utec tuner pro question....asap
utec tuner pro question....asap
do you need to connect a db9 cable from the utec to the db9 on the tuner pro?
then connect the other db9 cable from the tuner pro to the pc?
other than that i am ready to go, but before i remount that utec i want to be sure of having to add that cable. that is one tight fit and i don't want to do it more than necessary.
thanks,
rw...out
then connect the other db9 cable from the tuner pro to the pc?
other than that i am ready to go, but before i remount that utec i want to be sure of having to add that cable. that is one tight fit and i don't want to do it more than necessary.
thanks,
rw...out
With Tuner it goes like this
Serial cable from UTEC to Tuner
Phone wire from Tuner to Serial adapter to Laptop
With Out tuner
Serial cable from UTEC to laptop
Or
Usb Cable from UTEC to laptop
Later
Aceman
Serial cable from UTEC to Tuner
Phone wire from Tuner to Serial adapter to Laptop
With Out tuner
Serial cable from UTEC to laptop
Or
Usb Cable from UTEC to laptop
Later
Aceman
cool....got it hooked up and the car idles good.
now i need to start logging
did your tuner come with two db9 connecters?
reason i am asking...because mine has two and i am hoping that i can use one for a pc connection.
otherwise, i will have to make a cable since mine did not come with one in my kit...only two db9 to db9 cables
now i need to start logging
did your tuner come with two db9 connecters?
reason i am asking...because mine has two and i am hoping that i can use one for a pc connection.
otherwise, i will have to make a cable since mine did not come with one in my kit...only two db9 to db9 cables
never mind last post
in my directions, the front of my tuner has a serial connecter for pc...so i guess i can go db9 to db9...tuner to pc
i guess that is a feature of the tuner pro
in my directions, the front of my tuner has a serial connecter for pc...so i guess i can go db9 to db9...tuner to pc
i guess that is a feature of the tuner pro
No, the tuner acts as a bridge, so when you log, you are actually connected to the UTEC but simply using the tuner to get a/f.
This is what you do..
When your ready to log, you are in fact connected to the tuner, but you want to log within the UTEC.
When your connected you want to be in the UTEC screen so hit u and then hit 1 and you will start logging. I hit 1 then spacebar immediately to stop the log, then go to capture etc etc.. once your ready to log hit spacebar again and when finished loggin at 110 mph on the freeway, hit spacebar again..
This is what you do..
When your ready to log, you are in fact connected to the tuner, but you want to log within the UTEC.
When your connected you want to be in the UTEC screen so hit u and then hit 1 and you will start logging. I hit 1 then spacebar immediately to stop the log, then go to capture etc etc.. once your ready to log hit spacebar again and when finished loggin at 110 mph on the freeway, hit spacebar again..
ok...i think i got it now.
if your connected to the tuner via serial...then you have to hit u to connect to the utec. then you start logging.
gonna give this a try and see what happens...hopefully at 110 i can concentrate enough to drive and play on the puter
if your connected to the tuner via serial...then you have to hit u to connect to the utec. then you start logging.
gonna give this a try and see what happens...hopefully at 110 i can concentrate enough to drive and play on the puter
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Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 690
Likes: 0
From: Louisiana, USA
Haven't you read your instruction manuals? I've had tons of questions myself, and don't mind helping others at all... But it scares me a little that you don't know some of the basics from the manual, yet you are about to begin tuning your car.
Read the manual! :-) I'd hate to read a future post about Road Warrior blowing his motor.
Read the manual! :-) I'd hate to read a future post about Road Warrior blowing his motor.
smokey, i have read the manual...and yes its in there...but i am making double sure before i do anything. i read the manual and i don't get the tuning part so i won't try it until i know what i am doing...believe me, i don't want a blown motor either.
some people have the tuner, and some the tuner pro so i was unsure of the cable hook ups. once i went back to the manual i saw that i could go db9 from the tuner pro.
now as far as tuning, well i read the manual and i stilll don't get it. its really not self explanitory in my opinion. but i won't do any tuning until i am absolutely sure i know what i am changing.
hey, at least i got it hooked up and running.
i thought thats what the forum was for...i am no expert and i am a little reluctant to do the tuning to be honest. i may just take it somewhere and let them tune it on a dyno. but first, i am gonna see what it takes to tune this car and go from there.
later
some people have the tuner, and some the tuner pro so i was unsure of the cable hook ups. once i went back to the manual i saw that i could go db9 from the tuner pro.
now as far as tuning, well i read the manual and i stilll don't get it. its really not self explanitory in my opinion. but i won't do any tuning until i am absolutely sure i know what i am changing.
hey, at least i got it hooked up and running.
i thought thats what the forum was for...i am no expert and i am a little reluctant to do the tuning to be honest. i may just take it somewhere and let them tune it on a dyno. but first, i am gonna see what it takes to tune this car and go from there.
later
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 690
Likes: 0
From: Louisiana, USA
Absolutely don't mean to come across as critical or down on you for hitting the forum for info. That is what it's for. I'm just stressing the manual a lot. Read it many times. I read it about 6 times before it all really sank in. And I haven't started tuning yet, but I know when I change something what it will mean.
All the info is in there. But here's a few tips to make the next re-read more valuable. (and I realize some of these you may already know, but I offer them up anyway)
(True gurus.. please correct any of this if I'm in error)
- If you're NA, you disable the "open-fuelling option" in the parameters. Instead you will use "MAF pulldown". This means (in my simplistic terms, for lack of better understanding) that you will use the UTEC to "fool" the ECU in how it interprets the voltage coming from the MAF sensor. The MAF sensor reads the incoming air volume. Then it tells the ECU how much air is coming in so the ECU then knows how much fuel to spray from the injectors. Other factors are involved, of course, but the MAF output if all you are concerned about changing.
-After logging a run, you observe your WB O2 reading and see how far rich (below 13.0) or lean (above 13.0) you are running throughout the rpm band at 100% throttle while running in the 100% MAF load site.
-The "load column" contains load sites for each rpm row. The manual shows a table describing the voltage range for each load column. 0-10% is your "idle" MAF voltage range (0-0.5v I think..too lazy to look it up). 90-100% is your "Wide open Throttle" range (4.5-5.0v I think).
-In your maps, you tune the percentage difference of MAF voltage that you want the ECU to "see" at each rpm and load site (row / column). So, if in a column/row you set the fuel offset to "+0.5" then you will add 1/2 percent worth of voltage to fool the ECU into thinking more air is coming in. This results in more fuel added to the mixture at that rpm and at that load site.
-Your first goal is to tune your MAF offset percentage using your log data from the WB O2 column to add or subtract fuel until the WB O2 column reads as close to 13.0 all the way through your rpm band at full throttle.
-You then tune lower columns and choose a point where you let the ECU handle fuel, and a point where you begin to set offsets. Everyone has different points of transition. Some tuners are good enough to control the entire table. The main point is that wherever you transition it should be done "smoothly", and not with abrupt changes. Otherwise you may feel the transition point (possibly as a hesitation).
-During this process you leave your timing set to ECU so the ECU is still handling timing. Once you get your WB O2 log tuned in, then you move on to tuning timing. I recommend doing lots of reading about tuning timing, even back to the stuff about mechanical distributors, because it really helps to give you the basics about the physics of timing in a combustion engine. It is not nearly as simple as folks think. Tuning timing has a reputation for being a black art.
-When you tune timing, you follow the same process as when tuning fuel, except now you are tuning the number of degrees before or after "top dead center" when you want the plug to fire the mixture. What makes it different from fuel tuning is that setting the timing in the map table is not setting the offset. You are actually setting the timing itself. If you set the column/row item to "+18" then you are telling the engine to fire at 18 deg before top-dead center (BTDC). (in reality, for all I know, the UTEC may perform the operation as an offset behind the scenes, but as far as you are concerned, you tune the settings with actual timing values, and not percentage offsets).
-If you "add timing" then you are "advancing" the timing. If your current timing at 4250rpm and 90-100% load is 18deg BTDC, and you change the value to 22deg BTDC, then you have "advanced" the timing by 4 degrees.
-If you "take out timing" then you are "retarding" the timing. If your current timing at 6000 rpm and 80-90% load is 25deg BTDC, and you change the value to 20deg BTDC, then you have "retarded" the timing by 5 degrees.
-The goal when tuning timing is to find that sweet spot when you are firing not too soon before the piston reaches the top of the cylinder (TDC) and definitely not after. Our cars have advance tuned in from the factory. In an NA application you will likely want to advance the timing a few more degrees than stock.
-Our cars run lean from the factory in low rpms, and rich at high rpms. Why? Emissions. Lean is bad right? Well, not if you retard the timing. If you retard timing and make the plug fire later, when the piston is higher in the chamber, then you have less time to fully combust the entire mixture in the cylinder. But if you have less fuel, then it isn't as big of a concern. In the end, the result is simply a smaller combustion explosion, and subsequently less emissions per cylinder firing.
-Then the mixture is richened at the higher rpm range to keep the motor from blowing up at 7000 rpm. To keep things extra safe (and other reasons) the mixture may be riched a bit much beyond 13.0:1, such as 11.0:1. (air:fuel).
-The trick with timing is that there is an "effective range" of advance that you can work with. Imagine that this range is split into three sections. The first section (eg. from 18deg to 21deg) is the range where you are making the most use of the optimal AFR. At the top of this first range is where you make optimum power. The second range (eg. from 22-26) begins when advancing timing no longer creates power. Adding any more timing beyond this point will not get you more power or more efficiency. The third range (eg. from 26 and higher) begins when you start to get knock. This means that you are firing the plug too early in the combustion process. Firing too early means that instead of the combustion happening "just in time" to push back on the cylinder with the best force, it happens "too soon" and the process is nearly over by the time the piston reaches the top of the cylinder (TDC). Other variables are involved, such as an irregular flame front (the line of combustion between the fire and the mixture as it combusts), and the result is what you hear as knock or pinging.
-The basic idea with the UTEC is that you tune your WB O2 AFR reading to 13.0, and then you have the freedom to advance the timing because you are running an more optimal AFR. This is how you "release" the horsepower from each mod. Each mod should change the amount of fuel you need/don't need. Add a mod, tune the fuel, adjust the timing, and you're now getting your money's worth.
There is a lot more involved than this. You absolutely need a dyno when tuning timing, otherwise you will not know when to stop advancing.
You also need to learn how to use the temperature offset tables to adjust your maps based on changes in climate.
And since MAF pulldown (as opposed to open fuelling) is still based upon the ECU's "base map" then you have to be prepared for a little "drift" in your AFR over time. As you know, the ECU tries to adjust things for you to maintain the consersative OEM calibration. As a result the foundational values that your are "offsetting" in your maps may change over time. As such, you may need to re-log and make adjustments as necessary.
Hope that helps. And sorry again if I came across as lecturing..that was not my intent.
Cheers,
-Smoky
All the info is in there. But here's a few tips to make the next re-read more valuable. (and I realize some of these you may already know, but I offer them up anyway)
(True gurus.. please correct any of this if I'm in error)
- If you're NA, you disable the "open-fuelling option" in the parameters. Instead you will use "MAF pulldown". This means (in my simplistic terms, for lack of better understanding) that you will use the UTEC to "fool" the ECU in how it interprets the voltage coming from the MAF sensor. The MAF sensor reads the incoming air volume. Then it tells the ECU how much air is coming in so the ECU then knows how much fuel to spray from the injectors. Other factors are involved, of course, but the MAF output if all you are concerned about changing.
-After logging a run, you observe your WB O2 reading and see how far rich (below 13.0) or lean (above 13.0) you are running throughout the rpm band at 100% throttle while running in the 100% MAF load site.
-The "load column" contains load sites for each rpm row. The manual shows a table describing the voltage range for each load column. 0-10% is your "idle" MAF voltage range (0-0.5v I think..too lazy to look it up). 90-100% is your "Wide open Throttle" range (4.5-5.0v I think).
-In your maps, you tune the percentage difference of MAF voltage that you want the ECU to "see" at each rpm and load site (row / column). So, if in a column/row you set the fuel offset to "+0.5" then you will add 1/2 percent worth of voltage to fool the ECU into thinking more air is coming in. This results in more fuel added to the mixture at that rpm and at that load site.
-Your first goal is to tune your MAF offset percentage using your log data from the WB O2 column to add or subtract fuel until the WB O2 column reads as close to 13.0 all the way through your rpm band at full throttle.
-You then tune lower columns and choose a point where you let the ECU handle fuel, and a point where you begin to set offsets. Everyone has different points of transition. Some tuners are good enough to control the entire table. The main point is that wherever you transition it should be done "smoothly", and not with abrupt changes. Otherwise you may feel the transition point (possibly as a hesitation).
-During this process you leave your timing set to ECU so the ECU is still handling timing. Once you get your WB O2 log tuned in, then you move on to tuning timing. I recommend doing lots of reading about tuning timing, even back to the stuff about mechanical distributors, because it really helps to give you the basics about the physics of timing in a combustion engine. It is not nearly as simple as folks think. Tuning timing has a reputation for being a black art.
-When you tune timing, you follow the same process as when tuning fuel, except now you are tuning the number of degrees before or after "top dead center" when you want the plug to fire the mixture. What makes it different from fuel tuning is that setting the timing in the map table is not setting the offset. You are actually setting the timing itself. If you set the column/row item to "+18" then you are telling the engine to fire at 18 deg before top-dead center (BTDC). (in reality, for all I know, the UTEC may perform the operation as an offset behind the scenes, but as far as you are concerned, you tune the settings with actual timing values, and not percentage offsets).
-If you "add timing" then you are "advancing" the timing. If your current timing at 4250rpm and 90-100% load is 18deg BTDC, and you change the value to 22deg BTDC, then you have "advanced" the timing by 4 degrees.
-If you "take out timing" then you are "retarding" the timing. If your current timing at 6000 rpm and 80-90% load is 25deg BTDC, and you change the value to 20deg BTDC, then you have "retarded" the timing by 5 degrees.
-The goal when tuning timing is to find that sweet spot when you are firing not too soon before the piston reaches the top of the cylinder (TDC) and definitely not after. Our cars have advance tuned in from the factory. In an NA application you will likely want to advance the timing a few more degrees than stock.
-Our cars run lean from the factory in low rpms, and rich at high rpms. Why? Emissions. Lean is bad right? Well, not if you retard the timing. If you retard timing and make the plug fire later, when the piston is higher in the chamber, then you have less time to fully combust the entire mixture in the cylinder. But if you have less fuel, then it isn't as big of a concern. In the end, the result is simply a smaller combustion explosion, and subsequently less emissions per cylinder firing.
-Then the mixture is richened at the higher rpm range to keep the motor from blowing up at 7000 rpm. To keep things extra safe (and other reasons) the mixture may be riched a bit much beyond 13.0:1, such as 11.0:1. (air:fuel).
-The trick with timing is that there is an "effective range" of advance that you can work with. Imagine that this range is split into three sections. The first section (eg. from 18deg to 21deg) is the range where you are making the most use of the optimal AFR. At the top of this first range is where you make optimum power. The second range (eg. from 22-26) begins when advancing timing no longer creates power. Adding any more timing beyond this point will not get you more power or more efficiency. The third range (eg. from 26 and higher) begins when you start to get knock. This means that you are firing the plug too early in the combustion process. Firing too early means that instead of the combustion happening "just in time" to push back on the cylinder with the best force, it happens "too soon" and the process is nearly over by the time the piston reaches the top of the cylinder (TDC). Other variables are involved, such as an irregular flame front (the line of combustion between the fire and the mixture as it combusts), and the result is what you hear as knock or pinging.
-The basic idea with the UTEC is that you tune your WB O2 AFR reading to 13.0, and then you have the freedom to advance the timing because you are running an more optimal AFR. This is how you "release" the horsepower from each mod. Each mod should change the amount of fuel you need/don't need. Add a mod, tune the fuel, adjust the timing, and you're now getting your money's worth.
There is a lot more involved than this. You absolutely need a dyno when tuning timing, otherwise you will not know when to stop advancing.
You also need to learn how to use the temperature offset tables to adjust your maps based on changes in climate.
And since MAF pulldown (as opposed to open fuelling) is still based upon the ECU's "base map" then you have to be prepared for a little "drift" in your AFR over time. As you know, the ECU tries to adjust things for you to maintain the consersative OEM calibration. As a result the foundational values that your are "offsetting" in your maps may change over time. As such, you may need to re-log and make adjustments as necessary.
Hope that helps. And sorry again if I came across as lecturing..that was not my intent.
Cheers,
-Smoky
Last edited by SmokyTyrz; Sep 28, 2006 at 05:44 AM.
no offense taken and i really appreciate the advice and input. that post helps out alot.
i am not even driving my car again until i completely understand what's going on. i guess i am lucky the base map is working pretty good...but still taking no chances here.
smokey good advice...and happy tuning my friend. you sound like a pro and all that from just reading the manual. i am truly impressed. since i have absolutely no backround in tuning....this is all a little hard to take in right now but all the advice helps me to understand this much better than just the manual.
i appreciate everyone's input here and this is a great forum
i am not even driving my car again until i completely understand what's going on. i guess i am lucky the base map is working pretty good...but still taking no chances here.
smokey good advice...and happy tuning my friend. you sound like a pro and all that from just reading the manual. i am truly impressed. since i have absolutely no backround in tuning....this is all a little hard to take in right now but all the advice helps me to understand this much better than just the manual.
i appreciate everyone's input here and this is a great forum
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