Got It Tuned, Na 2003
05-07-2008, 03:17 PM
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Got It Tuned, Na 2003
I finally got it tuned. I had it done at MRC MOTORSPORTS in NJ and they did a awsome job. The car definitely is quicker and has much much more midrange response. overall worth getting to hold me over until i go FI
keep in mind this is a 2003 automatic with 90k miles
272.9 corrected ( dyno jet#'s )
241.5 (dyno dynamics)
keep in mind this is a 2003 automatic with 90k miles
272.9 corrected ( dyno jet#'s )
241.5 (dyno dynamics)
05-07-2008, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by UpRev
Congrats, a tune can make all the difference in the world. 
On a side note, you guys ready to talk business??
05-08-2008, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Julian@MRC
This is true, especially when your simply a bad azz tuner like me. On a side note, you guys ready to talk business??
On a side note, you guys ready to talk business??The baseline seems low for all those bolt-ons, what kind of numbers do you seetuning a stock or nearly stock VQ35DE (pre-rev-up)? I'm very interested because I don't see the stock exhaust as being all that restrictive, and the stock exhaust at the mani isn't that bad, either. That makes me wonder how much more might be there with just intake, fewer mods. My baseline bone stock on the dynojet for my '04 was ~239 whp, 225 ft-lbs peak power. Since then I've focused more on handling and only put in an intake and Z-tube.
NICE work, nice results
05-08-2008, 09:14 AM
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well the baseline (dyno jet) numbers where 256whp and keep in mind i have 90k miles and burn a $hit load of oil. And after the tune it was 272.9 whp (dyno jet numbers), the tune did make the biggest difference overall but still nothing crazy. I thought the second biggest difference was the exhaust system and hfc's. It really is like night and day difference verses stock. The intake I felt as well, but the headers I didn't fell anything at all and I consider to have been a waist of time and money in my opinion.
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05-08-2008, 09:24 AM
#8
These sound like standard fare results. I expect same out of my
NA tune that I haven't gotten around to. Wanted to get a plenum
spacer and hfcs before I dropped the hammer on a utec or fcon.
In terms of feel - Where do you sense the biggest increase in your
power band? I seem to lose a lot of torque in fourth - i.e. when
accelerating around 90-100mph. Any good up there?
NA tune that I haven't gotten around to. Wanted to get a plenum
spacer and hfcs before I dropped the hammer on a utec or fcon.
In terms of feel - Where do you sense the biggest increase in your
power band? I seem to lose a lot of torque in fourth - i.e. when
accelerating around 90-100mph. Any good up there?
05-08-2008, 09:45 AM
#9
Originally Posted by dave3529
well the baseline (dyno jet) numbers where 256whp and keep in mind i have 90k miles and burn a $hit load of oil. And after the tune it was 272.9 whp (dyno jet numbers), the tune did make the biggest difference overall but still nothing crazy. I thought the second biggest difference was the exhaust system and hfc's. It really is like night and day difference verses stock. The intake I felt as well, but the headers I didn't fell anything at all and I consider to have been a waist of time and money in my opinion.
05-08-2008, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveZ
How much of these results do you attribute to the mani/HFC's/H/E? Or, better way to put it, car with fewer mods, in your experience, how much improvement do you see through ECU tuning?
The baseline seems low for all those bolt-ons, what kind of numbers do you seetuning a stock or nearly stock VQ35DE (pre-rev-up)? I'm very interested because I don't see the stock exhaust as being all that restrictive, and the stock exhaust at the mani isn't that bad, either. That makes me wonder how much more might be there with just intake, fewer mods. My baseline bone stock on the dynojet for my '04 was ~239 whp, 225 ft-lbs peak power. Since then I've focused more on handling and only put in an intake and Z-tube.
NICE work, nice results
The baseline seems low for all those bolt-ons, what kind of numbers do you seetuning a stock or nearly stock VQ35DE (pre-rev-up)? I'm very interested because I don't see the stock exhaust as being all that restrictive, and the stock exhaust at the mani isn't that bad, either. That makes me wonder how much more might be there with just intake, fewer mods. My baseline bone stock on the dynojet for my '04 was ~239 whp, 225 ft-lbs peak power. Since then I've focused more on handling and only put in an intake and Z-tube.
NICE work, nice results
Please realize that a dyno to dyno comparison is not possible. The technology of the dyno does not truly allow it. Posting dyno graphs doesn't help but confuse the situation for most people. Raw numbers are always skewed even on back to back runs as the loads and resistances vary even from the tires heating up. Putting a car on a dyno after mods have been bolted on skews the numbers even further.
A Dyno is a tool used just like any other tool. It is good for diagnostic graphs and tuning. You can check point to point smoothness, it will show you under slight loads what your AFR is looking like and it help you distinguish whether or not the modification to the tables you've made has gained or lost you power in parts of the graph.
05-08-2008, 01:13 PM
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I feel the most difference in first and second gear, i little difference in third gear. No different in fourth or fifth really. The only downside I have experienced is it really really bogs down when you first step on it when its in first gear if below 4k rpms only (even from a stop). Its hesitates for about 2k rpms and then hauls a$$. I am guessing its the utec switching from the stock ecu (stock ecu to utec transition) but I'm new to this so I am only guessing. Other than that its overall great.
05-08-2008, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dave3529
I feel the most difference in first and second gear, i little difference in third gear. No different in fourth or fifth really. The only downside I have experienced is it really really bogs down when you first step on it when its in first gear if below 4k rpms only (even from a stop). Its hesitates for about 2k rpms and then hauls a$$. I am guessing its the utec switching from the stock ecu (stock ecu to utec transition) but I'm new to this so I am only guessing. Other than that its overall great.
05-08-2008, 05:05 PM
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See what the tunner can do 
.Good gains btw! I dynoed 260 on Julians dyno..with just a pop charger/ TPs / exhaust. Cant wait for julian to tune mine soon. utecs on the wayy
.Good gains btw! I dynoed 260 on Julians dyno..with just a pop charger/ TPs / exhaust. Cant wait for julian to tune mine soon. utecs on the wayy
05-09-2008, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by dave3529
well the baseline (dyno jet) numbers where 256whp and keep in mind i have 90k miles and burn a $hit load of oil. And after the tune it was 272.9 whp (dyno jet numbers), the tune did make the biggest difference overall but still nothing crazy. I thought the second biggest difference was the exhaust system and hfc's. It really is like night and day difference verses stock. The intake I felt as well, but the headers I didn't fell anything at all and I consider to have been a waist of time and money in my opinion.
The headers are low on my list, too, given the stock exhaust manifold piping is pretty good.
HFC's always seem to help, especially on my smaller cars with I-4's, but I'm waiting for my stock exhaust to be more in need of replacement (Winter driving here makes that not much more than 4-5 years). Plus the OEM piping is 3", which was a surprise.
I wonder if the hesitation is more of an AT issue than anything else.
05-09-2008, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by UpRev
Please realize that a dyno to dyno comparison is not possible. The technology of the dyno does not truly allow it. Posting dyno graphs doesn't help but confuse the situation for most people. Raw numbers are always skewed even on back to back runs as the loads and resistances vary even from the tires heating up. Putting a car on a dyno after mods have been bolted on skews the numbers even further.
A Dyno is a tool used just like any other tool. It is good for diagnostic graphs and tuning. You can check point to point smoothness, it will show you under slight loads what your AFR is looking like and it help you distinguish whether or not the modification to the tables you've made has gained or lost you power in parts of the graph.
A Dyno is a tool used just like any other tool. It is good for diagnostic graphs and tuning. You can check point to point smoothness, it will show you under slight loads what your AFR is looking like and it help you distinguish whether or not the modification to the tables you've made has gained or lost you power in parts of the graph.
Please note my question was directed to the specific owner/operator/tuner of this dyno only, based on his experience, on his dyno, in his location, which is reasonably comparable from day to day except for variations in temperature and atmospheric pressure.
My comments on the baseline w/mods seeming "low" is relative to many baseline dyno's I have seen on the VQ35DE of same vintage, on many cars, Dynojet, Mustang Dyno, in different shops all over the country.
No, you cannot make a direct comparison. You can however see a pattern where baseline dyno's in many different places tend to shake out in the high 230's to low 260's for peak hp stock for '03 VQ35DE. The lowest I have seen on any dyno for a baseline was 232 whp peak at 6250 rpm. The highest was ~265 whp for a early 2004 Z33 6MT (motor same as 2003 MY).
Thus my comments that with a fairly significant level of bolt-on mods costing several thousand $$$'s, dave3529's starting numbers seemed low to me. However all the dyno's I have seen prior to this one were also only 6MT's, so again, no real comparison, I have no sense for real drivetrain loss in a 1:1 gear with the AT.
I would like to see A/F ratio, since w/o those numbers, peak hp is all nice, but not quite so meaningful.
05-09-2008, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveZ
Thank you Mr. Obvious-Man
Please note my question was directed to the specific owner/operator/tuner of this dyno only, based on his experience, on his dyno, in his location, which is reasonably comparable from day to day except for variations in temperature and atmospheric pressure.
My comments on the baseline w/mods seeming "low" is relative to many baseline dyno's I have seen on the VQ35DE of same vintage, on many cars, Dynojet, Mustang Dyno, in different shops all over the country.
No, you cannot make a direct comparison. You can however see a pattern where baseline dyno's in many different places tend to shake out in the high 230's to low 260's for peak hp stock for '03 VQ35DE. The lowest I have seen on any dyno for a baseline was 232 whp peak at 6250 rpm. The highest was ~265 whp for a early 2004 Z33 6MT (motor same as 2003 MY).
Thus my comments that with a fairly significant level of bolt-on mods costing several thousand $$$'s, dave3529's starting numbers seemed low to me. However all the dyno's I have seen prior to this one were also only 6MT's, so again, no real comparison, I have no sense for real drivetrain loss in a 1:1 gear with the AT.
I would like to see A/F ratio, since w/o those numbers, peak hp is all nice, but not quite so meaningful.
Please note my question was directed to the specific owner/operator/tuner of this dyno only, based on his experience, on his dyno, in his location, which is reasonably comparable from day to day except for variations in temperature and atmospheric pressure.
My comments on the baseline w/mods seeming "low" is relative to many baseline dyno's I have seen on the VQ35DE of same vintage, on many cars, Dynojet, Mustang Dyno, in different shops all over the country.
No, you cannot make a direct comparison. You can however see a pattern where baseline dyno's in many different places tend to shake out in the high 230's to low 260's for peak hp stock for '03 VQ35DE. The lowest I have seen on any dyno for a baseline was 232 whp peak at 6250 rpm. The highest was ~265 whp for a early 2004 Z33 6MT (motor same as 2003 MY).
Thus my comments that with a fairly significant level of bolt-on mods costing several thousand $$$'s, dave3529's starting numbers seemed low to me. However all the dyno's I have seen prior to this one were also only 6MT's, so again, no real comparison, I have no sense for real drivetrain loss in a 1:1 gear with the AT.
I would like to see A/F ratio, since w/o those numbers, peak hp is all nice, but not quite so meaningful.
Thats CAPTAIN Obvious to you sir.
I just try and point that stuff out because too many people think Dyno numbers are serious business. You know better so I'll let it be. You do have some good questions though and it would be good information to post so that others know what they are in for when/if they should go to that tuner. I'm also kind of interested on the true loss of the Auto on these cars. Maybe next time we do a push on newer cars we'll try and get that info from our data, would make for interesting comparisons.
05-09-2008, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveZ
Thank you Mr. Obvious-Man
Please note my question was directed to the specific owner/operator/tuner of this dyno only, based on his experience, on his dyno, in his location, which is reasonably comparable from day to day except for variations in temperature and atmospheric pressure.
My comments on the baseline w/mods seeming "low" is relative to many baseline dyno's I have seen on the VQ35DE of same vintage, on many cars, Dynojet, Mustang Dyno, in different shops all over the country.
No, you cannot make a direct comparison. You can however see a pattern where baseline dyno's in many different places tend to shake out in the high 230's to low 260's for peak hp stock for '03 VQ35DE. The lowest I have seen on any dyno for a baseline was 232 whp peak at 6250 rpm. The highest was ~265 whp for a early 2004 Z33 6MT (motor same as 2003 MY).
Thus my comments that with a fairly significant level of bolt-on mods costing several thousand $$$'s, dave3529's starting numbers seemed low to me. However all the dyno's I have seen prior to this one were also only 6MT's, so again, no real comparison, I have no sense for real drivetrain loss in a 1:1 gear with the AT.
I would like to see A/F ratio, since w/o those numbers, peak hp is all nice, but not quite so meaningful.
Please note my question was directed to the specific owner/operator/tuner of this dyno only, based on his experience, on his dyno, in his location, which is reasonably comparable from day to day except for variations in temperature and atmospheric pressure.
My comments on the baseline w/mods seeming "low" is relative to many baseline dyno's I have seen on the VQ35DE of same vintage, on many cars, Dynojet, Mustang Dyno, in different shops all over the country.
No, you cannot make a direct comparison. You can however see a pattern where baseline dyno's in many different places tend to shake out in the high 230's to low 260's for peak hp stock for '03 VQ35DE. The lowest I have seen on any dyno for a baseline was 232 whp peak at 6250 rpm. The highest was ~265 whp for a early 2004 Z33 6MT (motor same as 2003 MY).
Thus my comments that with a fairly significant level of bolt-on mods costing several thousand $$$'s, dave3529's starting numbers seemed low to me. However all the dyno's I have seen prior to this one were also only 6MT's, so again, no real comparison, I have no sense for real drivetrain loss in a 1:1 gear with the AT.
I would like to see A/F ratio, since w/o those numbers, peak hp is all nice, but not quite so meaningful.
What we tend to find on the N/A 350Z is that test pipes,exhausts and plenums will make power, when combined...When you begin to introduce more bolt ons like headers and intakes,cams Ect..The stock ECU can not compensate properly for the Airflow under WOT. Thus robbing the car of added HP it should have seen..Plus we all know how honest parts manufacturers are when they claim HP gains on their products..
The OPS car asctually had a decent A/F but the car went super rich when the trottle was initially mashed. We leaned it out, smoothed the curve and added some timing and put in power he lost with the addition of the headers and then some.
Also keep in mind the OP's car has fairly high mileage on it, and is a 2003 the lower HP on the baseline may have been a combination of several factors..The only thing one needs ot take into account is the before tune and post tune and the gains that day on that dyno...
Comparing Dyno to dyno is useless..
05-09-2008, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by UpRev
Thats CAPTAIN Obvious to you sir. I just try and point that stuff out because too many people think Dyno numbers are serious business.
I just try and point that stuff out because too many people think Dyno numbers are serious business.
Originally Posted by UpRev
I'm also kind of interested on the true loss of the Auto on these cars.
05-09-2008, 12:52 PM
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The weather doesn't affect it, does evey time but maybe its pulling timing? It is very noticeable. If I floor it from a stop it won't even chirp the tires, it just kinda rolls forward as if it was 15-20% throttle then once it hits about 4k rpms it takes off like a bat outta hell, (fast). Any ideas?