CaneZMD

iTrader: (1)

My Z has DW600's and a Vortech kit. It was dyno tuned a couple of days ago and it runs great. I never have a problem over 3000 rpm, under boost, or while cruising (ie: maintaining a set speed). But if I push the pedal about halfway down when I'm between 2000 and 3000 rpm, the car runs lean to about 16-17, it hesitates and has very little power until I get past 3000 or push the pedal down further.

The utec is set to switch to open loop at 2000 rpm and 0 psi. (with min MAP map value of -1 to max of 10 psi) This condition happens between 2000 and 3000 rpm and under vaccuum of -10 to 0. So I don't believe that the UTEC is switching to open loop. I think what is happening is that the factory ECU is outside of it's closed loop mode because the tps is about 50% but the utec isn't yet in open loop mode to dump more fuel. During this in between time the car is running lean between 16 and 17 afr.

If I understand it right, this area should fall under the 0% load column. Between 2000 and 3000, my 0% load column is at -17; then it decreases from -17.7 to -22 from 3000 to 4000 rpm. The car idles and cruises fine with these settings, but under moderate throttle it runs lean and hesitates. Any Ideas?

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

welcome to the world of utec tradeoffs. richen up those load sites and see how it acts. also take a log so you are not guessing what load site and what rpm range it is happening in.

thats way more scaled than I use, but again every car is different.

sounds like your tuner needs to give you your money back though.

athenG

iTrader: (2)

You open loop threshold kick in a little late. There is always a delay so that is wise to setup your Open loop Map threshold a little earlier than your Min Map Value. If you are set to -1 to 10psi then try setting up your open loop map to -2psi. Can you also post some logs? It is hard to give accurate advice without seeing what is really happening. Also take into account that not all tuner are meticulous with their work, if you are having problem only below 3000rpm then your tuner may have not devoted enough time tuning the lower rpm assuming you'll not hit that load that often.

CaneZMD

iTrader: (1)

I obviously need to do some logging, I'm gonna try to work on that tonight. But this lean condition happens before boost, in vaccuum of -8 to -2 with a tps around 50%. If the utec is under vacuum, then it's not in open loop fueling yet. So changing the 10-20% columns shouldn't do anything. Maybe the 0% column is pulling too much fuel. Is -17 about normal for the 2000 to 3000 rpm range with DW 600's?

Maybe if I changed it to -15 or -12 it would enrich the mixture a little.

athenG

iTrader: (2)

I thought you were having problem going into boost.. Anyways -17 is a little high but this is base on other 600cc DW Map that I have seen. Try -12-14 and see if it makes a difference.. this is definitely scaling issue if it happen at -8psi.

athenG

iTrader: (2)

by they way what do you have in your 0% at 500-1500rpm ?

CaneZMD

iTrader: (1)

In the 0%column:
500= -10
750= -11.1
1000= -12.1
1250= -14
1500= -17
1750= -19
2000= -17
2250-3000= -17

It doesn't happen at -8 psi, sorry about that. It happens at -8 to -2 inHg, which is about -4 to -1 psi. The car idles and runs in closed loop mode fine, but yeah, I'm gonna talk to the tuner and maybe change the 1500 to 3000 cells down to -14.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

ya thats pretty much backwards of how I have my 0%. i have it leaner at the low rpms and slightly richer as the revs go up.

simplist way to adjust this yourself would be just pull the blower belt and do some logs. that way you can get on it and never go into open loop. should take a hour of street tuning tops to get a flattish AFR plot.

CaneZMD

iTrader: (1)

I'm gonna try to take the belt off and turn off open loop in the utec and see if I can get the 0% load any better. So just some logged wot pulls w/o the sc should do it right?

I tried changing the 0% load from 2000-3000 from -17 to -14 but it still runs way lean there. So is the consensus here that the 0% load starts at say -20 and then changes to -10 as the rpm rises? Because mine starts at -10 at idle and changes to -22 by about 4000 rpm.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

what are u considering way lean? a good na tune will run low 14's to high 13s all the way to 5500 rpms.
mine is -14 til 2000
-12 til 3250
-11 til 4250
-10 the rest of the map

you should post a log on the forum

CaneZMD

iTrader: (1)

When I say way lean, I mean afr's of 16-17; and that's with a -14 in the 0% column upto 3000 rpm.

That's really interesting that your map is -10 to redline. I got a map off another user and his was very similar to mine with the 0% starting at -10 and increasing past -25 on the way to redline. Complete opposites to what you have. And all three of our cars are running the same utec/walbro/dw600 fuel combo.

I'm still working on the logging. I have a zietronix and the utec. I have a pos 8 year old dell laptop running windows ME that I lost the power supply to. So I'm basically turning it on, changing settings and turning it back off. I'm gonna buy a netbook just for tuning this weekend.

I also need to get that MPS software so that I can log the afr from the zeitronix with the utec data. I could post a utec log, but that wouldn't help without the afr in their too.

I'll post a log as soon as I get one. Thanks str8.

05Z33

iTrader: (11)

I just sent you a PM

CaneZMD

iTrader: (1)

As an update, I'm starting to think that the problem is in the 10% load column. I was driving in to work today and really focusing on the zeitronix display; and the car runs at 14.0 afr to 3000 rpm with pressures of -4 inHg which is -2 psi. The problem happened this morning at -1.5 inHg which is -1 psi. The AFR rose to 17.1 at 2700 rpm and -1 psi.

My map min. is -1, so that should be the 10% load column. On the turbonetics basemap550, that cell is 99... on my tune, that same cell is 53. So from my understanding 99 equals 9.9 ms, and 53 equals 5.3 ms. So my injectors are opening only half as long as the tune on the turbonetics 550 base map. I know that the turbonetics map is made to run super rich, but this discrepancy is huge.

Unfortunately my laptop battery is dead. So I'll be ordering a netbook today and I'll post some logs as soon as it ships.

k6750gsxr

iTrader: (17)

So let me get this straight. You paid some one to tune your car and now u are re tunning it yourself ?

I would be upset and telling the tuner to re tune it correctly.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

thats exactly why i said you have to log bc you arent sure what load column you are looking at.

my 10% column starts in the 60s and end in the 100's (but realistically only stays in the 10% load column for 1000 rpm until i hit enough boost to go to the 20% load). your map is too lean, which is obviously what you're seeing. Hell 2700 might even be the 40 or 50% load column for yours. its 30% for mine and i dont start my 10% until like 1 psi which give me 2psi more resolution.

i would really go get your money back or have them retune for free as who knows what else is going on.

athenG

iTrader: (2)

You cant just look at the guage coz this thing happen so fast that you have to be sure what load you are running.. The only way is to log and that is it and the last thing you want is to make adjustment on the wrong load.

Now I believe you are set to 0psi in your Open Loop Threshold, now it dont matter if your load 10% is -1psi coz you will never hit that coz you wont hit open loop until 0psi. Now 9.9ms look ok for 0-1psi but that is going to be to rich at -1psi. Try setting your Open Loop Map Threshold to -2 and I bet you you will run rich... There is always a delay and that is why you want your Open Loop Map Threshold to hit soon than you Min Map Value for Mapping. For example, if your min map value is 1psi then a good rule thumb is to set your Open Loop threshold to 0psi. In my case I have 1psi for my min map value and I have my Open Loop Threshold at -.5psi.

Logs will tell you everything so do us a favor and do that first before you make any assumptions. If your log say -1psi@Load 10 and 2700rpm, and your A/F is still 17:1 then bingo make adjustment on that load but until you are sure then dont make any changes...

By they way there is a thread in the FI about wideband shootout and the zeitronix rank at the bottom in term...

Here's the WB Shootout https://my350z.com/forum/forced-indu...-shootout.html

CaneZMD

iTrader: (1)

Just as an aside, I made this post to get some help figuring out what to do with my map. I don't need social advice on business dealings. To indulge your curiousity though, my tuner is pretty well respected down here and has tuned cars for other folks on this forum. Unfortunately, he is in west palm and I'm in south broward. That means it takes over an hour to get there, plus tuning plus traffic.... basically means I need 5 hours during business hours to take the car back. I'm a doctor, so getting 5 business hours together pretty much requires vacation. I will certainly take the car back when I get the time, and I would've done that already if it was a 15 minute trip.

As far as the maps, I increased my 10% load column to the 70's and now it runs 11.x afr's with no lean areas. My threshold is -1, my min and max map are -1 and 10 respectively. So 10% load is -1 and 100% load is 10 and the rest are easily figured with simple math. Since my problem was between -2 inhg and 0, it was a pretty safe assumption that my problem was in the 10% load column.

As far as logs, I bought a netbook that's shipping today for the sole purpose of logging. It should get here Tuesday.

As far as the zeitronix goes, dude, I've had the zeitronix for over 5 years now. There weren't that many options back then. I was a pre-order 2003 z and I got the vortech within months of it coming out. (I've had the vortech for 5 years and 50,000 miles with the SS box, I just recently upgraded) As far as the shootout, the rankings had all kinds of things and the only thing that really matters is accuracy and latency. It was middle of the pack for both. It was almost last in the test because they didn't like the display/software/etc.

So thanks for all the help, and I'll post some logs on tuesday or wednesday when I get the netbook working.

frankie945

iTrader: (35)

Check out UTI for logging it is better then MPS here is a link
http://www.jeffsoftware.com/
This is kind of a help pages for UTI
https://my350z.com/forum/tuning/1893...pgrade-20.html

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

11 is WAYY too rich in the 10%. shoot for mid 12's

CaneZMD

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Str8, that's the plan. That change was the last one I was able to make before my laptop died. I get the new one on wednesday so I'll start tuning and logging then.