Lawyer, Law office in so cal?
Lawyer, Law office in so cal?
Hey guys, I am not seeking legal advice.
Just wondering if any members on this board are lawyers in so cal? or know of any lawyers maybe their your parents, sibling friend, fellow z enthusiast, in so cal. that will be willing to just chat with me about life as a lawyer, law as a career, maybe show me how a typical day is for yourself as an attorney?
Reason being is that after I graduated from undergrad last year, I have taken about 1.5 year off to work, gain experience and save money for law school.
It really is about that time for me to get serious and would like to get some inside knowledge of life as an attorney before I take the plunge.
I've already taken the LSAT and was accepted to law school straight out of undergrad, but decided to hold off to save money, gain experience and to make sure law was the right choice. Im really itching to pursue law, but would just like to experience it first hand, esp. through the eyes of those that own their own practice.
I've spoken to some members on this board who are attorneys, but they all live outside of So cal.
I work as a management consultant full time m-f, but I'm willing to take a day off to maybe tour an office? shadow your work? discuss your experience in law as a career.. I'll pay for lunch, I'll pay for your advice, I'm just asking for some insight from those with experience. I'm pretty open to all areas/practice of law, but looking spec for those who have worked/working in medium/BIGlaw firms, or run their own practice.
thanks for the help!
Just wondering if any members on this board are lawyers in so cal? or know of any lawyers maybe their your parents, sibling friend, fellow z enthusiast, in so cal. that will be willing to just chat with me about life as a lawyer, law as a career, maybe show me how a typical day is for yourself as an attorney?
Reason being is that after I graduated from undergrad last year, I have taken about 1.5 year off to work, gain experience and save money for law school.
It really is about that time for me to get serious and would like to get some inside knowledge of life as an attorney before I take the plunge.
I've already taken the LSAT and was accepted to law school straight out of undergrad, but decided to hold off to save money, gain experience and to make sure law was the right choice. Im really itching to pursue law, but would just like to experience it first hand, esp. through the eyes of those that own their own practice.
I've spoken to some members on this board who are attorneys, but they all live outside of So cal.
I work as a management consultant full time m-f, but I'm willing to take a day off to maybe tour an office? shadow your work? discuss your experience in law as a career.. I'll pay for lunch, I'll pay for your advice, I'm just asking for some insight from those with experience. I'm pretty open to all areas/practice of law, but looking spec for those who have worked/working in medium/BIGlaw firms, or run their own practice.
thanks for the help!
Last edited by mlam002; Apr 26, 2007 at 10:12 AM.
I am finishing last semester of law school, if that counts. I also recently sold my soul, but think I got a fair price for it. I'd definitely be willing to talk to you if you're interested. And I never turn down a free lunch.
Let me know.
Also, Blaukal, where are you at? I have a feeling (wild guessing from your name) that we've met.
Let me know.
Also, Blaukal, where are you at? I have a feeling (wild guessing from your name) that we've met.
Korki, that explains a lot. I'm at one of those 1,000 person firms that pays top end of the salary and wants to be a NY law firm but isn't... 2000 grad from U. of MN. What school, and where'd you end up (so I can place you in the proper place in the prestige heirarchy)?
BTW, what happened to the OP?
BTW, what happened to the OP?
You're not who I thought you were, I don't think. I was at a reception once, drinking heavily, and vaguely remember talking to someone from a big firm about cars and the Z in particular. This is before I was even looking for one, so I don't remember many specifics, but I think he had a roadster.
In any event, I'm at UCLA (for 2 weeks until graduation, so ready to be done). I'm at one of those New York firms that has the tiny (< 50 people) LA Office. I think we have 700 people firm-wide. I don't want to post the name (in case somebody stumbles on here and sees some of my antics in other threads), but we're up there.
I'm curious about the OP also. A real law student in training would have appointments by now (which isn't a good thing).
In any event, I'm at UCLA (for 2 weeks until graduation, so ready to be done). I'm at one of those New York firms that has the tiny (< 50 people) LA Office. I think we have 700 people firm-wide. I don't want to post the name (in case somebody stumbles on here and sees some of my antics in other threads), but we're up there.
I'm curious about the OP also. A real law student in training would have appointments by now (which isn't a good thing).
Originally Posted by blaukal
where in SoCal are you? and you mentioned big firm life -- are you prepared to sell you soul to the devil?
(thus spake a big-firm OC lawyer)
(thus spake a big-firm OC lawyer)
Originally Posted by Korki Buchek
You're not who I thought you were, I don't think. I was at a reception once, drinking heavily, and vaguely remember talking to someone from a big firm about cars and the Z in particular. This is before I was even looking for one, so I don't remember many specifics, but I think he had a roadster.
In any event, I'm at UCLA (for 2 weeks until graduation, so ready to be done). I'm at one of those New York firms that has the tiny (< 50 people) LA Office. I think we have 700 people firm-wide. I don't want to post the name (in case somebody stumbles on here and sees some of my antics in other threads), but we're up there.
I'm curious about the OP also. A real law student in training would have appointments by now (which isn't a good thing).
In any event, I'm at UCLA (for 2 weeks until graduation, so ready to be done). I'm at one of those New York firms that has the tiny (< 50 people) LA Office. I think we have 700 people firm-wide. I don't want to post the name (in case somebody stumbles on here and sees some of my antics in other threads), but we're up there.
I'm curious about the OP also. A real law student in training would have appointments by now (which isn't a good thing).
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From: SoCal
What law school did you get into? Life as a lawyer is very different depending on what kind of a law firm you get hired by. If you graduate from a very good law school and have very good grades, you will get hired by a large, pretigous national or international firm. I can tell you about that life.
If you end up at a smaller firm or hang out your own shingle your life (and income) will be very different and I don't know much about that.
If you end up at a smaller firm or hang out your own shingle your life (and income) will be very different and I don't know much about that.
Originally Posted by Panda350z
This is an interesting thread...I am also looking into attending law school. Any one in the OC want to help me out?
Oh and to all the people on this thread looking to be a lawyer or are in law school......what did you undergrad in? What kind of LSAT scores did you guys get? Thanks!
Originally Posted by kourosH
Oh and to all the people on this thread looking to be a lawyer or are in law school......what did you undergrad in? What kind of LSAT scores did you guys get? Thanks!
As to the LSAT -- it's the gatekeeper to getting into a top 20 school. I hit the 99th percentile, and had a bunch of law school opportunities; and big law firms will really only hire from the top 25% of the top 20 law schools, subject to some exceptions. My experience is that it is really, really competitive, even at the top law schools, if you want to get a big firm job and make $145k to start (which is now the going rate for incoming grads). If you just want to save the world, or chase ambulances, you can go to any law school and graduate anywhere in your class.
If you're really serious about selling your soul, check out some blog-sites like abovethelaw .com, infirmation .com and monkeyscribe .com, and see how petty, egocentric and self-absorbed us big firm lawyers are. I still think I made the right choice, but it's not for everyone. For example, less than 1% of big firm lawyers make partner at the firm they started at out of law school. Turnover is huge. Minorities and women are seriously underrepresented. Your life is measured in 6 minute increments. You regularly pull all-nighters, and regularly work weekends.
If you're trying to make partner (and not just hide in the corner and get a huge salary until they kick you out), workweeks at big firms are, on average, about 50-60 hours, with spikes of 80 hours or more.
Last year was busy for me -- I ended up billing (which is the way we measure our lives) 2,500 hours, and "working" (including business development, administrative matters and sitting in the office during working hours reading the internet) over 3,000 hours (60 hours/week with 2 weeks vacay); one month I billed 330 hours (basically 12 hours/day and 7days/week for the month). Not pretty, but it certainly pays well.
I could go on forever, but that's probably enough. Note that I tend to be a little more outspoken about this stuff than some people -- I've talked to lawyers who love what they do; but they're crazy. I'm in it because of the pay. Sell-outs ftw, no?
Originally Posted by blaukal
Comparative literature -- what you major in really doesn't matter. Unless you're an engineering or hard science major -- they are always in high demand for IP work, and typically get paid a little more than the masses. A lot of people that know they want to be lawyers go the political science route, but it's not like those people get better grades or anything. IMO, unless you're a genius, it all ends up being about your writing and test-taking skills (and endurance).
As to the LSAT -- it's the gatekeeper to getting into a top 20 school. I hit the 99th percentile, and had a bunch of law school opportunities; and big law firms will really only hire from the top 25% of the top 20 law schools, subject to some exceptions. My experience is that it is really, really competitive, even at the top law schools, if you want to get a big firm job and make $145k to start (which is now the going rate for incoming grads). If you just want to save the world, or chase ambulances, you can go to any law school and graduate anywhere in your class.
If you're really serious about selling your soul, check out some blog-sites like abovethelaw .com, infirmation .com and monkeyscribe .com, and see how petty, egocentric and self-absorbed us big firm lawyers are. I still think I made the right choice, but it's not for everyone. For example, less than 1% of big firm lawyers make partner at the firm they started at out of law school. Turnover is huge. Minorities and women are seriously underrepresented. Your life is measured in 6 minute increments. You regularly pull all-nighters, and regularly work weekends.
If you're trying to make partner (and not just hide in the corner and get a huge salary until they kick you out), workweeks at big firms are, on average, about 50-60 hours, with spikes of 80 hours or more.
Last year was busy for me -- I ended up billing (which is the way we measure our lives) 2,500 hours, and "working" (including business development, administrative matters and sitting in the office during working hours reading the internet) over 3,000 hours (60 hours/week with 2 weeks vacay); one month I billed 330 hours (basically 12 hours/day and 7days/week for the month). Not pretty, but it certainly pays well.
I could go on forever, but that's probably enough. Note that I tend to be a little more outspoken about this stuff than some people -- I've talked to lawyers who love what they do; but they're crazy. I'm in it because of the pay. Sell-outs ftw, no?
As to the LSAT -- it's the gatekeeper to getting into a top 20 school. I hit the 99th percentile, and had a bunch of law school opportunities; and big law firms will really only hire from the top 25% of the top 20 law schools, subject to some exceptions. My experience is that it is really, really competitive, even at the top law schools, if you want to get a big firm job and make $145k to start (which is now the going rate for incoming grads). If you just want to save the world, or chase ambulances, you can go to any law school and graduate anywhere in your class.
If you're really serious about selling your soul, check out some blog-sites like abovethelaw .com, infirmation .com and monkeyscribe .com, and see how petty, egocentric and self-absorbed us big firm lawyers are. I still think I made the right choice, but it's not for everyone. For example, less than 1% of big firm lawyers make partner at the firm they started at out of law school. Turnover is huge. Minorities and women are seriously underrepresented. Your life is measured in 6 minute increments. You regularly pull all-nighters, and regularly work weekends.
If you're trying to make partner (and not just hide in the corner and get a huge salary until they kick you out), workweeks at big firms are, on average, about 50-60 hours, with spikes of 80 hours or more.
Last year was busy for me -- I ended up billing (which is the way we measure our lives) 2,500 hours, and "working" (including business development, administrative matters and sitting in the office during working hours reading the internet) over 3,000 hours (60 hours/week with 2 weeks vacay); one month I billed 330 hours (basically 12 hours/day and 7days/week for the month). Not pretty, but it certainly pays well.
I could go on forever, but that's probably enough. Note that I tend to be a little more outspoken about this stuff than some people -- I've talked to lawyers who love what they do; but they're crazy. I'm in it because of the pay. Sell-outs ftw, no?
Originally Posted by kourosH
I am also looking at law school, and have been. However im only at my first year in college. Transfer in 1 more year, then finish my under grad in 2. Hopefully. Then take LSATs and go to Law School. Thats the plan. Richard EVO ill shoot you a PM.
Oh and to all the people on this thread looking to be a lawyer or are in law school......what did you undergrad in? What kind of LSAT scores did you guys get? Thanks!
Oh and to all the people on this thread looking to be a lawyer or are in law school......what did you undergrad in? What kind of LSAT scores did you guys get? Thanks!
stop hijacking my thread!!!
jk jk.. its nice to see other members on this board going through what I possibly will be going through very soon, good luck to everyone!!
Originally Posted by blaukal
Comparative literature -- what you major in really doesn't matter. Unless you're an engineering or hard science major -- they are always in high demand for IP work, and typically get paid a little more than the masses. A lot of people that know they want to be lawyers go the political science route, but it's not like those people get better grades or anything. IMO, unless you're a genius, it all ends up being about your writing and test-taking skills (and endurance).
As to the LSAT -- it's the gatekeeper to getting into a top 20 school. I hit the 99th percentile, and had a bunch of law school opportunities; and big law firms will really only hire from the top 25% of the top 20 law schools, subject to some exceptions. My experience is that it is really, really competitive, even at the top law schools, if you want to get a big firm job and make $145k to start (which is now the going rate for incoming grads). If you just want to save the world, or chase ambulances, you can go to any law school and graduate anywhere in your class.
If you're really serious about selling your soul, check out some blog-sites like abovethelaw .com, infirmation .com and monkeyscribe .com, and see how petty, egocentric and self-absorbed us big firm lawyers are. I still think I made the right choice, but it's not for everyone. For example, less than 1% of big firm lawyers make partner at the firm they started at out of law school. Turnover is huge. Minorities and women are seriously underrepresented. Your life is measured in 6 minute increments. You regularly pull all-nighters, and regularly work weekends.
If you're trying to make partner (and not just hide in the corner and get a huge salary until they kick you out), workweeks at big firms are, on average, about 50-60 hours, with spikes of 80 hours or more.
Last year was busy for me -- I ended up billing (which is the way we measure our lives) 2,500 hours, and "working" (including business development, administrative matters and sitting in the office during working hours reading the internet) over 3,000 hours (60 hours/week with 2 weeks vacay); one month I billed 330 hours (basically 12 hours/day and 7days/week for the month). Not pretty, but it certainly pays well.
I could go on forever, but that's probably enough. Note that I tend to be a little more outspoken about this stuff than some people -- I've talked to lawyers who love what they do; but they're crazy. I'm in it because of the pay. Sell-outs ftw, no?
As to the LSAT -- it's the gatekeeper to getting into a top 20 school. I hit the 99th percentile, and had a bunch of law school opportunities; and big law firms will really only hire from the top 25% of the top 20 law schools, subject to some exceptions. My experience is that it is really, really competitive, even at the top law schools, if you want to get a big firm job and make $145k to start (which is now the going rate for incoming grads). If you just want to save the world, or chase ambulances, you can go to any law school and graduate anywhere in your class.
If you're really serious about selling your soul, check out some blog-sites like abovethelaw .com, infirmation .com and monkeyscribe .com, and see how petty, egocentric and self-absorbed us big firm lawyers are. I still think I made the right choice, but it's not for everyone. For example, less than 1% of big firm lawyers make partner at the firm they started at out of law school. Turnover is huge. Minorities and women are seriously underrepresented. Your life is measured in 6 minute increments. You regularly pull all-nighters, and regularly work weekends.
If you're trying to make partner (and not just hide in the corner and get a huge salary until they kick you out), workweeks at big firms are, on average, about 50-60 hours, with spikes of 80 hours or more.
Last year was busy for me -- I ended up billing (which is the way we measure our lives) 2,500 hours, and "working" (including business development, administrative matters and sitting in the office during working hours reading the internet) over 3,000 hours (60 hours/week with 2 weeks vacay); one month I billed 330 hours (basically 12 hours/day and 7days/week for the month). Not pretty, but it certainly pays well.
I could go on forever, but that's probably enough. Note that I tend to be a little more outspoken about this stuff than some people -- I've talked to lawyers who love what they do; but they're crazy. I'm in it because of the pay. Sell-outs ftw, no?
I will def. be PM some of you guys in this thread if you dont' mind, but not soon, currently staffed on a client site for work. but thank you again for providing any insight into my request! and congrats on all you soon to be lawyers.. how much I would give to be in your positions.
My bet is that they'll all go up to $160,000 by the end of the year. 2,500 billed is crazy; performance based bonus = $$! Also, are you in GP? 330 hr/mo must have been a closing, no?
As far as hiring, top 25% for big firms is about right. UCLA promises 50% can get into big firms which is not accurate. But, also, I know some very charming people that got in being less than 50%. Also, very uncharming people can have trouble getting in with > 25%, even for mid-sized firms that don't pay market rate, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
If you want to go to a big firm, take teh LSAT seriously. I took a bootleg course where this guy basically begged to get us a room on campus and then proceeded to completely give us impractical information, consistently miss more problems than people in the course, and give anti-motivational talks (e.g. you can't expect to do this well on the actual test), and refused to guarantee any score increase. I was also in Mexico 3 weeks before the exam. Bad idea, seriously. Take one of the big courses, do what they tell you to do, and you'll end up where you're supposed to.
[Edit: Petty, egocentric and self-absorbed is pretty accurate. For me at least. Not studying because I have a retroactive pass-fail option FTW!]
As far as hiring, top 25% for big firms is about right. UCLA promises 50% can get into big firms which is not accurate. But, also, I know some very charming people that got in being less than 50%. Also, very uncharming people can have trouble getting in with > 25%, even for mid-sized firms that don't pay market rate, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
If you want to go to a big firm, take teh LSAT seriously. I took a bootleg course where this guy basically begged to get us a room on campus and then proceeded to completely give us impractical information, consistently miss more problems than people in the course, and give anti-motivational talks (e.g. you can't expect to do this well on the actual test), and refused to guarantee any score increase. I was also in Mexico 3 weeks before the exam. Bad idea, seriously. Take one of the big courses, do what they tell you to do, and you'll end up where you're supposed to.
[Edit: Petty, egocentric and self-absorbed is pretty accurate. For me at least. Not studying because I have a retroactive pass-fail option FTW!]
Last edited by Korki Buchek; Apr 27, 2007 at 12:50 PM.
Originally Posted by kourosH
Thanks for the summary, if you dont mind me asking: Which law school did you go to, and what classes/prep did you take for LSATs. Thanks!
But then again, I have always been a good test taker, so perhaps someone ni addition to Korki can weigh in and say how a prep class did or did not help.
Originally Posted by Korki Buchek
My bet is that they'll all go up to $160,000 by the end of the year. 2,500 billed is crazy; performance based bonus = $$! Also, are you in GP? 330 hr/mo must have been a closing, no?
I heard one firm split between offices (New York = 160; LA = 145); still a ton of money, but just seems wrong.
I asked my girlfriend about the test prep because she took the big reputable course. She said it helped tons because they give you a ton of practice, force you to study, and help you look for similarities in the questions. I took a bootleg course in the basement of U Washington, and ended up on test day doing significantly (5 points about) worse than I was doing on the beach, in Mexico, before I started paying attention to the "techniques" offered by the instructor.
The whole thing is a mind game, which, from my experience, basically sets the tone for the four years that follow (admissions process to graduation).
I asked my girlfriend about the test prep because she took the big reputable course. She said it helped tons because they give you a ton of practice, force you to study, and help you look for similarities in the questions. I took a bootleg course in the basement of U Washington, and ended up on test day doing significantly (5 points about) worse than I was doing on the beach, in Mexico, before I started paying attention to the "techniques" offered by the instructor.
The whole thing is a mind game, which, from my experience, basically sets the tone for the four years that follow (admissions process to graduation).
Korki, I have to admit I was wrong, and apologize. This just in:
Originally Posted by law.com
The dominoes are falling in the latest round of associate salary increases.
O'Melveny & Myers and Morrison & Foerster announced that they'll follow Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe's lead and raise pay for California first-year associates to $160,000. Orrick made the move Thursday.
Other big California-origin firms, such as Latham & Watkins and Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher, stayed on the sidelines Friday, declining to comment on the matter.
"I think, because Orrick and O'Melveny are strong California firms, that their compatriots will fall in line," said legal recruiter Avis Caravello, before **** added its announcement. "It would be very surprising if they didn't."
When big New York firms raised associate salaries to a scale starting at $160,000, they boosted not only New York associates, but their California colleagues as well.
Smaller California firms with high profits like Quinn Emanuel Urquhart Oliver & Hedges and Keker & Van Nest followed suit, but the largest California-based firms resisted, raising in-state associates to a $145,000 scale earlier this year and matching the $160,000 rate only in major East Coast markets.
O'Melveny talent development partner Brian Brooks said his firm expected others to follow Orrick, so O'Melveny decided to move quickly. "We didn't want to be laggards on that," he said. O'Melveny's raises start May 1, as do ****'s. Orrick's kick in starting June 1.
"It's important to signal to clients that we provide access to the very best talent, and it's important for us to signal to our associates that we're willing to pay for it," Brooks said.
All of O'Melveny's and ****'s U.S. offices are now at the $160,000 New York scale. For ****, that includes offices in Denver, Walnut Creek, Calif., and Sacramento. Orrick's Thursday announcement hiked Sacramento and the Pacific Northwest to a scale starting at $145,000.
Firm leaders said the quick change of heart about the bicoastal salary split had to do with the changing market.
"Associate compensation is a market business," said Keith Wetmore, **** chairman. "We want to make sure we are at market."
The cost for Orrick, O'Melveny and ****, which have large California associate populations, will no doubt be significant. It's a cost that industry observers say might be too much for others to bear.
"I think it's easier for the global California firms, it's kind of a no-brainer really, but it puts more pressure on the midsized California firms," Caravello said. "This is just another ***** in the armor that makes the divide more and more apparent."
Other firms that adopted the split scale earlier this year held back Friday. Boston-based Bingham McCutchen, which has about a third of its nearly 1,000 lawyers in California, was among them.
"All we can say at this point is that we are monitoring the situation, but I don't expect that we will make any immediate moves," said Hank Shafran, Bingham's director of communications.
A Heller Ehrman spokesman said there was no news to report Friday. Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker and Cooley Godward Kronish said no one was available to comment on Friday. Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman declined to comment. Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton; Thelen Reid Brown Raysman & Steiner; and Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati did not return phone calls.
O'Melveny & Myers and Morrison & Foerster announced that they'll follow Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe's lead and raise pay for California first-year associates to $160,000. Orrick made the move Thursday.
Other big California-origin firms, such as Latham & Watkins and Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher, stayed on the sidelines Friday, declining to comment on the matter.
"I think, because Orrick and O'Melveny are strong California firms, that their compatriots will fall in line," said legal recruiter Avis Caravello, before **** added its announcement. "It would be very surprising if they didn't."
When big New York firms raised associate salaries to a scale starting at $160,000, they boosted not only New York associates, but their California colleagues as well.
Smaller California firms with high profits like Quinn Emanuel Urquhart Oliver & Hedges and Keker & Van Nest followed suit, but the largest California-based firms resisted, raising in-state associates to a $145,000 scale earlier this year and matching the $160,000 rate only in major East Coast markets.
O'Melveny talent development partner Brian Brooks said his firm expected others to follow Orrick, so O'Melveny decided to move quickly. "We didn't want to be laggards on that," he said. O'Melveny's raises start May 1, as do ****'s. Orrick's kick in starting June 1.
"It's important to signal to clients that we provide access to the very best talent, and it's important for us to signal to our associates that we're willing to pay for it," Brooks said.
All of O'Melveny's and ****'s U.S. offices are now at the $160,000 New York scale. For ****, that includes offices in Denver, Walnut Creek, Calif., and Sacramento. Orrick's Thursday announcement hiked Sacramento and the Pacific Northwest to a scale starting at $145,000.
Firm leaders said the quick change of heart about the bicoastal salary split had to do with the changing market.
"Associate compensation is a market business," said Keith Wetmore, **** chairman. "We want to make sure we are at market."
The cost for Orrick, O'Melveny and ****, which have large California associate populations, will no doubt be significant. It's a cost that industry observers say might be too much for others to bear.
"I think it's easier for the global California firms, it's kind of a no-brainer really, but it puts more pressure on the midsized California firms," Caravello said. "This is just another ***** in the armor that makes the divide more and more apparent."
Other firms that adopted the split scale earlier this year held back Friday. Boston-based Bingham McCutchen, which has about a third of its nearly 1,000 lawyers in California, was among them.
"All we can say at this point is that we are monitoring the situation, but I don't expect that we will make any immediate moves," said Hank Shafran, Bingham's director of communications.
A Heller Ehrman spokesman said there was no news to report Friday. Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker and Cooley Godward Kronish said no one was available to comment on Friday. Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman declined to comment. Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton; Thelen Reid Brown Raysman & Steiner; and Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati did not return phone calls.
Damn, O'Melveny finally went up for West Coast offices too. I figured they couldn't keep it split up for long.
Word on the street is that it's just coming out of the bonuses ... and the recruiting lunches.
Word on the street is that it's just coming out of the bonuses ... and the recruiting lunches.
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