Well, went NASA racing at Hastings this weekend, HPDE 3, and it was an interesting time, definitely! All in all, I would do it again, but there were some problems.

The Good

1. Hastings is an awesome course! Here is a track map You can get an idea of how nice a course it is from the map, but the actual drive is even better. 2.2 miles, 13 turns, smooth as glass. No long, boring straightaways, only lots of turns, so that high power cars like mine are having a hard time keeping up with the Miatas!

2. I got new wheels and tires, BF Goodrich g-Force R1's. R compounds, stick like nothing else. Even better, though, they start squeeling when they start loosing grip, and then right at the edge, feel a little bumpy, so you now when you are going to lose it, unlike some other R compounds, or so I am told.

3. Facilities at Hastings are very nice. Quiznos delivers trackside, they have a concessions stand, nice bathrooms with showers, even, and a good spot to view the track. At least when the bleachers weren't blown away by a tornado the previous Wednesday


The Bad

1. I mentioned the new tires and wheels. Well, I have the same wheels with snow tires for the winter, and they clear my stoptechs just fine. However, (uh oh!), these wheels, despite being the exact same size and make and model as my winter wheels don't clear my stoptechs. At least, they don't clear them when you are braking hard into the turn!!! My first run, I kept hearing a thumping sound when I was braking hard. Thinking that this is not a good thing, I pulled in about halfway through the first session. Sure enough, there was some metal missing from my stoptechs!!!!!!! So, between the 1st and second session, I was running madly around town trying to find wheel spacers. Luckily, NAPA had some. Unluckily, they were thicker than I wanted, which brings me to my next point:

2. When using spacers, ensure you have enough thread on the lug studs to engage the lug nuts. I did, just barely. However, I must have torqued them down just a bit too much in an effort to ensure that I would safe on the track. I discovered this on Sunday, when I tried to remove my street tires (which I put back on Saturday night) and put my race tires on. I had a lug nut on the left front wheel which would spin freely, but I could not get it off the lug stud, which meant my righ front wheel could not be removed. So, after messing with it for about an hour, I decided that with all the little things that had gone wrong (see Ugly point number 1), it was time to call it a weekend. I packed up and began the long drive home, which brings me to my next point.

3. It's a damn long drive to Hastings from the Springs! Almost 7 hours, and then you throw in the hour time change, which hurts you going there. On the other hand, it helps coming back. Either way, it's a long drive through some real podunk towns. Podunk so much that the majority of the towns had three types of fuel: 87 unleaded, dyed diesel, and clear diesel! So, my poor little turboed G almost had to drink some 87 octane Fortunately, we finally hit somewhere that had 91, although I think we took the last little bit from their tank, since it pumped very slow!


The Ugly

1. Remember I mentioned the thumped I was hearing? Well, that was my front wheels taking a little metal off my stoptechs. Fortunately, my stoptechs came through just fine, although they aren't as pretty anymore. Unfortunately, the vibration must have made a nut come loose on my right front endlink, which came off sometime during the day. I knew my front end was feeling just a bit loose all day, and when I removed my race tires Saturday night, I noticed an endlink bolt was missing! Luckily, somethere had a bolt that was a tight fit, but went through the two holes (endlink, and supension) and a nut that fit as well. Ghetto fix, but it worked. I never found out how that would work on the track, though, since I left Sunday monring before any runs because of the lug stud fiasco. Either way, though, I ran all or most of the day without an effective front sway bar. I wonder how much better I would have done with it...

2. It's all about who you know! Apparently, a good friend of the owner of the track pulled some strings, and got let on the track to run with one of the groups. Unfortunately, he was running wiht my group, HPDE 3. Even more unfortunately, the guy had way too much car for his skill level. He was driving a Porsche GT3, and had about enough driving skill and knowledge for a Geo Metro. He drove very aggresively, broke the majority of the HPDE 3 rules (no passing without a point by, etc...) He ended his first session off the track into the mud, luckily for him not damaging his car. We all thought he would not be let back on the track, but somehow, he was. Again, it's all who you know. So, he repeated his misadventures, ending up off the track again, but this time caving in the right rear quarter panel, right taillight, and right exhaust. It was painful to see the damage on such a beautiful car, but he deserved it. Unfortunately, he involved someone else in his accident. While not damaging the other persons car, he did manage to get this other person suspended for the rest of the day because of his claims that this other person caused the accident. I did not see any of it, but based on the Prosche drivers actual driving I have no doubt it was actually the Porsche drivers fault.

3. One final Ugly: When I got home today, I tried removing my wheels to see the damages. I managed to damage three lug studs. One on the right front and two on the left front. The work fine for my regular wheels, torque down to 85 ft/lbs no problem, but the ends of them are damaged, and there is no way I can use spacers again on them. So, I need to get new lug studs for my front wheels. Anyone have any recommendations for some good lug studs, slightly longer than stock so I can use 5 mm spacers so that my race wheels will clear my stoptechs! Also, how involved of a job is it to remove the old lug studs and rreplace them?


Finally, I would have to say that were I given a choice to do it all over again or not, I would, in a heartbeat, do it again. The track at Hastings is so great that I just could not pass it up again. Plus, I'm getting to know a good number of folk involved in NASA, and they are all great people. Friendly, willing to help out, and just fun to go driving with. All in all, a great weekend, and a great group of people!

Dave

 

Good to know you got back in one piece.

See if you can find out the story from the guy that was booted from the track. That would be an interesting read.

 

Eric and I tried doing wheels studs on his 06 z. My air tools @ 90 lbs wouldn't budge the bolts. I would make sure you brakes are nice and cold and those bolts have some pb lube on them.

 

I talked to him later that day. Suffice it to say, Porsche owner was in the wrong.

 

I might just pay to have that done, then. I've heard they can be tapped out with a hammer, but....

 

Dave,

Glad you had a little fun & made it home safe. If you need wheels studs I have 4 or 5 extra sitting in my tool box. Give Ada a call and you can have what you need. Replacing is a bit of a PITA, but simple. Here is a link for directions: http://autorepair.about.com/od/fixit..._stud_repl.htm

 

Glad to hear you had fun, and that the track lived up to it's lofty expectations. It's too bad about the Porsche causing trouble in your session, though. Why does it always seem to be Porsches that cause trouble in HPDE sessions? Hmmmm.......

Very sorry to hear about the problems with your wheels/brakes, and the lugs. What part of the wheel was rubbing against the caliper? Was it only on one of the wheels?

As for longer wheel studs, I believe Nismo makes some, but you might also try arpbolts.com. I've never replaced the lugs myself, but I've heard that it can a pain to get everything lined up right, and to generate enough force to knock them out the back.

Glad you made it back okay, and that you were still able to have fun in light of everything else that happened.

 

It was both of the front wheels. I actually found some loinger wheel studs, from www.splparts.com They should get here sometime this week, along with a replacement nut and bolt for my SPL endlinks.

Rob, I'll take a good luck at those instructions, and see whether I want to do it myself or not. Thanks for the link!

 

Hey Dave, good write up. It sounds like you had a great time despite the issues you stated.

I’ve had the same issues you had with the lug nut studs. I still have (2) unused studs if you need them. Anyway, I had two of my bolts seize up on the treads and break the spines loose so they were spinning freely. I ended up having to drill through the lug nuts and through the bolt to get them off. After that it was relatively easy to replace the studs. In a nut shell, take the caliper off, take the rotor off, spin the hub to line up the bad bolt with the clearance notch in the back, then take the bolt out or hit it was a brass hammer to knock it out, replace with good stud, tighten up with an open hex nut, rinse and repeat if necessary. Good luck with the repair.

David

 

Dave- Very nice write-up on your adventures. Sorry to hear about your early departure, but I want to say GOOD CALL on quitting rather than risking everything on using those damaged studs! It's always a temptation to compromise safety because of the time, distance traveled, cost, etc, but none of it ever makes sense. You simply made a good decision.

You've already sourced the new lugs, but I wanted to add a word of caution on the use of spacers. They do add to the axial bearing load of your wheel bearings. Having just gone through and replaced all four corners on my '03 track model, I'd can tell you they are not cheap! Like GaryM05, I'd wonder why the wheels were rubbing in the first place and spend some effort to solve the wheel interference problem.

Glad you had a good time at MPH- all in all, sounds like the GOOD prevailed over the bad and ugly.

 

Keep a close eye on spl as well. I have their endlinks and rear camber arms. Love em, but the cambers showed up and the brackets had to be sanded down on both sides almost a quarter of an inch so im worried they might be loosing thier fitment standards. Havent talked to them about it yet so not sure whats up. Just wanted to let you know had some issues with them.

 

I'll let you know how the SPL lug studs fit. I've had good experiences with their endlinks, so far.

Dave

 

I will literally only be using the spacers with my race wheels at the track. And the good quality spacers I have sitting at home are only 5mm, unlike the NAPA ones I used this weekend, which were 10 mm. So, the additional load shouldn't be too bad.

I had originally bought the 5mm spacers when I thought my winter wheels wouldn't fit over my stoptechs. Inexplicably, my race tires, which are the same exact wheels, rub. They don't rub in normal straightline driving, but only in hard bracking, and turning, when the lateral load is obviously a bit different. And they barely rub, but enough to cause problems. I think even 2mm spacers would work, thats how little they rub.

Regardless, I have to do something, and I think the 5mm spacers are the right solution. Certainly, getting rid of my Stoptechs is not an answer!

Dave

 

For sure, love those endlinks, you were there when we put mine in heh. And to their credit, i just got a PM from them concerned about the camber arms. Why i go to them and no one else for stuff like that, great product, fast shipping, fare price, and great customer service.

 

Thats right, I almost forgot about that!

 

WOW! Way to deal with problems as they come up! I would of just thrown in the towel!!!
Sean

 

Bah! Road course racing/HPDE is too much fun to give up so easily, but like David said, you always have to think about safety, and by Sunday morning, it was getting time to add up all the little things and woder if there was going to be a catastrophic failure.

 

I don't have a doubt about the fault, it's just interesting to know his thoughts about what happened and what led up to it.

Aren't there corner workers that could have verified who was at fault to begin with and didn't the NASA super make a ruling or was it all the track owner's call?

 

Well, part of the reason was the other guys attitude afterwards. He did have a bad attitude about the whole thing, even though he was in the right, and apparently, there was some arguing going on between him and the instructors/group leaders. That probably contributed to his suspension for the rest of the day.

On the other hand, he did not suffer multi thousand dollar damage to his Porsche (which only had 700 miles on the odo!)

 

The devil is in the details that get left out. A bad attitude will get you kicked out every time.

What kind of licensing did the P driver have? Has he ever taken a course safety class? If not, the "who you know" should never have been a factor on letting him drive with the group. NASA didn't have a say on his going out there with g3? It was their event and everyone should have gone through the proper rules that NASA had in place.

I just don't buy the "who you know" BS. If he didn't have the credentials for the group he was running in, then NASA should not have let him out on the track.

I know my limitations on the track and am content to hot lap at my own speed.