Cosworth Plenum FI/NA: Pics Inside!
Originally Posted by gringott
+10 This plenum and the lead up to it reminds me of the Kinetix SSV pre-release fever that some members had.
Originally Posted by TENGAI
Heckling is something we usually see at a comedy club. On this forum, it's just plain annoying...
FWIW, I think that there are several shops that are breaking / going to break new ground this year on the VQ. If we can collectively keep our panties out of a bunch, then we may actually see some new products and concepts that help all of us push the envelope of performance.
Just my
FWIW, I think that there are several shops that are breaking / going to break new ground this year on the VQ. If we can collectively keep our panties out of a bunch, then we may actually see some new products and concepts that help all of us push the envelope of performance.
Just my
FWIW Cosworth makes some good products, very expensive, but very good..Sort of like an American Version of APS. NNA obviously felt the plenum was also a restriction to the former VQ motors since adding a secondary TB and dual intake plenum. This is also my opinion.It would be nice to see a N/A plenum make some good numbers.
17 HP at the motor is right on par with 13 whp at a 17-20% drive train loss to the wheels. This is right on level with the current plenums on the market.Coolectivly with a few other breathing mods, it would be nice to see some killer N/A VQ's.
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^^We never pitched the Cosworth is a crazy power plenum^^ I posted the benefits a few pages back, but I am sure its easy to get lost here through this huge thread. 
Until we actually TEST something, I tread pretty lightly, and do not post claims that I am uncertain about. I wish all vendors would do the same, as nothing is worse than a huge letdown.
We dont even know the final price of the plenum, which is why we arent charging anyone, and have given them the option to back out if the price is over $1000.
Even if the gains are comparable to a spacer, this thing looks incredible, and provides easy access to key engine components. But in terms of raw power production on an NA car, it might be right on par with a standard APS/Crawford plenum. It's pure speculation at this point. Cosworth did their testing on a bone stock VQ35, on an engine dyno. Real world performance, with tuning, might be better...or worse....but hopefully better!
It will be very interesting, however, to see how it performs at high boost levels.
Until we actually TEST something, I tread pretty lightly, and do not post claims that I am uncertain about. I wish all vendors would do the same, as nothing is worse than a huge letdown.
We dont even know the final price of the plenum, which is why we arent charging anyone, and have given them the option to back out if the price is over $1000.
Even if the gains are comparable to a spacer, this thing looks incredible, and provides easy access to key engine components. But in terms of raw power production on an NA car, it might be right on par with a standard APS/Crawford plenum. It's pure speculation at this point. Cosworth did their testing on a bone stock VQ35, on an engine dyno. Real world performance, with tuning, might be better...or worse....but hopefully better!
It will be very interesting, however, to see how it performs at high boost levels.
Last edited by Sharif@Forged; Mar 27, 2007 at 08:03 AM.
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Originally Posted by THE TECH
The only difference is that Cosworth does R&D. Kinetix just does blingsearch.
[QUOTE=Philthy][QUOTE=MRC Motorsports]17 CHP, so factor in the drivetrain loss of 20% and you net about 13 whp.
20% drivetain loss
- that's a bit of an overstatement for a 6MT of even a AT... AWD cars are roughly around 18% and that's even dependent on several factors...
Given all the b!tching you've been doing about Sharif and others posting on the Copper Head Gasket thread (supposedly you own each thread you post now
) I would say you should delete your post and stay away from the people you fear and b!tch about that posted on 'your' thread.
Actually if you take a 287hp Nissan 350Z and put it on the dyno Dynamics, with zero correction you will net from 220whp-235whp on average. This represents a 22%-17% drive train loss. Even Sharif would agree with me here that this is totally accurate.
Please do a little more "Google Racing" before you post towards me in a negative manner.
20% drivetain loss
- that's a bit of an overstatement for a 6MT of even a AT... AWD cars are roughly around 18% and that's even dependent on several factors...Given all the b!tching you've been doing about Sharif and others posting on the Copper Head Gasket thread (supposedly you own each thread you post now
) I would say you should delete your post and stay away from the people you fear and b!tch about that posted on 'your' thread.
Please do a little more "Google Racing" before you post towards me in a negative manner.
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
^^We never pitched the Cosworth is a crazy power plenum^^ I posted the benefits a few pages back, but I am sure its easy to get lost here through this huge thread.
Until we actually TEST something, I tread pretty lightly, and do not post claims that I am uncertain about. I wish all vendors would do the same, as nothing is worse than a huge letdown.
We dont even know the final price of the plenum, which is why we arent charging anyone, and have given them the option to back out if the price is over $1000.
Even if the gains are comparable to a spacer, this thing looks incredible, and provides easy access to key engine components. But in terms of raw power production on an NA car, it might be right on par with a standard APS/Crawford plenum. It's pure speculation at this point. Cosworth did their testing on a bone stock VQ35, on an engine. Real world performance, with tuning, might be better...or worse....but hopefully better!
It will be very interesting, however, to see how it performs at high boost levels.
Until we actually TEST something, I tread pretty lightly, and do not post claims that I am uncertain about. I wish all vendors would do the same, as nothing is worse than a huge letdown.
We dont even know the final price of the plenum, which is why we arent charging anyone, and have given them the option to back out if the price is over $1000.
Even if the gains are comparable to a spacer, this thing looks incredible, and provides easy access to key engine components. But in terms of raw power production on an NA car, it might be right on par with a standard APS/Crawford plenum. It's pure speculation at this point. Cosworth did their testing on a bone stock VQ35, on an engine. Real world performance, with tuning, might be better...or worse....but hopefully better!
It will be very interesting, however, to see how it performs at high boost levels.
I am looking foward to the Cosworths release, at least we know there will be real R&D behind it.
PS.Please advise Phil of the proper drive train loss on a DD dyno.
+1 on power past redline.
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I think drivetrain loss is understated on the DJ, since their whp numbers are higher, and probably a little overstated on the DD. Nobody really knows the drivetrain loss number, but its probably in the 16%-22% range, like you mentioned. Ever single VQ35 engine will make different power, so there is probably a margin of error of 5-7%, just based on manufacturing variances between different cars.
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Originally Posted by gringott
+10 This plenum and the lead up to it reminds me of the Kinetix SSV pre-release fever that some members had.
The manufacturer power claims from Kenitix were OUTRAGEOUS before they even released it. Remember the add showing 75whp improvement with a Vortech kit and their SSV plenum. It was utter BS...and unfortunately, a lot of people bought into it on the forums. Cosworth is doing no such thing...much better company.
I remember asking about bench-flow numbers or dyno charts or anything that actually proved any of the Kinetix claims and the Kinetix Kool-Aid Drinkers savaged me. Kinetix Quality is apparently an oxymoron. Thanks to Julian@MRC for reinforcing my skepticism, and preventing me from buying a "real purty engine cover".
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Originally Posted by RedLeader
I remember asking about bench-flow numbers or dyno charts or anything that actually proved any of the Kinetix claims and the Kinetix Kool-Aid Drinkers savaged me. Kinetix Quality is apparently an oxymoron. Thanks to Julian@MRC for reinforcing my skepticism, and preventing me from buying a "real purty engine cover".
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
We are trying our best to temper the fever. The manufacturer power claims from Kenitix were OUTRAGEOUS before they even released it. Remember the add showing 75whp improvement with a Vortech kit and their SSV plenum. It was utter BS...and unfortunately, a lot of people bought into it on the forums.
Cosworth is doing no such thing...much better company.
The manufacturer power claims from Kenitix were OUTRAGEOUS before they even released it. Remember the add showing 75whp improvement with a Vortech kit and their SSV plenum. It was utter BS...and unfortunately, a lot of people bought into it on the forums. Cosworth is doing no such thing...much better company.
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Originally Posted by gringott
I hope I wasn't misunderstood, what I meant was the CUSTOMERS had the fever - I know that you have not posted anything but conservative numbers, nothing at all outrageous. I say again, its a beautiful looking product, and should help those poor n/a guys squeeze out a few more desperately needed horsepower so SS Cobalts aren't smoking them. Plus it has the potential of making an average engine bay a show-winner. Other than cost, I see no negatives here.
[QUOTE=MRC Motorsports][QUOTE=Philthy]
wah wah wah - Actual drivetrain loss is not 22% - You didn't specify that you were referring to a Dyno Dynamics dyno and you made a general statement. There are so many factors involved we could start another post on this topic and debate for weeks.
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
Actually if you take a 287hp Nissan 350Z and put it on the dyno Dynamics, with zero correction you will net from 220whp-235whp on average. This represents a 22%-17% drive train loss. Even Sharif would agree with me here that this is totally accurate.
Please do a little more "Google Racing" before you post towards me in a negative manner.
Please do a little more "Google Racing" before you post towards me in a negative manner.
wah wah wah - Actual drivetrain loss is not 22% - You didn't specify that you were referring to a Dyno Dynamics dyno and you made a general statement. There are so many factors involved we could start another post on this topic and debate for weeks.
Last edited by Philthy; Apr 2, 2007 at 05:39 AM.
[QUOTE=Philthy][QUOTE=MRC Motorsports]
wah wah wah - Actual drivetrain lose is not 22% - You didn't specify that you were referring to a Dyno Dynamics dyno and you made a general statement. There are so many factors involved we could start another post on this topic and debate for weeks.
As stated by YOUR BOY, the almighty Sharif, so it must be factual Phil, now stop being such a know it all, when in fact you have nothing to contribute to the 350Z community. Other than your cash..
Originally Posted by Philthy
wah wah wah - Actual drivetrain lose is not 22% - You didn't specify that you were referring to a Dyno Dynamics dyno and you made a general statement. There are so many factors involved we could start another post on this topic and debate for weeks.
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
I think drivetrain loss is understated on the DJ, since their whp numbers are higher, and probably a little overstated on the DD. Nobody really knows the drivetrain loss number, but its probably in the 16%-22% range, like you mentioned. Ever single VQ35 engine will make different power, so there is probably a margin of error of 5-7%, just based on manufacturing variances between different cars.
[QUOTE=MRC Motorsports][QUOTE=Philthy]
You are a pretty pathetic - and it's only a matter of time before you get banned again DAKING350, MRC Motorsports - what's your new screen name going to be?
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
As stated by YOUR BOY, the almighty Sharif, so it must be factual Phil, now stop being such a know it all, when in fact you have nothing to contribute to the 350Z community. Other than your cash..
You are a pretty pathetic - and it's only a matter of time before you get banned again DAKING350, MRC Motorsports - what's your new screen name going to be?