OK....... I'm SORRY. I was wrong.
04-18-2004, 09:52 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK....... I'm SORRY. I was wrong.
Enough is enough, Since my reputation in the community is now shot to h*ll because of this event. I 'll say here and now I'm sorry. Let there be one club. I'm withdrawing any notion of starting anything. Good luck to all of you.
I'll be seeking my own path, for now and in the future.
If I see any of you at another event, say hello so I know there's no hard feelings.
Now, I'll have plenty of time to work on my cars.............again.
I'll be seeking my own path, for now and in the future.
If I see any of you at another event, say hello so I know there's no hard feelings.
Now, I'll have plenty of time to work on my cars.............again.
04-18-2004, 11:19 PM
#2
Re: OK....... I'm SORRY. I was wrong.
Although I don't need an apology since none is due, I do appreciate it regardless. I can't speak for Eric and Lysa or anyone else who may have felt like they were labeled a dissenter or otherwise felt unappreciated. You might need to PM them to tell them just how you feel. And, in my opinion, I think a "sorry, I was wrong" and "my reputation is ruined" isn't adequate. Something more along the lines of "sorry, I was wrong because..." would work better because it would show them that you know what you did that was wrong and that is why you feel badly and are offering an apology.
I still think you have terrific organizational skills. Getting together sponsors who came with very nice gifts, getting us fed (thanks Performance Nissan) and bringing us together at meets was a difficult job and I think it would be a waste of that talent if you go off in your own direction. Speaking for myself, I hope we see that again. How that's going to happen, I think is going to be up to you.
As for the club, I'll tell you, your response on the other thread really put us in turmoil in that you were forcing us to make choices about what we want. Getting things out in the open was a good thing. I'm not sure where we are going with a club, if we want an organized club. I guess where we are at now is what I've read on the BehinderZ thread and things will remain informal. I really think everyone needs to discuss what they would like either on that thread, on a new thread or in person.
I also think that the opinions of of AudioPat and Jeffa regarding the pros and cons of an organized club would be helpful since they've had long histories of running clubs. And, the opinions of all members, old or new also need to be expressed and looked at carefully. Especially those members who haved organized things over the past year and a half. Ultimately, there needs to be a majority concensus as to what we are doing. Let's see what happens.
No hard feelings Ron.
Dan
I still think you have terrific organizational skills. Getting together sponsors who came with very nice gifts, getting us fed (thanks Performance Nissan) and bringing us together at meets was a difficult job and I think it would be a waste of that talent if you go off in your own direction. Speaking for myself, I hope we see that again. How that's going to happen, I think is going to be up to you.
As for the club, I'll tell you, your response on the other thread really put us in turmoil in that you were forcing us to make choices about what we want. Getting things out in the open was a good thing. I'm not sure where we are going with a club, if we want an organized club. I guess where we are at now is what I've read on the BehinderZ thread and things will remain informal. I really think everyone needs to discuss what they would like either on that thread, on a new thread or in person.
I also think that the opinions of of AudioPat and Jeffa regarding the pros and cons of an organized club would be helpful since they've had long histories of running clubs. And, the opinions of all members, old or new also need to be expressed and looked at carefully. Especially those members who haved organized things over the past year and a half. Ultimately, there needs to be a majority concensus as to what we are doing. Let's see what happens.
No hard feelings Ron.
Dan
04-21-2004, 09:39 PM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Orange County
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Per my conversation with Eric during lunch today, I could have been in Eric’s or Lysa’s position since I was one of the members that he was referring to when he mentioned about wanting for a vote on the club’s name. I admitted that I would have been offended as well. However, I was fortunate enough to watch in the sideline as the altercation escalated to which I had the luxury to think and look beyond what just transpired in the past few days.
I was able to see the inner motives of both sides, although I can only surmise based on what’s posted in the forum. I don’t believe that Ron ever intended to create a dictatorial atmosphere for this club. Yes, one can refute this claim based on his reluctance to yield to the simple request of having an election but one can not prematurely conclude that this is all of him. As a result, some members who were directly and indirectly involved reacted in an impulsive ill-advised manner driven by strong emotion. Don’t get me wrong I understand. This is why I opted to keep my silence. On the other side of the coin, did anyone think what prompted Ron to say the things that he said? Likewise, he may have just reacted to some stimuli triggered by who knows what or by who.
Now that the smokes cleared, let me remind everyone what Ron has done and can do for this 350z community. It is a shame to see a great and yet imperfect leader fall to the abyss overnight with ONE single inadvertent mistake.
This is no way taking anything from Eric, Lysa and to all those that were offended. In fact, I commend them for taking the initiative to voice out our concerns and putting up with the eventual heat.
But hey, I’m hoping that there is no irreparable damage. So if there is no harm no foul then why should Ron go on his own path? I’m not the one who Ron owes apology to, but by reflecting on what he has contributed far outweighs what he has done wrong. Ok, I hope I’m making sense here; all I’m saying is that we’ve learned from this experience and now let us move on without losing any member. We all share a common passion for our cars therefore it is highly unlikely that anyone would put up an effort to join this club with negative intentions. My tw… enty cents.
I was able to see the inner motives of both sides, although I can only surmise based on what’s posted in the forum. I don’t believe that Ron ever intended to create a dictatorial atmosphere for this club. Yes, one can refute this claim based on his reluctance to yield to the simple request of having an election but one can not prematurely conclude that this is all of him. As a result, some members who were directly and indirectly involved reacted in an impulsive ill-advised manner driven by strong emotion. Don’t get me wrong I understand. This is why I opted to keep my silence. On the other side of the coin, did anyone think what prompted Ron to say the things that he said? Likewise, he may have just reacted to some stimuli triggered by who knows what or by who.
Now that the smokes cleared, let me remind everyone what Ron has done and can do for this 350z community. It is a shame to see a great and yet imperfect leader fall to the abyss overnight with ONE single inadvertent mistake.
This is no way taking anything from Eric, Lysa and to all those that were offended. In fact, I commend them for taking the initiative to voice out our concerns and putting up with the eventual heat.
But hey, I’m hoping that there is no irreparable damage. So if there is no harm no foul then why should Ron go on his own path? I’m not the one who Ron owes apology to, but by reflecting on what he has contributed far outweighs what he has done wrong. Ok, I hope I’m making sense here; all I’m saying is that we’ve learned from this experience and now let us move on without losing any member. We all share a common passion for our cars therefore it is highly unlikely that anyone would put up an effort to join this club with negative intentions. My tw… enty cents.
04-21-2004, 10:29 PM
#4
Suck it!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In the "TOE"
Posts: 7,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think a lot of it is personality conflict. When personalities don't mesh, this is what can happen. There is too much to start re-hashing it all yet again. I think at different events people were rubbed the wrong way, and it just built up from there. People started forming their own opinions by what they heard and saw, and finally spoke their minds. They had had their fill.
I for one was part of that group. I won't take anything away from anyone and what they did thus far, but things HAD and HAVE been said, and many were offended. Ron going his own way does not prevent anyone from saying hello, or being part of something he will organize if that is what they choose to do. I think Ron has his own agenda for himself, and others have their own agendas too. Those two different agendas, don't work together to create a healthy cohesive environment.
Many ideas were quashed and vetoed, most ideas never taken into consideration, things had been said to certain "club" members which were not appreciated, behaviour which was also not appreciated, comments being made about how great an event was, "but the next time we should do this or that", does not bode well for leaving people with a good taste in their mouth.
There is a control problem and issues at hand, and THAT with the personality conflicts will always be there. That cannot be changed. People are who they are, and you cannot force them to like each other or get along. If you rub me the wrong way a few more times than a couple, I will eventually let you know how I feel, and then make the choice to either put up with it, or move on from you. This is what transpired.
I don't think anyone will be rude to each other in the eventuality of running into each other somewhere at a meet. But re-grouping as it once used to be does not seem like a remote possibilty in the distant future. If so, then many will drop off and the large group it once was, will become smaller. Splinter groups will form, and nothing will be as it was. Mind you, it isn't already as it was, but this was a good thing, not a bad thing. And better that it came now and not much later. By then, people would have been ready to explode and it might have become quite ugly. Many have already spoken their minds....changing that at this point in time is futile at best!
Dan and Lysa both have good ideas. Maybe not having a prez, or council, or anyone to run the show, but all of us to make decisions on what "WE" want. What we want to do, and how it will run.
Meetings and voting I would say to a large degree are essential, if there are specifics that everyone involved should be party to. If not, then they don't need to be there. I see no need for me to be at a meeting that will be for show cars, as I do not have a show car...(yet!). If I would like to help out in some way then I would attend, but otherwise I probably would not. Other meetings I might be more inclined to attend, as they might be more intuned with what I am looking for in this "club" atmosphere.....that type of environment.
I don't think this should continue or be brought up again. The decision rests that Ron has a group under him, and not all will follow suit. They will do what they want to do, and figure things out along the way.
How many times can you beat a dead horse??????????
...those are my .75 Canadian cents....worth about a quarter here....
Damn Canadian money............ 
I for one was part of that group. I won't take anything away from anyone and what they did thus far, but things HAD and HAVE been said, and many were offended. Ron going his own way does not prevent anyone from saying hello, or being part of something he will organize if that is what they choose to do. I think Ron has his own agenda for himself, and others have their own agendas too. Those two different agendas, don't work together to create a healthy cohesive environment.
Many ideas were quashed and vetoed, most ideas never taken into consideration, things had been said to certain "club" members which were not appreciated, behaviour which was also not appreciated, comments being made about how great an event was, "but the next time we should do this or that", does not bode well for leaving people with a good taste in their mouth.
There is a control problem and issues at hand, and THAT with the personality conflicts will always be there. That cannot be changed. People are who they are, and you cannot force them to like each other or get along. If you rub me the wrong way a few more times than a couple, I will eventually let you know how I feel, and then make the choice to either put up with it, or move on from you. This is what transpired.
I don't think anyone will be rude to each other in the eventuality of running into each other somewhere at a meet. But re-grouping as it once used to be does not seem like a remote possibilty in the distant future. If so, then many will drop off and the large group it once was, will become smaller. Splinter groups will form, and nothing will be as it was. Mind you, it isn't already as it was, but this was a good thing, not a bad thing. And better that it came now and not much later. By then, people would have been ready to explode and it might have become quite ugly. Many have already spoken their minds....changing that at this point in time is futile at best!
Dan and Lysa both have good ideas. Maybe not having a prez, or council, or anyone to run the show, but all of us to make decisions on what "WE" want. What we want to do, and how it will run.
Meetings and voting I would say to a large degree are essential, if there are specifics that everyone involved should be party to. If not, then they don't need to be there. I see no need for me to be at a meeting that will be for show cars, as I do not have a show car...(yet!). If I would like to help out in some way then I would attend, but otherwise I probably would not. Other meetings I might be more inclined to attend, as they might be more intuned with what I am looking for in this "club" atmosphere.....that type of environment.
I don't think this should continue or be brought up again. The decision rests that Ron has a group under him, and not all will follow suit. They will do what they want to do, and figure things out along the way.
How many times can you beat a dead horse??????????
...those are my .75 Canadian cents....worth about a quarter here....
Damn Canadian money............
04-22-2004, 08:09 AM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Pedro, Ca
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey n10zt,
Where in any of the posts did we say that Ron was being kicked out? HE opted out of the club on his own behalf because he didnt like what we were saying. In any leadership position, if you can't listen to those below you, then you will have utter chaos. It also means youre not a very good leader. He dismissed everyone's suggestions w/ "if you want to move forward, follow me ...if not, STAY BEHIND". After everyone commented on that particular post, he went on w/ "its a private members only club". Only after less than 5 people said they wanted in, did he say "The Mrs and I are out...we will be doing our own thing". No where in any of the posts did we say "Ron get out! You're no longer a part of this club." He CHOSE to leave the club because he disagreed with a lot of the members. (Including me.)
My comment....Agree to disagree if it really matters to you. (Thats the philosophy I have w/ my mom, my boyfriend, and even some friends...those who love you and care about you don't always have to agree with everything that you do..the idea is to love you or care about you UNCONDITIONALLY.) With Ron, I think that he blew it way out of porportion, but thats just my opinion.
Once this issue was already over with, we STILL have to see the sarcastic remarks from him...."the now defunk so cal 350z club"... "sorry the stickers are no longer available..it wasnt' voted on".... In another the other thread, after some people posted that the issue was done and over w/ and should be closed, his response.." i closed this 19 posts ago..remember, sorry no more stickers!". His behavior was not one of remorse.To me, it seems as thought he is not really sorry for his actions or his words..he is sorry that no one wanted to follow him....and he is sorry for his reputation being shot to hell..but honestly, that was his own doing....
Dan made the comment to him that he should PM us....I, for one, never received anything from him. Honestly, I have no hard feelings towards him. If I see him at any event, I will say hello and be cordial. And I assume he would do the same...Like I have said before....agree to disagree....
Lysa
Where in any of the posts did we say that Ron was being kicked out? HE opted out of the club on his own behalf because he didnt like what we were saying. In any leadership position, if you can't listen to those below you, then you will have utter chaos. It also means youre not a very good leader. He dismissed everyone's suggestions w/ "if you want to move forward, follow me ...if not, STAY BEHIND". After everyone commented on that particular post, he went on w/ "its a private members only club". Only after less than 5 people said they wanted in, did he say "The Mrs and I are out...we will be doing our own thing". No where in any of the posts did we say "Ron get out! You're no longer a part of this club." He CHOSE to leave the club because he disagreed with a lot of the members. (Including me.)
My comment....Agree to disagree if it really matters to you. (Thats the philosophy I have w/ my mom, my boyfriend, and even some friends...those who love you and care about you don't always have to agree with everything that you do..the idea is to love you or care about you UNCONDITIONALLY.) With Ron, I think that he blew it way out of porportion, but thats just my opinion.
Once this issue was already over with, we STILL have to see the sarcastic remarks from him...."the now defunk so cal 350z club"... "sorry the stickers are no longer available..it wasnt' voted on".... In another the other thread, after some people posted that the issue was done and over w/ and should be closed, his response.." i closed this 19 posts ago..remember, sorry no more stickers!". His behavior was not one of remorse.To me, it seems as thought he is not really sorry for his actions or his words..he is sorry that no one wanted to follow him....and he is sorry for his reputation being shot to hell..but honestly, that was his own doing....
Dan made the comment to him that he should PM us....I, for one, never received anything from him. Honestly, I have no hard feelings towards him. If I see him at any event, I will say hello and be cordial. And I assume he would do the same...Like I have said before....agree to disagree....
Lysa
04-22-2004, 08:43 AM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Costa Mesa, CA
Posts: 1,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lysa, I agree. The apology is half-assed. And the reason he's apologizing is probably because his rep is ruined and he has nobody to follow him... more so than he is actually sorry for becoming such a ****.
This all reminds me so much of the "Dan Ziegler Scam" incident... where only AFTER his reputation was tained, he came back and gave a HALF-ASSED apology. Where is he now? Gone.
Ron... I can go on and on about you. But I will just say two things.
1. If you are so worried about your reputation... just know that you only did this to yourself. Try going back to all the posts you made. I think even you will blush with embarrassment.
2. I still cannot believe that a man of your age can be so little. Rather than extrapolate on that further (like I feel compelled to do), I'll just leave it at this. I have no respect for you.
This all reminds me so much of the "Dan Ziegler Scam" incident... where only AFTER his reputation was tained, he came back and gave a HALF-ASSED apology. Where is he now? Gone.
Ron... I can go on and on about you. But I will just say two things.
1. If you are so worried about your reputation... just know that you only did this to yourself. Try going back to all the posts you made. I think even you will blush with embarrassment.
2. I still cannot believe that a man of your age can be so little. Rather than extrapolate on that further (like I feel compelled to do), I'll just leave it at this. I have no respect for you.
Trending Topics
04-22-2004, 08:01 PM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Orange County
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So this whole incident is just a culmination of previous clashes. I figured that there might be more to it than what had been posted and Jen just proved me right.
Ron’s apology in this thread gave me grounds to believe that a re-hashing effort is within reach. And so I spoke my mind having a limping horse in sight. But the horse may have fallen off the cliff after reading the preceding responses. I had the intention to put up a last ditch effort to reconcile these differences in agenda in hopes of bringing the short-lived good ‘ol days. Unfortunately, my actions were viewed as beating a dead horse. There will always be opposing agendas, opinions, ideas, personalities and you name it within an organization. Diplomacy and willingness to compromise can bridge this gap. I took a shot of laying out the tracks for Ron to redeem himself by showing signs of goodwill but have gotten no response.
I was counting on the fact that Ron will take Dan’s diplomatic advice but to no avail. Combine with Lysa’s statement that “his behavior was not one of remorse”, which is justified, leaves me nothing to contend with.
I did not accuse anyone of kicking out Ron. The rhetorical question “…why should Ron go on his own path?” meant to communicate that he should stay provided that hard feelings have been addressed. Evidently this is nowhere near the case.
Ron’s apology in this thread gave me grounds to believe that a re-hashing effort is within reach. And so I spoke my mind having a limping horse in sight. But the horse may have fallen off the cliff after reading the preceding responses. I had the intention to put up a last ditch effort to reconcile these differences in agenda in hopes of bringing the short-lived good ‘ol days. Unfortunately, my actions were viewed as beating a dead horse. There will always be opposing agendas, opinions, ideas, personalities and you name it within an organization. Diplomacy and willingness to compromise can bridge this gap. I took a shot of laying out the tracks for Ron to redeem himself by showing signs of goodwill but have gotten no response.
I was counting on the fact that Ron will take Dan’s diplomatic advice but to no avail. Combine with Lysa’s statement that “his behavior was not one of remorse”, which is justified, leaves me nothing to contend with.
I did not accuse anyone of kicking out Ron. The rhetorical question “…why should Ron go on his own path?” meant to communicate that he should stay provided that hard feelings have been addressed. Evidently this is nowhere near the case.
04-22-2004, 10:15 PM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why can't we let sleeping dogs lie. I've sat by and let everyone throw their stones in the hopes that this would have died down long ago. But no.... I've printed all the posts, everything regarding this subject with everyones comments . Why does everyone want to back me into a corner. I'll be turning the matter over to some lawyer friends of mine to sort out.. Can anyone spell lible. I'm sure Dan can explain.
I'm the injuried party and I'm sure everyone knows that, so do'nt force me to seek damages from those that continue on this reckless course .
Consider this to be your final notice.
I'm the injuried party and I'm sure everyone knows that, so do'nt force me to seek damages from those that continue on this reckless course .
Consider this to be your final notice.
Last edited by Mr Twisted; 04-22-2004 at 10:54 PM.
04-23-2004, 07:13 AM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Costa Mesa, CA
Posts: 1,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ron. Get a life.
First, you try to act like a dictator, calling me and Lysa "dissenters" for offering our ideas. Did you say libel or liable? I know the difference... not sure if you do.
Second, people saw right through your BS and now alot of people have lost respect for you. And instead of realizing what you've done (to yourself) and apologizing sincerely, you make a thread saying "OK, I'm sorry...since my reputation is shot to hell". That's a great reason to apologize.
Now, you try to threaten us with this BS? This is pathetic. Your lawyer friends will tell you that this is pathetic too. You've got nothing.
Had you not said ANYTHING after the incident, I would have gone quietly. But everytime you show your immaturity, I will not shy away from posting my thoughts. Now, if you would like to hear no more about this issue, then stop bringing it up, unless you are ready to sincerely apologize. You just keep digging yourself a bigger hole.
What does everyone else think of this behavior? Are you going to just sit and take this BS?!?!!?
First, you try to act like a dictator, calling me and Lysa "dissenters" for offering our ideas. Did you say libel or liable? I know the difference... not sure if you do.
Second, people saw right through your BS and now alot of people have lost respect for you. And instead of realizing what you've done (to yourself) and apologizing sincerely, you make a thread saying "OK, I'm sorry...since my reputation is shot to hell". That's a great reason to apologize.
Now, you try to threaten us with this BS? This is pathetic. Your lawyer friends will tell you that this is pathetic too. You've got nothing.
Had you not said ANYTHING after the incident, I would have gone quietly. But everytime you show your immaturity, I will not shy away from posting my thoughts. Now, if you would like to hear no more about this issue, then stop bringing it up, unless you are ready to sincerely apologize. You just keep digging yourself a bigger hole.
What does everyone else think of this behavior? Are you going to just sit and take this BS?!?!!?
Last edited by BullishZ; 04-23-2004 at 07:30 AM.
04-23-2004, 07:51 AM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Pedro, Ca
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I couldnt agree more..Ron if you like, I will GLADLY round up all of the sarcastic comments YOU have made..You made YOURSELF look bad...You didnt need OUR help...
"If you want to move forward, follow me...if not STAY BEHIND"
(THAT was the dictator attitude that SOME of us DID NOT LIKE.)
"this is your final notice"
(Before what? You SUE US? For what? Defamation of character...? Hmm...If that is the case, then Eric and I can do the same thing.)
"Sizong, I always take care of my friends"
(Do you mean you always take care of those who don't OPENLY disagree with you?)
"Sorry no more stickers..the idea wasnt voted on"
Those are just SOME of the comments that I can think of off the top of my head...
Honestly, you have done this to yourself...Two words come to mind..
FREE SPEECH.
Lysa
Last edited by callmeaflirt; 04-23-2004 at 07:55 AM.
04-23-2004, 08:02 AM
#16
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Athoritay !!!
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't get it
What are you all talking about??? I think you are all much nicer people when you are driving your car or barbequeing ribs than when you get in front of your computers. Lighten up. This is supposed to be fun. If it causes turmoil, why do it at all? 
04-23-2004, 08:08 AM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Pedro, Ca
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hunter,
I think you might have missed the last couple posts....If you had read them, you would have a better understanding of what is going on.
And bbq'ing ribs IS more fun that sitting in front of a computer!
Lysa
I think you might have missed the last couple posts....If you had read them, you would have a better understanding of what is going on.
And bbq'ing ribs IS more fun that sitting in front of a computer!
Lysa
04-23-2004, 08:15 AM
#19
Originally posted by Mr Twisted
I'll be turning the matter over to some lawyer friends of mine to sort out.. Can anyone spell lible. I'm sure Dan can explain.
I'm the injuried party and I'm sure everyone knows that, so do'nt force me to seek damages from those that continue on this reckless course .
Consider this to be your final notice.
I'll be turning the matter over to some lawyer friends of mine to sort out.. Can anyone spell lible. I'm sure Dan can explain.
I'm the injuried party and I'm sure everyone knows that, so do'nt force me to seek damages from those that continue on this reckless course .
Consider this to be your final notice.
Issue: Was Ron subject to defamatory tort?
Rule: Defamation requires, among other things, a defamatory statement, special damages (pecuniary loss). Truth is a defense, consent is an absolute privilege and reports of public proceedings is a qualified privilege.
Analysis: If Ron is able to show ridicule, loss of esteem, contempt or hatred that is published to at least one third party, he must still show special damages. Let's assume that Ron was subject to ridicule or loss of esteem, there remains no pecuniary loss. Therefore there is insufficient damages for a claim. Additionally, defendants would assert truth to defend against the action (that any statement, even if defamatory, was in fact true), that Ron impliedly consented by bringing comments on a public forum through his posts and by taking on a position of leadership that is expected to be subject to scrutiny, praise or ridicule, and that an internet forum is a public proceeding and would at least provide a qualified privilege.
Conclusion: It is very unlikely that Ron will prevail in a claim of defamation.
Ron, threatening club members with suit is not exactly putting you in a good light nor eliciting sympathy. You're bringing comments down upon yourself. My recommendation, stop posting about this subject or, request thread locks.
I have to say I almost fell out of my chair when Hunter Z posted. "If it causes turmoil, why do it at all?" I don't know how to say this without coming across as condescending but, I have to say, it's nice to see you've been following your own advice, you've come a long way on forum etiquete. I mean that in the best way.
To everyone else, please cut the man some slack. Remember the rule: "if you don't have something nice to say about someone, don't say anything at all." A lot of us could stand to apply the rule.
Let the thread die.
None of the above should be construed upon as legal opinion or advice.
Last edited by hfm; 04-23-2004 at 08:19 AM.