I did a quick run today and logged it. Outside temp was about 78* and A/F was mid 11's. This is on my vortech running 9-10psi max on 93oct gas.



I can hear no audible knock and my dyno chart didn't show any obvious signs that it is knocking. Anyone see anything that you would think is not good or just down right wrong?

I've never tuned a car that ignores it's knock sensors when it needs it the most...lol.

 

Almost 300 views and no one has anything to say or suggest?

 

what PSI do you have above 5500rpm? 21 deg is a little high. I wont even go above 18deg at 8psi above 5500rpm...

 

I get a max of 10psi at about 6.5K to 7K but at about 5.5K I'm at around 8psi. I also thought 21 deg was pretty high but on the dyno the graph would never get "spikey" even at 24deg so I left it at 20-21. Sometimes I feel like lowering it though just in case.

 

ECU changes timing all the time base on many variable but 21 deg is high in my opinion even at 8psi. You are running 10psi close to redline and you are still running 21-22 deg. That is even higher than what the stock ecu would run. You might as well let the stock ecu control timing because that is what you are running... just my .02.

Here is a sample of one of my logs and you'll see that my stock ECU ignition [SIG] was below 20 deg and that was in February where temp was colder. You can see my IAT is just around 11C-17C (51F - 62F). Utec ignition which is the actual igntion running is the column [IGN].

IDC is high because because I was still running 8psi. I usually just run 6-7psi in the Winter to bring down the IDC below 90% around redline.

By the way this was my old tune, I'm running 2 deg more right now because of my Water/Meth... still conservative IMO...

 

I could have sworn timing would go to 27-29deg on the stock map. I just opened my stock osiris map and the timing map is considerably higher than the one I'm running now ( about 5 deg or so ) so I do have timing retarded....just maybe not as conservative?

Question, what makes you think you can't advance yours?

I've been like this for about 2 weeks and have already gone through two tanks of gas cause of how hard I've beaten on it and it has yet to even make a pinging sound.

Granted, I too see the timing kinda high but I'm used to two engine VASTLY different than the VQ so I'm not sure how the VQ does with timing. I'm also using a 1 step colder plug which helps as well.

I'm gonna pull a slight bit of timing just in case....but I'm curious...hehehe.

 

You are talking about NA timing though right? NA will not see that much air flow and that is why ECU will not retard timing that much. Also there is a difference between looking at the Map vs the actual logs that the ECU is running...


I have talked to tuners from these board and from local tuner too and they all adviced me not too. At first my car was tuned by Julian@MRC and my timing was a lot lower than what I have. Also I tried to advance more but I wasnt making that much power anymore so what is the point of advancing if I'm not making anymore power.

My question is, was there a significant power difference when you were running 17 deg vs 22deg? If there is not a significant power being made then why use 22 deg if you can just stick with 17deg? Tuning for MBT is your best bet. Do you have a way to monitor knock? You cant play with timing without a way to monitor detonation. Basic rule of thumb is you advance your timing until you start detonating, once you get there then you retard your timing about 2-3 deg and that is should be your maximum timing.. You also can also start monitor your TQ curve, if you keep adding 2-3 deg and you start not seeing any power increase then it is safe to say that you are close to your MBT and should back off a little. This is why I wont use Osiris for street tuning because it doesn't have a way to monitor knock and not to mention it doesn't support 3rd party WB so street tuning is a pain...

 

The difference was about 30whp from my 18deg run to my 24deg run ( my last run was 24deg ) and then I just lowered it to 21-22deg. I'm gonna keep it at 19-20deg for now.

I do agree that the lack of knock monitoring does suck and I have a Turbo XS knock lite which I can't get it to work.

Thanks for being the ONLY person to answer my thread...lol.

 

is this with a built motor? Maybe your GAS in Puerto Rico is much better than the US... lol

 

Stock motor.

We get a mix of gas from the US and from Venezuela so maybe venezuela's gas is 100oct...lol.

I usually put Shell gasoline so I doubt it's any different than US gas.

 

Today I changed map2 to reflect map 1 but with 2 deg less of timing and it feels pretty much the same so I'm going to leave it on map 2.

 

Don't forget that the timing maps seen in Osiris are not in degrees BTDC, but rather "burn time". So you really cant compare Osiris timing values to UTEC timing values.

 

That's when looking at the maps but when looking at logs it's the same thing.

 

Gotcha. I didn't realize that!

 

All motors are different and it's very hard to say how close you are to the detonation threshold without listening with headphones and monitoring torque output on a dyno. So many things will affect the propensity to knock. You might be fine today but knock when it gets 20 deg hotter outside or when you build up oil residue in your plenum and start ingesting, etc. Your #s don't look too far off base to me, but there is no way to know without seeing what taking 1 or 2 degrees away or adding them back in does to your power levels.

On the dyno you will realize less gains as you approach max brake torque timing values. On a stock compression motor at 8 psi, I don't know if you'll reach the knock threshold first or not (so you need to listen in). I'll be using this when I tune myself next time around (have no idea if it works well or not):

http://uprev.com/documentation/Knock...n%20Device.pdf

 

Ha, that's actually pretty cool.

 

ya, it seems high to me also.

On my full built engine with low compression Hal tuned mine up to 20* at 7700rpms so i would think that is pushing the limit on a stock block.

like RC said, every car is different though. Depending on what you are wanting to do i personally would dial it back. Even if it is fine for now, it will have risk for grenading later on.

Definitely pull back your high det maps really far and then do a run to see if it ever switches over to the high det map.

max i ever pushed my stock block was 17* at redline with my vortech.

 

I have the high det map with really really low timing so I know when it switches. I have it at about 18deg now though so I'll just leave it.

 

correct me if I am wrong but I thought that Osiris works with the stock ecu, so when it does knock the ecu automatically retards timing.

 

yes but it doesnt monitor knock above 5000rpm