taurran : "Testing new waters" with the Turbonetics ST
10-15-2007, 01:00 PM
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Okay, I just wanted to give a quick update as to the status of the car. To ease a lot of minds out there and to put away some gossip - the car is running, and Jeremy did some preliminary dyno runs and testing on Saturday. I was there to watch, and I must say the car sounds SICK. Here's what's going on...
The smoke issue is pretty much resolved. The car had some slight smoke now but its little enough to lead me to believe it's just burning off oil in the intake/exhaust tracts. We're not concerned with it now.
Now, on the dyno the car made around 500whp/tq on the current setup. This was with a conservative and unrefined "test" tune which wasn't tweaked. While he could have pulled more power out of it with a little tuning, this is NOT enough power to make us happy. After a bit of testing and studying the way the car was reacting to the addition of boost, we've decided we need a bigger turbo.
The turbo that's on the car is a 66mm compressor wheel with a bored out 60-1 housing. While this was recommended because of space constraints, we've decided that the bottleneck we're experiencing is the compressor housing itself. Basically, we were getting diminishing returns at higher boost, and also boost bleeding off until redline. We came to the conclusion that this was actually the air backing up at the compressor, slowing the turbo and causing compressor surge on the high end (which was causing power to taper off). At lower boost levels the car made power to redline.
The upgraded exhaust piping on the car seems to be working beautifully. The car was hitting a full 13psi no later than 4300 rpms, so no issue there.
What's next? We're working now on sizing for a larger compressor side on the turbo. Once that's in we'll be evaluating the lower intercooler piping and bringing it on par with the rest of the intake tract. The larger turbo means we'll have to swap out the radiator. We're looking at some aftermarket options normally for hondas.
Thanks to Jeremy for being persistant in getting the car making the power we want. This is what doing custom work is all about, and he's been very devoted to making the car right. Also, thanks to Reggie from Turbonetics for working with us on the turbo situation and being there for us when we've had issues.
Thats it for now, bigger and better things to come.
The smoke issue is pretty much resolved. The car had some slight smoke now but its little enough to lead me to believe it's just burning off oil in the intake/exhaust tracts. We're not concerned with it now.
Now, on the dyno the car made around 500whp/tq on the current setup. This was with a conservative and unrefined "test" tune which wasn't tweaked. While he could have pulled more power out of it with a little tuning, this is NOT enough power to make us happy. After a bit of testing and studying the way the car was reacting to the addition of boost, we've decided we need a bigger turbo.
The turbo that's on the car is a 66mm compressor wheel with a bored out 60-1 housing. While this was recommended because of space constraints, we've decided that the bottleneck we're experiencing is the compressor housing itself. Basically, we were getting diminishing returns at higher boost, and also boost bleeding off until redline. We came to the conclusion that this was actually the air backing up at the compressor, slowing the turbo and causing compressor surge on the high end (which was causing power to taper off). At lower boost levels the car made power to redline.
The upgraded exhaust piping on the car seems to be working beautifully. The car was hitting a full 13psi no later than 4300 rpms, so no issue there.
What's next? We're working now on sizing for a larger compressor side on the turbo. Once that's in we'll be evaluating the lower intercooler piping and bringing it on par with the rest of the intake tract. The larger turbo means we'll have to swap out the radiator. We're looking at some aftermarket options normally for hondas.
Thanks to Jeremy for being persistant in getting the car making the power we want. This is what doing custom work is all about, and he's been very devoted to making the car right. Also, thanks to Reggie from Turbonetics for working with us on the turbo situation and being there for us when we've had issues.
Thats it for now, bigger and better things to come.
Last edited by taurran; 10-15-2007 at 01:02 PM.
10-15-2007, 01:06 PM
#723
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a bigger turbo is going to kill your spool up time isn't it? if its hitting full boost at 4300 rpm now what do you expect to be hitting full boost at with a bigger turbo?
10-15-2007, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DanielW
a bigger turbo is going to kill your spool up time isn't it? if its hitting full boost at 4300 rpm now what do you expect to be hitting full boost at with a bigger turbo?
Right now I'm discussing this with a few parties to determine what the best option is. I would like to have it large enough to allow head room for future increases in power, but small enough to avoid surging under partial throttle on low boost.
10-15-2007, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto
Thats certainly good news. How much boost to make 500/500 on Jeremy's dyno? Did you get to drive it at that power? What did you think?
Nope, didn't bother driving it. He hadn't really tweaked the tune at that point, it was mainly just a base tune so that we could make sure it was building boost and making power right.
Also, we may be throwing out the exhaust setup I was planning on running and going with something totally new. By that point at the end of the night it was running with an open downpipe (which wasn't much louder than the open wastegate dump).
Last edited by taurran; 10-15-2007 at 01:44 PM.
10-15-2007, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by drift_projekt_Z
jeezus christ i cant wait. you give st owners like me hope lol
There's no doubt that this setup will be a one off setup from Performance Factory and Turbonetics. Whether they want to do this for others will be up to them.
10-15-2007, 02:25 PM
#729
Same Chit Different Person
This is Exactly what happened when we tried this, Im telling you bro its POINTLESS... how many times has turbonetics had to rebuild the the turbo due to the smoke???? 3 or 4, They so called "sponser" you and do it all for free... but just *** it up the first SEVERAL TIMES... yea same happened to me. I sat around and believed their bullchit for months. Although low boost there was no bottle neck and car made power and this was with stock tn piping.
BUT as soon as you raise the psi.... Power drops after 63XX rpm graph looks like chit, there is a bottle neck.. crap tons of rwtq but whp is just not there.... FROM 15 psi I had 524 rwhp and raised it to 19psi and was 541rwhp ONLY A GAIN OF 17WHP FOT 4 PSI
. I am well aware that you are running 3in piping out of the exhaust housing... I was planning on doing that to, but was told countless times it would be point less.
This is why I no longer trust, like, or want anything to do with "Turbo***ots", Going into the project, I was aware of the back pressure issue, and only solution was to take out the ac and make custome 3in piping... didn't want to do that. And again was told this would result to minamal gains, My egt's were through the roof as well.
All in All, My car Spent alot of hours on the Dyno to resolve the power issues and back pressure issues... changed numerous exhausts and various other things. It was a big headache, something which you are experiencing right now.
Just trying to help out bro, I was also tricked with the Free Turbo rubuild scheme...
IF i would have known it was going to cost me 20k the first time around... I WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE IT and did it right the first time.
Here are my dyno graphs.... 12psi, 15psi, and 19psi
Best of luck with what ever you do though.
BUT as soon as you raise the psi.... Power drops after 63XX rpm graph looks like chit, there is a bottle neck.. crap tons of rwtq but whp is just not there.... FROM 15 psi I had 524 rwhp and raised it to 19psi and was 541rwhp ONLY A GAIN OF 17WHP FOT 4 PSI
. I am well aware that you are running 3in piping out of the exhaust housing... I was planning on doing that to, but was told countless times it would be point less.This is why I no longer trust, like, or want anything to do with "Turbo***ots", Going into the project, I was aware of the back pressure issue, and only solution was to take out the ac and make custome 3in piping... didn't want to do that. And again was told this would result to minamal gains, My egt's were through the roof as well.
All in All, My car Spent alot of hours on the Dyno to resolve the power issues and back pressure issues... changed numerous exhausts and various other things. It was a big headache, something which you are experiencing right now.
Just trying to help out bro, I was also tricked with the Free Turbo rubuild scheme...
IF i would have known it was going to cost me 20k the first time around... I WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE IT and did it right the first time.Here are my dyno graphs.... 12psi, 15psi, and 19psi
Best of luck with what ever you do though.
It might have taken 13psi to get 500whp, but I bet you were like "SWEET, my car just made 500whp" 
10-15-2007, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by D350Z10
This is Exactly what happened when we tried this, Im telling you bro its POINTLESS... how many times has turbonetics had to rebuild the the turbo due to the smoke???? 3 or 4, They so called "sponser" you and do it all for free... but just *** it up the first SEVERAL TIMES... yea same happened to me. I sat around and believed their bullchit for months. Although low boost there was no bottle neck and car made power and this was with stock tn piping.
BUT as soon as you raise the psi.... Power drops after 63XX rpm graph looks like chit, there is a bottle neck.. crap tons of rwtq but whp is just not there.... FROM 15 psi I had 524 rwhp and raised it to 19psi and was 541rwhp ONLY A GAIN OF 17WHP FOT 4 PSI . I am well aware that you are running 3in piping out of the exhaust housing... I was planning on doing that to, but was told countless times it would be point less.
This is why I no longer trust, like, or want anything to do with "Turbo***ots", Going into the project, I was aware of the back pressure issue, and only solution was to take out the ac and make custome 3in piping... didn't want to do that. And again was told this would result to minamal gains, My egt's were through the roof as well.
All in All, My car Spent alot of hours on the Dyno to resolve the power issues and back pressure issues... changed numerous exhausts and various other things. It was a big headache, something which you are experiencing right now.
Just trying to help out bro, I was also tricked with the Free Turbo rubuild scheme... IF i would have known it was going to cost me 20k the first time around... I WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE IT and did it right the first time.
Here are my dyno graphs.... 12psi, 15psi, and 19psi
Best of luck with what ever you do though.
BUT as soon as you raise the psi.... Power drops after 63XX rpm graph looks like chit, there is a bottle neck.. crap tons of rwtq but whp is just not there.... FROM 15 psi I had 524 rwhp and raised it to 19psi and was 541rwhp ONLY A GAIN OF 17WHP FOT 4 PSI
. I am well aware that you are running 3in piping out of the exhaust housing... I was planning on doing that to, but was told countless times it would be point less.This is why I no longer trust, like, or want anything to do with "Turbo***ots", Going into the project, I was aware of the back pressure issue, and only solution was to take out the ac and make custome 3in piping... didn't want to do that. And again was told this would result to minamal gains, My egt's were through the roof as well.
All in All, My car Spent alot of hours on the Dyno to resolve the power issues and back pressure issues... changed numerous exhausts and various other things. It was a big headache, something which you are experiencing right now.
Just trying to help out bro, I was also tricked with the Free Turbo rubuild scheme...
IF i would have known it was going to cost me 20k the first time around... I WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE IT and did it right the first time.Here are my dyno graphs.... 12psi, 15psi, and 19psi
Best of luck with what ever you do though.
10-15-2007, 02:37 PM
#732
Originally Posted by diwun67
What shop did the work on your car? Craig's car is in more than capable hands, I believe it WILL make the power they're looking for WITH a good curve
But the Majority of the work was done by THE LIEING STEELING CROOKS AT TUNING FACTORY, WARNING DONT BUY ANYTHING FROM THEM ON THIS SITE, THERE SHOP IS CLOSED BUT THERE STILL SELLING PARTS WITHOUT A VENDOR LICENSE, THEY HAVE SCREWED NUMEROUS CUSTOMERS OUT OF THOUSANDS, NUMEROUS ON THIS SITE AS WELL
Sorry back on topic
10-15-2007, 02:39 PM
#733
we fully redid ALL the exhaust piping, from the heads to the turbo and from the turbo all the way down, there is no bottlenecking anywhere but in the turbo. TN thought we were going to put the turbo in the exact same spot and there were fitment issues with a bigger turbo. we have moved the turbo all around into different places. we are very happy with the placement of it now.
we have a 2.5 inch uppipe with a t4 flange on it, with a nice straight 3 inch downpipe. with the right turbo on it, it WILL make big power for sure.
updates later this week!!
we have a 2.5 inch uppipe with a t4 flange on it, with a nice straight 3 inch downpipe. with the right turbo on it, it WILL make big power for sure.
updates later this week!!
10-15-2007, 02:50 PM
#735
Originally Posted by Audible Mayhem
we fully redid ALL the exhaust piping, from the heads to the turbo and from the turbo all the way down, there is no bottlenecking anywhere but in the turbo. TN thought we were going to put the turbo in the exact same spot and there were fitment issues with a bigger turbo. we have moved the turbo all around into different places. we are very happy with the placement of it now.
we have a 2.5 inch uppipe with a t4 flange on it, with a nice straight 3 inch downpipe. with the right turbo on it, it WILL make big power for sure.
updates later this week!!
we have a 2.5 inch uppipe with a t4 flange on it, with a nice straight 3 inch downpipe. with the right turbo on it, it WILL make big power for sure.
updates later this week!!
Gt35r
10-15-2007, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by D350Z10
This is Exactly what happened when we tried this, Im telling you bro its POINTLESS... how many times has turbonetics had to rebuild the the turbo due to the smoke???? 3 or 4, They so called "sponser" you and do it all for free... but just *** it up the first SEVERAL TIMES... yea same happened to me. I sat around and believed their bullchit for months. Although low boost there was no bottle neck and car made power and this was with stock tn piping.
BUT as soon as you raise the psi.... Power drops after 63XX rpm graph looks like chit, there is a bottle neck.. crap tons of rwtq but whp is just not there.... FROM 15 psi I had 524 rwhp and raised it to 19psi and was 541rwhp ONLY A GAIN OF 17WHP FOT 4 PSI . I am well aware that you are running 3in piping out of the exhaust housing... I was planning on doing that to, but was told countless times it would be point less.
This is why I no longer trust, like, or want anything to do with "Turbo***ots", Going into the project, I was aware of the back pressure issue, and only solution was to take out the ac and make custome 3in piping... didn't want to do that. And again was told this would result to minamal gains, My egt's were through the roof as well.
All in All, My car Spent alot of hours on the Dyno to resolve the power issues and back pressure issues... changed numerous exhausts and various other things. It was a big headache, something which you are experiencing right now.
Just trying to help out bro, I was also tricked with the Free Turbo rubuild scheme... IF i would have known it was going to cost me 20k the first time around... I WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE IT and did it right the first time.
Here are my dyno graphs.... 12psi, 15psi, and 19psi
Best of luck with what ever you do though.
BUT as soon as you raise the psi.... Power drops after 63XX rpm graph looks like chit, there is a bottle neck.. crap tons of rwtq but whp is just not there.... FROM 15 psi I had 524 rwhp and raised it to 19psi and was 541rwhp ONLY A GAIN OF 17WHP FOT 4 PSI
. I am well aware that you are running 3in piping out of the exhaust housing... I was planning on doing that to, but was told countless times it would be point less.This is why I no longer trust, like, or want anything to do with "Turbo***ots", Going into the project, I was aware of the back pressure issue, and only solution was to take out the ac and make custome 3in piping... didn't want to do that. And again was told this would result to minamal gains, My egt's were through the roof as well.
All in All, My car Spent alot of hours on the Dyno to resolve the power issues and back pressure issues... changed numerous exhausts and various other things. It was a big headache, something which you are experiencing right now.
Just trying to help out bro, I was also tricked with the Free Turbo rubuild scheme...
IF i would have known it was going to cost me 20k the first time around... I WOULD HAVE NEVER DONE IT and did it right the first time.Here are my dyno graphs.... 12psi, 15psi, and 19psi
Best of luck with what ever you do though.
The compressor side of the turbo needs to be larger. If anyone were to try this in the future I'd recommend going with at least a FULL T66 turbo or larger. We'll know soon enough.
This is going to work because we've got people that are committed to making it work (Jeremy, AJ, Reggie, etc). I won't accept failure and result to complaining about anything.
10-15-2007, 03:15 PM
#738
Originally Posted by taurran
No offense, but the big difference here is that we are actually being objective and know what we're doing. It has nothing to do with the exhaust piping at this point, and I'm not sure if your problems were even related to the exhaust piping in the first place.
The compressor side of the turbo needs to be larger. If anyone were to try this in the future I'd recommend going with at least a FULL T66 turbo or larger. We'll know soon enough.
This is going to work because we've got people that are committed to making it work (Jeremy, AJ, Reggie, etc). I won't accept failure and result to complaining about anything.
The compressor side of the turbo needs to be larger. If anyone were to try this in the future I'd recommend going with at least a FULL T66 turbo or larger. We'll know soon enough.
This is going to work because we've got people that are committed to making it work (Jeremy, AJ, Reggie, etc). I won't accept failure and result to complaining about anything.
I am aware of that, the t66 compresor wheel was blowing hot air with the boost was raised, My hybrid turbo could not hold big power.
Like you said, you need a FULL t66 turbo with a t4 flange( which you already have right?) The 60-1 housing will not work, when I noticed how they bored my 60-1 housing to put the 66 wheel in.. it was pathetic. We thought of this, but a larger overall turbo would require.. custom radiator, and various adjustments in place of the stock tn turbo posistion.
Last edited by D350Z10; 10-15-2007 at 04:49 PM.
10-15-2007, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto
I may have missed this, but are you keeping your A/C Craig?
The car was nice and chilly the week I was driving it for break in.