps on this forum (people were using different gaps).

Italianjoe1

iTrader: (6)

Gap, in my experience, is a personal thing. Start with a base setting, and lower or raise it a little to see what works best for you. Thats one of the little things that can vary from one engine to another. Start at .035 or so, if theres no knock, you can go higher, if there is, go smaller. Plugs are cheap as ****, don't be afraid to mess with them.

As far as tuning is concerned, Iridiums are a waste of money. If you are trying to see how long you can get your plugs to last, you aren't really concerned with the power you get from the engine. Use the coppers, change them before they get bad. Worked perfectly for me for 65K miles over 3 years in the last car, and for everyone else I set up on the same system.

JZK

iTrader: (1)

Okay thanks alot guys, that really helped.

Would the 2 step colder NGK Copper spark plugs affect my driving while Im not spraying? According to what you said, the gap must be small enough in order to still foul out. If the gap on the NGK 2step colder plugs are too big, then what am I supposed to do?

Italianjoe1

iTrader: (6)

No, the slightly colder should have no noticable effect on anything, I was running 3 colder on the cobalt, 9's instead of factory 6's, to help control detonation, and everything was perfect.

The gap should be the same, just changing the heat range shouldn't affect the gap. If it does, like I said, just adjust a little bit from whatever is close to normal as you see what works. Its not that critical, just one of those little fine tuning things that can help. There was a reason I had the fastest Cobalt around

JZK

iTrader: (1)

Alright awesome, so the 2 step colder plugs shouldn't affect anything with normal driving right? Can anyone else chime in to support or go against that?

Also, I'm planning on getting a ZEX or NX nitrous setup with the 125shot jet. That's 125 hp to the wheels right? Or is that to the crank?

So when I install the 2 step colder plugs, should there be any other precautionary measures I should take prior to running the 125 shot? I read the Nitrous Basics thread, just wanna make sure I'm not missing anything. I will be going completely safe with the Nitrous kit.. Going to have an electric bottle warmer so the bottle pressure is always heated up and at the right pressure. Will also get 2 guages; Bottle pressure & wideband. And of course, can't forget the TPS and RPM window & purge. Anything else?

Also, does anyone know how much timing should be added/taken out for a 125 shot?

Italianjoe1

iTrader: (6)

Jetting is numbers at the crank, so add about 100 hp at the wheels for a 125 shot, but that is really dependant on too many other factors to guess at it. Dyno and see what you actually gain, then adjust accordingly.

Your setup sounds pretty nice, I've installed nitrous in about 10 different cars, from very basic to really nice, automatic, factory looking systems, so if you have any questions or need help on something, let me know. I'm guessing you are buying a new kit? I would recommend a Holley (NOS brand) kit, from my experience they are really well done, superior components, and I really like the component design of thier kits, so you can really tailor the setup to exactly what you need. ZEX kits are fairly nice as well, a little overpriced IMO but very complete. I am not a fan of the ZEX box setup that contains both solenoids and everything, it makes it expensive (upwards of $200) if any one part goes bad, as you have to replace the whole thing, instead of just one solenoid as in most kits.

Timing, rule of thumb is 1 degree per 50hp of nitrous, so 2 degrees should be plenty, but test it and see, tune accordingly.

JZK

iTrader: (1)

Alright thanks so much, you've been more then helpful. I'm sure this thread will inform many others.

Italianjoe1

iTrader: (6)

I'm used to it, I've become somewhat of the 'nitrous guru' on Cobalt SS forums.

There's at least 5 Cobalts running around south FL with a nitrous kit on them that I put in

3hree5ive0ero

iTrader: (95)

Spark plug gaps aren't and shouldn't be a personal thing. There's a reason why they have specific gaps. With nitrous, the additional gas inside the combustion chamber makes it harder for the spark to jump between the two electrodes. However, .035" is recommended for most applications, it seems.


2 step colder spark plugs shouldn't affect your daily driving when you're off the spray, but there will be slight differences which you may or may not notice.


And as mentioned before, gap isn't the same thing as heat range. Heat range, I defined above. Gap is the distance between the ground electrode and the center electrode on the spark plug, where the spark for igniting the fuel/air mixture happens.


ZEX and NX are completely different. NX rates their jets at the wheels, while ZEX rates their jets at the crank. So, each of their 100 shots will not give you the exact same 100 horsepower (NX at wheels, ZEX at crank).


As far as the OP's list of nitrous accessories, it looks like you have most of the safety items down. However, there are other items you can add on to have a safer set up (i.e., lean cut-off switch, progressive controller, etc), although not necessary.


Timing is dependent on your car. However, generally, you can retard 2 degrees for every 50 shot, but it's highly recommended that you get a tune. Pulling 2 degrees all around isn't an excuse nor a replacement for a tune.


BTW, I'm glad to see/have another nitrous guy helping out. I was getting lonely here with a couple of other "regulars" in the nitrous subforum. So, welcome.

JZK

iTrader: (1)

I've decided to go with the dynotune wet kit, Comes with 50, 75, and 100 shot jets. I'm currently on my phone right now so I can't look up if dynotune sells a 125 or 150 shot jet seperate since the internet on my phone (sidekick) is so slow. >.> Does anyone know?

Also, does anyone know a quick estimate on how long it would take if I took my car to a shop to install the whole kit along with guages? Just want to get a general idea of how much labor it would be before I get ripped off, lol.

Italianjoe1

iTrader: (6)

A quality install with all the parts you have listed, done correctly and cleanly, will take the better part of a day. I usually charge people $100 to setup a fairly basic kit, which takes 3-4 hours depending on the specifics involved, but thats hiding all the wiring, making everything look really clean and nice.

Worst case, get in touch with me, I could install for you.

A.H

iTrader: (20)

JZK, I was in your same situation and actually still want nitrous. I got everything I neeeded for a safe setup including HR 1 step colder plugs. I was planning on the Dynotune kit with a 100 shot(i think they rate at the wheels). Only thing that stopped me was the need for a tune. For that, I went to talk in person to my trusted tuner, Tadashi From Technosquare. He is a reputable tuner that many people have faith in. Once I tell him about my future setup he goes above and beyond to tell me how bad it is for the car even with all the safetl equipment adn that he refuses to touch my car with nitrous in it let alone tune it.....This scared the **** outta me and I just put the idea aside so far even though I still want nitrous. I built my car and chose parts that would last and be reliable as I plan on keeping my car a daily driver for at least 6 years and I didn't want to ruin that will nitrous. If tadashi woudl have tuned it and didn't give me an hour talk, I would have it right now.

Italianjoe1

iTrader: (6)

Some people have an unhealty aversion to nitrous, it's perfectly safe when used correctly. That's why we tune for it, to make it safe. Its a legit power adder, yes it can be hard on parts, but so is boost if it is done half-assed. Like any good turbo setup, a nitrous setup needs the proper steps to be powerful, reliable, and safe. Supporting mods (exhaust, fuel system), management (WOT box, window switch), and tuning. If all the right parts are in place, the potential of a nitrous powered street car is amazing, the torque hit and broad powerband are simply addictive.

A.H

iTrader: (20)

Well how do you tune for it on a stock ECU where you only have one MAP. That's another conern I have. Let's say I do tune for nitrous, I would lose the refalsh and tune that Technosquare gave me, and when i'm not using nitrous I would not have as much HP as I do now or even have the car run as smoothly?

Italianjoe1

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, that is the downside of a nitrous tune, there is slightly less timing up top to allow for the nitrous add-on, so when you aren't spraying, you will be down 5-10 HP or so. Nothing serious, its a compromise you have to make.

One other option, is to run higher octane mix when you want to spray. Tune for 93, mix in a little 100+ when you want to open the bottle. I had done that on my Cobalt for a while.