Question about tuning osiris with limited equipment(osiris tuners chime in)
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From: terre haute, IN; STL, MO
Question about tuning osiris with limited equipment(osiris tuners chime in)
For a few years now I've been tuning with osiris and haltech on the side for some locals. I've run into a bit of a pickle with a local that wants me to tune so I figured I would ask some others using osiris their thoughts before I say yes.
The car has no oem widebands and an autometer aftermarket wideband. So that basically means nothing to log af. I moved back to Indiana and don't have a dyno to rent within an hour nor have I even worked with those shops so this will have to be a street tune.
I have an innovate LM-2 data logger with wideband that I can hook up and use but it has a connection issue with the usb port so I can only save my logs on the handheld then transfer them to the computer with the SD card. So basically the Innovate wideband support from osiris will not work. Big bummer. Sidenote: innovate won't even look at my LM-2 to tell me it needs fixed without charging me 100$ so wonderful product support on a 3 year old device that cost me 600$.
Anyways, I use the maf map when I tune with osiris so my thoughts were to log maf voltage, timing, a/f and o2 corrections with the handheld then take the sd card out and look though and adjust the scans based off of my logs. This is a long way of doing it but the best I have for now. The only thing that I don't like with doing this is the vac map. There are a lot of data points and it might take a while to correct. My question on that is once I get the injector latency and K multiplier dialed in for those injectors won't the o2 corrections for the vac map be fairly close so I won't have to spend hours manually adjusting the vac map?
Thanks for any insight.
Jeff
The car has no oem widebands and an autometer aftermarket wideband. So that basically means nothing to log af. I moved back to Indiana and don't have a dyno to rent within an hour nor have I even worked with those shops so this will have to be a street tune.
I have an innovate LM-2 data logger with wideband that I can hook up and use but it has a connection issue with the usb port so I can only save my logs on the handheld then transfer them to the computer with the SD card. So basically the Innovate wideband support from osiris will not work. Big bummer. Sidenote: innovate won't even look at my LM-2 to tell me it needs fixed without charging me 100$ so wonderful product support on a 3 year old device that cost me 600$.
Anyways, I use the maf map when I tune with osiris so my thoughts were to log maf voltage, timing, a/f and o2 corrections with the handheld then take the sd card out and look though and adjust the scans based off of my logs. This is a long way of doing it but the best I have for now. The only thing that I don't like with doing this is the vac map. There are a lot of data points and it might take a while to correct. My question on that is once I get the injector latency and K multiplier dialed in for those injectors won't the o2 corrections for the vac map be fairly close so I won't have to spend hours manually adjusting the vac map?
Thanks for any insight.
Jeff
I gave up Osiris tuning a while ago, but...
I think you are correct that once you get the injector latency and K multiplier dialed in, the rest should follow, but it will be a tedious, iterative process on the street. How will you identify what is the correct load cell for a given MAF voltage? Adjusting just the MAF calibration curve is not what you are suggesting, is it? With all the load points under vacuum I don't think the car will behave very nicely (consider the resonance in fueling we encounter sometimes at certain rpms). I suspect after you dial in the MAF table, you would need to map MAF voltage to the appropriate load values first with Cipher on a laptop. Then you can use MAF voltage and map back to the appropriate cell when reading the logs... Sounds like a lot of work and I doubt you'll get it perfect, but you can probably get it into the ballpark. Just target high 13s for AFs under vacuum and be happy with anything in the range of 12-15!
EDIT: see if u can get djamps to provide his thoughts...
I think you are correct that once you get the injector latency and K multiplier dialed in, the rest should follow, but it will be a tedious, iterative process on the street. How will you identify what is the correct load cell for a given MAF voltage? Adjusting just the MAF calibration curve is not what you are suggesting, is it? With all the load points under vacuum I don't think the car will behave very nicely (consider the resonance in fueling we encounter sometimes at certain rpms). I suspect after you dial in the MAF table, you would need to map MAF voltage to the appropriate load values first with Cipher on a laptop. Then you can use MAF voltage and map back to the appropriate cell when reading the logs... Sounds like a lot of work and I doubt you'll get it perfect, but you can probably get it into the ballpark. Just target high 13s for AFs under vacuum and be happy with anything in the range of 12-15!
EDIT: see if u can get djamps to provide his thoughts...
Last edited by rcdash; Jun 2, 2013 at 05:35 PM.
What do you mean by the vac map? Is this a haltech map or the low load portion of the fuel and timing maps? Not familiar with it under uprev.
You can get the current load cell from uprev. Log under the ROM editor which has the ability to log BFS and RPM. I use it to plot knock strength, actual AFR and actual timing back to the fuel and timing maps. Will eventually have boost, whp and wtq plotted on the same tables.
Nice thing about street tuning is that you can use statistical methods to make real data driven adjustments and automate the calculation of correction numbers.
You can get the current load cell from uprev. Log under the ROM editor which has the ability to log BFS and RPM. I use it to plot knock strength, actual AFR and actual timing back to the fuel and timing maps. Will eventually have boost, whp and wtq plotted on the same tables.
Nice thing about street tuning is that you can use statistical methods to make real data driven adjustments and automate the calculation of correction numbers.
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From: terre haute, IN; STL, MO
That's what I thought Raj. I'd like to help but it seems like it will take forever with the driving map. The boost map is just go to the maf voltage and adjust it up or down for a/f. Very simple.
Bala, I use the term "vac map" to denote anything not in boost. So basically everywhere on the map that is regular cruise. There is no wideband integrated on this car so without a dyno I'm flying blind basically.
Bala, I use the term "vac map" to denote anything not in boost. So basically everywhere on the map that is regular cruise. There is no wideband integrated on this car so without a dyno I'm flying blind basically.
Maybe I am missing something. For the vacuum portions of the fuel and timing maps can you not just leave the stock target afr and timing in place That would just leave maf tuning the low voltages which you could do by logging af correction and using djamps web tool. Should take just a few iterations.
FYI, the MAF tool won't be of any use in closed loop with no stock widebands. I'm also dubious as to whether it's useful at all without OEM widebands, but I do have a few reports of success tuning closed loop (part throttle) going off corrections only.
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Ah. Didn't know if you were using corrections or calculating the corrections yourself. The first version of my scripts used the corrections logged by uprev but I noticed that this was useless when the car went into open loop because the correction pegged at 100. So I redid the script calculating my own correction with the relation:
100 * (1/target_afr - 1/current_afr) * current_afr + 100
When the car is in closed loop the corrections logged by uprev seem to correspond with this calculated value but I did not crunch the data to see if they are exactly the same.
I then use this data to modify the MAF table entry for each voltage by mult the value in each cell by the corresponding correction/100.
100 * (1/target_afr - 1/current_afr) * current_afr + 100
When the car is in closed loop the corrections logged by uprev seem to correspond with this calculated value but I did not crunch the data to see if they are exactly the same.
I then use this data to modify the MAF table entry for each voltage by mult the value in each cell by the corresponding correction/100.
The corrections column is a suggested MAF multiplier based on the ECU corrections (this allows the column to work even without OEM widebands) and does not include open loop data. So, for closed loop operation it could still be useful to older DE's.
The A/F column is populated with both closed and open loop data. So in open loop you have to do a little guess work to figure out the corrections but it's not rocket science. If I recall it was something like 1% per 0.1 A/F point. But that could vary depending on alot of things.
The A/F column is populated with both closed and open loop data. So in open loop you have to do a little guess work to figure out the corrections but it's not rocket science. If I recall it was something like 1% per 0.1 A/F point. But that could vary depending on alot of things.
Ah. Didn't know if you were using corrections or calculating the corrections yourself. The first version of my scripts used the corrections logged by uprev but I noticed that this was useless when the car went into open loop because the correction pegged at 100. So I redid the script calculating my own correction with the relation:
100 * (1/target_afr - 1/current_afr) * current_afr + 100
When the car is in closed loop the corrections logged by uprev seem to correspond with this calculated value but I did not crunch the data to see if they are exactly the same.
I then use this data to modify the MAF table entry for each voltage by mult the value in each cell by the corresponding correction/100.
100 * (1/target_afr - 1/current_afr) * current_afr + 100
When the car is in closed loop the corrections logged by uprev seem to correspond with this calculated value but I did not crunch the data to see if they are exactly the same.
I then use this data to modify the MAF table entry for each voltage by mult the value in each cell by the corresponding correction/100.
The A/F column is populated with both closed and open loop data. So in open loop you have to do a little guess work to figure out the corrections but it's not rocket science. If I recall it was something like 1% per 0.1 A/F point. But that could vary depending on alot of things.
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From: Rodenbach Germany
Ah. Didn't know if you were using corrections or calculating the corrections yourself. The first version of my scripts used the corrections logged by uprev but I noticed that this was useless when the car went into open loop because the correction pegged at 100. So I redid the script calculating my own correction with the relation:
100 * (1/target_afr - 1/current_afr) * current_afr + 100
When the car is in closed loop the corrections logged by uprev seem to correspond with this calculated value but I did not crunch the data to see if they are exactly the same.
I then use this data to modify the MAF table entry for each voltage by mult the value in each cell by the corresponding correction/100.
100 * (1/target_afr - 1/current_afr) * current_afr + 100
When the car is in closed loop the corrections logged by uprev seem to correspond with this calculated value but I did not crunch the data to see if they are exactly the same.
I then use this data to modify the MAF table entry for each voltage by mult the value in each cell by the corresponding correction/100.
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Joined: May 2011
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From: Rodenbach Germany
3904*102/100=3982 correct
also are you guys having trouble with the MAF table view... i cant scroll or anything to see the bottom of the table
thanks
Yes to the first part. Try resizing the maf table smaller. Been a while since I used things but I think when the virtual window is bigger than the desktop you see this sort of thing.
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From: Rodenbach Germany
maf table
got it in my computer settings my screen was set to 125% changed it to 100% works great
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