h8bumps

iTrader: (4)

I bumped my timing 2 degrees with Cipher before installing my UTEC. Now when I data log timing with UTEC, it gives me different values than when I data log timing with Cipher.

Cipher is telling me my timing is still 2 degrees advanced, but UTEC is telling me the timing is NOT advanced. Which is correct???

BlackTuner

iTrader: (2)

When the UTEC is installed and you are in a UTEC Load Site with Timing plugged into the map, the car will run the UTEC Timing not what the factory ecu wants to run. Your cipher logger will be incorrect and your UTEC Mod. Ignition will be correct.

Thanks,

Jermaine~

h8bumps

iTrader: (4)

But what if my UTEC timing map is all 'ECU'?

BlackTuner

iTrader: (2)

Actually the values look very similar. The timestamp points are not the same yet they are still very close. It won't be exact for that reason.

Jermaine~

h8bumps

iTrader: (4)

There are a couple points where the difference is less than 2 degrees, but for the most part there is a 2 degree discrepancy between what UTEC is reading and what Cipher is reading. That's pretty significant.

I just want to know if UTEC can't read the 2 degree timing bump that I did with Cipher, or if UTEC is somehow preventing that timing bump.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Is this discrepency on the stock map (map 0)?

h8bumps

iTrader: (4)

Yes, that data was all from map 0.

BlackTuner

iTrader: (2)

The UTEC is only interpreting the factory ecu timing curve. It is not being manipulated just "watching". From the logs you are showing me it looks fine. The time stamps for each log are not the same yet they are still very close.

Wired 24/7

iTrader: (2)

What if you use cipher to change timing to -2 degrees instead of +2 and see what the UTEC says after that.


This looks similar to what happened with me and my EU -- tried to advance timing with EU but I believe stock ECU pulled timing back. Advancing timing with cipher worked just fine though.

350zfred5283

Wired --> It's a little tougher to bump the timing by 2° with UTEC because you have to change the entire map and not knowing what each target value is for each load/RPM value. With Cipher, it is possible to bump the entire load v RPM map without knowing the initial value.

h8bumps, I don't think UTEC is working right... This is what I would do:

- Log at IDLE with Cipher no bump
- Log at IDLE with Cipher 2° bump
- Create a map with Cipher bumping 2° @ 0%-10% load from IDLE data (ECU for rest of timing map)
- Log at IDLE with Cipher on the 2° bump @ 0%-10% load UTEC map

Also, change the range on your Y-axis for your excel charts so the difference is more apparant (you only need a range of 10°).

Late,
Nick

h8bumps

iTrader: (4)

Sitting at idle, I was able to hook up both Cipher and UTEC and log simultaneously. At idle, there was over a degree difference between what Cipher read and what UTEC read for timing.

Also, when I moved my timing back down 2 degrees with Cipher, UTEC's timing readout moved lower 2 degrees. So it wasn't just the 2 degree bump that was causing the issue.

I'm just trying to figure out which is reading my timing correctly, UTEC or Cipher. I guess my next step is to create a timing map and log it with Cipher to see if it coincides. Has anyone else noticed this issue?

DaveFunction2ND

iTrader: (8)

The possibility exists that they are both reading timing correctly. This depends on where the stock ECU and where the UTEC take their timing information from. The stock ecu may be reading off the base timing table or the mean timing table. Mean is the final ignition timing once modifiers have been introducted (ie - IAT, CLT, Knock, etc). The UTEC may be reading the final output of the ECU or it may be reading a different OBDII code but I assume it is not using the OBDII interface becasue the Cypher and UTEC can operate at the same time wihtout interfering with each other. This means that most likely the UTEC is measuring the actual output of the stock ecu to the coils and comparing that to its own CAS information. These are only educated guesses BTW. BlackTuner might be able to provide more insight.

KPierson

iTrader: (1)

The Cipher will NOT read modified UTEC timing correctly.

BlackTuner

iTrader: (2)

Right, becuse the factory ecu is not driving the car. This means when ever you have a timing value in the UTEC Map and assuming you are on this same active map. The utec is firing your Ignition Coils. Your engine ignition timing can be found in the Mod. Ingnition Column.

With that said the UTEC reads the actual ignition #1 signal output from ecu. No factors, no comps, raw output to the coils.



Jermaine~