Ok, so I realize I have the slowest UTEC install EVER... O2 installed on Tuesday, harness soldered up w/ relay on Wednesday...Friday and I may actually get the UTEC and Tuner installed.... maybe.. work sucks, ya know? No time anymore...but besides the point...




So, now that I've read the manual a gazillion times and this entire forum a gazillion times, and wrxhackers a zillion times, etc... I decided I'd download the TXS base maps and look at them, since now I have an fair idea of what's going on in those maps.

I see the base timing map for NA has -100deg of timing retard across all load sites from about 500-2500 rpm, the last few rpm up to redline, and then the entire 0-10% is -100deg. The remainder of the table is set to 19-27deg of advance, which seems more normal.

That doesn't seem like a good thing. Seems like in these -100 sites I'd be firing 75 deg later than even the ECU wanted to fire the ignition (on average, based on other ECU-timing logs I've seen..not my own yet).

Why is this? I'm afraid to run this map until I know why this is set this way. As the manual says, "know what you are doing and why you are doing it", right?

Is -100 the same thing as "ECU"? I do not see this in the docs... If so, then when manually editing maps should I type -100 or "e" as the documentation suggests?

The base fuel map is pretty odd too, but not so wierd.


So, given all that, I'd appreciate if anyone could shed light on why the base maps are designed this way, and what -100 of timing is going to do to my engine... But I have another question that is more to do with why we need base maps at all.

I mean, why not set the UTEC to Map 0 (bypass) and then go log. Then add in load site/rpm settings based on how you want to change the ECU's natural behavior?

Similarly, why not run a base map with all fuel sites set to "0" (ie. no fuel offset) and all timing sites set to "ECU" (ie. ECU still controls timing) and then go log. Dial-in the AFR using ECU to control the timing map. Then once that is done go in and begin tuning the timing, then by this point you'd be in the normal rigamarol of tuning process.

This second method may be the exact same thing as setting to Map 0 and going logging, but it seems more controlled to use the maps to continue the hand-off to the ECU.

So then, is this method viable? Is there a reason we must use a base map first? As far as I can tell the base map is essentially a generic guess (aside from the -100 retard, it is relatively conservative). But what is the purpose of it?

Why not begin tuning with the AFR using the ECU in full control, then adjust the UTEC off of that??

Thanks!

 

the -100 that you see in the maps is "ECU" when you program it. For some reason, "-100" is what shows up on the maps when you save them.

Your idea is similar to what I have been doing. I started off very slowly. I made alot of datalogs while on the "0" map. I wanted to see what the stock ecu was doing.

 

BOOM! Hammer on nail head.. You can either enter -100 or ECU and the same is going to happen.. Its basically letting the ECU take over for that load site..

I would start off like Quad stated.. '0' and get some logs.. See what your car is doing and then build a base map(1) off the logs you get from being on '0'..

I know work and family take time away from UTEC + Tuner.. What I did is setup some lighting and do it late at night.. Talk to the wife and tell her your busy, put the kiddos to bed and get to work.. If Texas is anything like Tucson, its hot and humid.. Get some towels and drape them in the car to not get anything to sweaty.. I know for my G, leather + sweat doesnt mix..

Get on your knees with maybe another towel on the ground and install like the best of 'em..

I could do it blind now as it would take me less than 2 minutes to get my dash apart and utec unhooked from the harness to get to it.. The tricky part is getting the o2 sensor from the engine compartment---> inside of the dash.. Just take your time and make sure you dont poke to much through the grommet cutting any wires..

GL and call me if needed..

 

That's the worst part... I've already go all the wiring run through the firewall.. other than connecting the tuner's relay to 12v, the relay to switched 12v, and then attached (very nicely done) grounding harness I made for the whole getup... there's nothing else to do but bolt it in.

The wife is about to start playing her computer games. When that happens it is ON!

I'm glad to hear you guys are building off of ecu-map baselines rather than the guesstimate baseline. I think that is the safer and more effective approach. Might take longer, but it's not like logging runs are boring.

Thx guys

 

what wires did you have to run through the firewall?

I only had to run the MAP sensor and the WB O2 cable.

 

Correct.. I have o2 sensor. Yet to have the map sensor..

 

No map here either (NA, and running MAF pulldown for now). But besides the O2 I ran a fused (15a) 12v to the battery to a relay, which is switched on the ignition. Safest setup and assures the Tuner and O2 get the energy they need without worry of burning the car down or overloading fuses. :-)

Partway through the install now. Just started. Waiting for some friends to come over cuz they wanna check out the install. No logging tonight. But I just want to make sure everything goes in with no CEL, runs smooth on map 0, and the Tuner reads the WB at the correct temp range. If all that checks off then I'll be happy.

Wish me luck!

 

can you take some pics of your power setup...and give exact details on parts and installation please. this part has got me worried...but after that seems easy. if you could...pm me with details...much appreciated

 

A little late for pics cuz it's all buttoned up, and wrapped in cable covers..

It's easy though. First, do a little research on Bosch relays if you are not familiar with them. In a nutshell, all a relay is is a way to create a new switched power source in a safe and simple manner.

A typical Bosch relay is a little black cube, possibly with a mounting tab. This cube has five metal contacts coming off of it. Each contact goes to a different lead (I'll explain them in a second). Sometimes you can find relays which include a wired plug. This plug would plug into the contacts and has wires coming out of it, one for each lead. This makes it easier to solder connections (because you would solder to the wires instead of worrying about connecting to the relay's contact tabs directly).

So every relay has 5 contacts, and they are numbered:
30 = 12v in (eg. direct from the battery, on a fused lead...MUST BE FUSED!)
87a = Unswitched 12v output
87 = Switched 12v output
85 = Power from switched source (anything, eg. radio or accessory fuse)
86 = Relay Ground

Works like this:

A relay is nothing more than an electromagentically controlled switch. The "switch" is determined by whether or not power is provided to contact #85. Power can be "moved" or "switched" to come out of contact #87a or #87.

Power from the battery positive goes in #30. When the "switch" contact #85 is not receiving power, then the electromagnet inside the relay maintains contact between #30 and #87a. This means that when the "switch" is off, or not receiving power, then all current from the battery is directed to #87a.

Now, if you then power the "switch" contact #85, then the electromagnet becomes charged and pushes a little metal bar away from #87a and moves to connect with contact #87. Now when the "switch" is on power is going from #30 to #87.

So you can see that if you run your relay to battery power and connect your accessory to contact #87, and nothing on #87a, then your accessory will be off when the "switch" is off, and the accessory will be powered with the "switch" is on. Wire the "switch" contact #85 to any switched ignition source in the car to power the accessory when you turn the key in the car, and off when turn the key off.

Why is this safer? Mainly because when you tap off of an existing fuse in the car's fuse block, you can very easily overload the circuit that the fuse is safeguarding. Normally you can get away with it because these circuits are typically overbuilt and underated, so most circuits do not pull anywhere near the amperage that the fuse is capable of managing. But some do. And sometimes crazy things can happen and even the accessory circuit can become overloaded.

I decided it would not be safe to tap the Tuner off of an accessory fuse because it is also being used to power the O2 heater. So I use a relay. A relay allows you to provide your accessory with all the (fused) power it can need. That 12v power source is FUSED near the battery, so this means the Tuner is basically on it's own fused circuit, safe and sound and separate from the car's remaining circuits as far as needing power.

But you still want this to be switched power, and now you see why the relay is handy for creating a switched power source. The best part though is that the electromagnetic "switch" inside the relay only draws about 0.001 amps, so it is an insignificant load to whatever switched power source you tap off of.

Here's how you do it with the Tuner:

Take a wire with an inline fuse and attach it to the positive terminal on the battery. Use a fuse or you risk burning your car down if there is a short (that is extreme, but take it seriously nonetheless..USE A FUSE!). I used a 15a inline fuse from Auto Zone to create this 12v lead. Crimp a hoop onto one end of the wire, then about 1 ft away from the hoop connect your inline fuse. Then after the inline fuse you will run the rest of the wire through the firewall.

This wire we will call 12v, and you connect it to the relay on #30.

Then you connect the relay to the ground using #86. You can use any ground you want. I created a grounding strap for the UTEC, the Tuner, and the relay. I grounded the entire strap to the bolt which the TXS Utec instructions point you to.

Now, let's stop for a second. If you were to turn on power to the car right now then with the relay grounded power will flow from the battery to contact #30, and then out of ....................



If you said 87a, you are correct! With no power going to the "switch" #85, then power from 30 will always go to #87a.

So, you have #30 connected to 12v, and #86 connected to ground. You now know you want to connect #85 to a switched ignition source. Choose anything you like. The wire you use to connect to a switched source does not necessarily need to be fused because the amp load is so small even a 24 ga wire could handle it. But it doesn't hurt anything if you are the cautious type.

Now, you have your 12v, ground, and switch going to the relay. All you need to do now is run #87 to the Tuner's 12v input lead (blue on mine, coming from the DB15).

Then all you need to do is ground the Tuner (white wire on mine).

When you are done it looks like this:

Key off-
Batt 12v -> #30
Ground -> #86
Switch -> #85
No connection -> #87a (12v OUTPUT WHEN KEY IS OFF)
Tuner -> #87

Key on-

Batt 12v -> #30
Ground -> #86
Switch -> #85
No connection -> #87a
Tuner -> #87 (12v OUTPUT WHEN KEY IS ON)


Hope that helps. If you get stuck drop me a PM and I'll walk you through it.

PS: For those in the "know", I realize 85 and 86 are interchangeable. But I wanted to keep it simple.

PPS: For everyone else, relays are neat way to create and control your own circuits. For example, by tying relays together you can make some really nice logic circuits. For example, in my motorcycle I have a relays throughout because I moved to custom mini switches. This switches couldn't handle the direct load as the OEM switches did, so I used fused relays. Anyway, there is a relay for my engine start button. But when I press this button the headlight circuit needs to be disabled (in case the light is on, you don't want to strain the starter). So you wire one relay to another relay to create a logic circuit. If power to starter = yes, then power to headlight = no. Tons of cools things to be done with relays. And then there are solid-state relays, which are much more expensive but they are processor-controlled and have no moving parts.

Cheers,
-Smoky

 

J/K bro..

 

thanks for that post smokey...sounds complicated but practical

where can you get these bosch relays...or is this already there?

sorry for my ignorance on this...not an electrical person

 

it is a standard SPDT relay (Single Pole / Double Throw). You can get them at radio shack, but most car audio shops have the Bosch ones.

 

that bosch relay worked like a champ....great suggestion

thanks for the explanation and instructions smokey

i feel much better now that the utec is on its own circuit...took a while to run that wire through the firewall but i needed to run the 02 and knock sensor wires too so what the hell is one more wire. also, there is easy access to the fuse in case it blows.

i ended up getting that relay at circuit city after trying radio shack, auto parts stores, etc. in fact, i was getting a little frustrated not finding the relay until i hit the audio installation department at circuit city....and the guy just gave me one for free.

i got the one where you can connect your wires instead of having to sotter the wires to the connecters...much easier and cleaner

 

Ya, I love the plug/wire setup. That way if the relay ever goes out (unlikely if it is a Bosch) then you just unplug it and plug in a new one. Same with the fuse.

Glad it worked out!