I agree, but I am not in charge. He was not a certified HPDE 3 driver with NASA, that I can say. Beyond that, I don't know.

 

Just wanted to throw in a quick update, sorry to hijack. SPL got my issue resolved with fitment, only on the camber arms, its been resolved VERY fast, and im real happy about it all. They really do take care of their customers, so for all yall who need parts, these guys are your best source!

 

Like I said, I've been very happy with SPL so far.

Dave

 

Wow. Great write-up. The track sounds awesome, and not too far away. Maybe a Colorado Z track weekend out there?

Sorry to hear the bad and ugly side of things. You made the right call to call it a day and not risk any more damage, or any other drivers on the track.

I'm with Darrel, I want to know more about the Porsche guy and why the stewards let something like this escalate into an accident. I've been considering NASA a long time over SCCA due to what I perceive to be better rules, but this kind of story is disconcerning.

Either way, I'm glad you might the right call and returned home safe with minor problems, rather than a major incident.

Will

 

Update: installing lug studs was much easier than expected. It took me probably 2 hours for the front wheels, and I was taking my time, chatting with my wife, really going slow about it. the old lug studs came out really easily, and the new ones went in pretty easy as well. Really, it was just an exercise in brute force, and I'm good at that...

 

FYI for everyone... Brute = Marine. So Marine force, which is the badest force there is.

Glad to hear you got it fix!

 

Did you have to take the whole caliper bracket off? what needed to come off to get these out/in? Also, did you have problems with the bolts?

 

No kidding. Something that's 'easier than expected' to a Marine is something that means 'call the professionals' to me.

Dave - Glad to hear that the replacement went well. Sorry you had to do it, but at least it was something you were able to tackle in the comfort of your own garage.

I've been trying to stay away from playing armchair quarterback from 500 miles away about the NASA event, as we all know how easy it can be to try to do that, but I am surprised to hear that the Porsche was able to make it back on track after his first session.

I can see someone bluffing their way into group 3 for at least one session (that can happen with any HPDE organization on the planet, no matter how closely they think they control their events), but I do have to wonder how he was let back out after dis-regarding the passing rules so blatantly, assuming that these infractions were noticed and pointed out to officials by others, and still drive in such a manner that he could have damaged his own car and have been in a position close enough to another to get them to take the blame for it. However, not having been there, it's really not fair for me to try and say...for all I know, he was pulled aside by an official after his first session, reminded (forcefully) of the rules, and showed enough contrition or whatever to convince NASA that he was okay to send back out there.

I would encourage anyone who is actually considering attending a NASA event (and not just trying to stir things up) who has concerns about this to email Dave Balingit, NASA's regional director, and ask him directly. Unlike many other organizations, NASA's leadership is very easy to get in touch with. NASA Rocky Mountain's contact info can be found at http://www.nasarockymountain.com.

If nothing else, that unfortunate episode goes to show that we've all got to take ultimate responsibility for ourselves on track, be aware of our surroundings, and try (although of course it's not always possible) to not get into situations where sheet metal can get bent. Dave is a perfect example of that: when he found himself in a position where he didn't feel it would be a good idea to continue driving his car on track, given it's mechanical condition, he packed it all up and left the track early. That's a tough thing to do, and it's something to be applauded. How many of us can honestly say that we wouldn't try to stick it out for 'just one more session' and see how it goes? I'm not sure I would have been able to do that. Great job, Dave! There will be other opportunities to run Hastings, and hopefully I'll be able to make it for one of them.

 

I'm curious as to what your wheel specs are... obviously, to me at least, the wheels cannot take the added loads brought on by the R-comps.

It sucks to tell you this, but it sounds like you need some better wheels for your track tires. I know spacers are used often, but it really is not ideal for track use... especially when using r-comps. You may have fixed the symptom, but you haven't cured the problem.

 

Remove wheels. Remove calipers and pads. Remove rotors. Remove one bolt from caliper bracker and turn out the way. Pound out old lug studs. Insert new lug studs, use provide washers and nuts to pull the new lug studs into the holes. Replace everything in reverse order. Torque down lug nuts. Go for a short drive. Retorque lug nuts. Go for a longer drive. Retorque lug nuts.

It's actually pretty simple, everything is pretty self explanatory/visible. One of the easier jobs I have done on my car so far.

As for Mr Porsche, yes, he got a stern talking to after the first session, and was able to convince enough people that he would be nicer/more rules following.

And as Gary says, this is not normal NASA procedure. I've been very impressed with NASA so far, especially with safety issues and concerns. If you are on the fence, I would definitely recommend emailing Dave B. and asking him about the situation and NASA in general. When I first started, I emailed him, discussing what HPDE group I should fall under, and we talked a good bit about my past experience, and maturity, etc... Very easy guy to talk with, and very reasonable.

Finally, about the wheels, I really don't know why these rub when my snow wheels don't. I think maybe since they are different years, the tolerances are just slightly different. And I understand about spacers not being ideal, but they are hub centric, well made, 5 mm spacers. So we are not talking a large change in the lateral G load.

Dave

 

Oh, yeah, was it tough, considering I had driven 7 hours to Hastings, pulled a trailer with my G, dropped $200 for the hotel room (there was a softball tournament in town that weekend, and all hotel prices were jacked up!) and Hastings was such a nice track!

I spent some time at the gym the next day hitting the punching bag to get out my frustration, but you are right, it was the right decision to make. It hurt, though.

 

Please explain why you don't think there's a large change in lateral load.

My whole point is that with the spacers, you may have stopped the annoying symptom of the wheel rubbing against the caliper, but you have not solved the much large problem as to why they are rubbing in the first place. Either the wheels are cheap and of poor quality and should not be used on track (especially with R-compounds) or your hubs are so completely shot that the whole thing is shifting under load to allow for contact.

No matter what, you're asking for trouble if you don't fix the underlying problem. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but I don't want to see you post after your next event saying you're going to sue the wheel manufacturer or something because the rim failed and you totaled your car.

 

What I meant, is that there is not a large change in lateral load in comparison to a larger spacer, such as a 10, 15, 20, or 25 mm spacer.


I would probably call it a dangerous situation rather than annoying, but you say to-may-to, I say toe-mah-toe


While the wheels are not high dollar, bling, bling, super light weight forged wheels, they are pretty good quality, strong wheels. ASA JH-8's, in 18x8.5 and 18x9.5.

I inspected the spots where it is rubbing on the wheel, and you can see a slight marring of the finish, but almost nothing compared to what it did to my stoptech calipers. I'd post pictures up, but that's too much trouble. The wheels weren't even damaged at all.

Thanks for your comments, I do appreciate the advice. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I appreciate it. And while I cetainly would be able to sue, I would almost definitely lose if I tried. I don't think that will ever be an issue, however.

Oh, and my hubs are not shot, either.

 

Ok, better late then never; here are the pics of my Stoptechs with some metal scrubbed off, and pics of the inside of the wheels. All cosmetic damage, but it does look ugly on the ST's

Dave

 

Wow. That is weird for same size/offset wheels. Thinking about powder coating the ST now?

 

They still work great, which is the main reason I got them, so probably not. I'll get some touch up paint for them, though.