philthethrill

i have dual widebands. one in each art. the arts have the extenders already so what im saying is should i switch nb wb on the arts?

MatthewBouchard

iTrader: (2)

err.. The widebands are in the headers/exhaust manifolds while the narrowbands are in the cats. Do you have them switched? The extenders were what caused the problem for me.

philthethrill

i dont believe i have them switched , i just heard from the machine shop, i had a tuliped valve in cylinder three and a lot of scarring on my cylinders. also had a leak at passenger art pipe to header. codes where all for bank 1 also. cant wait to get it back together and see if its better. also i should see some more power

joeb1983

OP here. Phil you make any headway?..

I honestly haven't had time to even mess with the car. Life, deployments, etc... Its winter and its "put to bed" till spring.

My only question would be is; before my header install, I was running the oem manifolds, along with the Berk HFC's and Borla cat back with no issues at all...

Then the Stillen header install. On the way home after picking up the car I was throwing these codes.

However, I as well as Infiniti & Nissan CAN NOT detect an exhaust leak...

Is it primary o2 sensor location in the Stillens? Additional exhaust flow? Keep in mind I am fully FI tuned now and still have the exact issues when I was bolt on NA.

Nothing has changed with the narrow-bands as far as location in Berks built in extensions.

The only change was the header install...

I'm not doubting narrow band relocation fixed/fixes the issue, but why given the above?..

venture210

If the list of mods you gave is true, then you are most certainly running lean and the ECU can't compensate enough without a tune. Add fuel in small increments until your AFR's are in check. If needed, retard ignition timing slighty

joeb1983

(I am boosted and fully tuned)

Definitely not running lean due to the tune... The entire purpose of this thread is due to AFR's richening over time from the target AFR's (other than WOT) and that issue being temporarily corrected by clearing the learned fuel settings via my tuning software.
I've never encountered a lean condition. WOT is always fine given its WOT and idle and cruise are fine after clearing the learned fuel settings. Throw some miles on and I can watch my AFR's richen slowly as said miles increase.

Just the summary again for those even interested:

* Bought car 100% stock

* Berk HFC's & Boral cat-back (zero issues)

* Stillen intake, MREV2 & spacer (zero issues)

* Stillen header install (Throwing primary o2 sensor codes on the way home from the dealership after install)

* Took car back, they inspected for exhaust leaks and re-torqued everything. Cleared learned fuel settings and codes and sent me on my way.

* Codes came back, car went back, same thing.

* New primary OEM wide-bands installed.

* Codes came back.

* Dealership stumped; I start researching and find I might need a tune.

*** Z Fever in Tampa Florida tells me I need a tune and I need to re-calibrate the sensors to compensate for the additional exhaust flow ***

* Tune performed for $700 had VERY MINIMAL gains if any. I'm talking less than 10HP/TQ, but the sensors where "calibrated" and I wasn't popping codes any longer.

* Ran this "tune" for years. Never had the SES light come on.

* Made the decision to go FI.

* Tune performed at PRT performance in Texas.

*** Get home next day throwing same exact 2 codes ***

* Found out I failed to perform the "swirl jet mod" when installing the Walbro. Performed mod; back to PRT due to the lessened fuel pressure.

* Tune was adjusted/compensated.

*** When I inquired about the codes and giving him the back story I was informed I paid $700 to simply have those 2 codes disabled with UpRev way back in FL. and since I got a new tune, that disablement was now gone. ***

* Tuner told me it most likely was an exhaust leak.

* I perform a visual inspection as well as smoking the intake and exhaust and found not leaks.

* Car goes to Nissan. No leaks found either.

* been living with it since...

Again, I'm not doubting the relocation/placement of the narrow-bands can fix this issue, I'm just trying to wrap my head around it given I ran the berks without issue before the header install.

El Verdugo

Sucks when you get to the end of a thread and yet no remedy or resolution. Must still be with the same issues.

Blizzard25

If you're fine after clearing fuel settings, and it's happening over time, I'm going to guess it's your long term fuel corrections. Long terms are the average of your instantaneous corrections over a period of time (usually 15-30 minute intervals) and factor as an addition to your short term corrections. Meaning short terms + long terms = total correction.

So let's say your short terms are consistently averaging at 110% (just the first number i thought of). On initial flash, your long terms start out at 100% because it has no idea what the average correction value is. After a period of time of average around 110%, your long term value is now 110%. So your total correction value is 120% if your long term correction is 110% and at that specific point in time your short term correction is 110%. So while you might be okay after the learned fuel settings are cleared, once your long term fuel corrections have started factoring in you will be consistently richer or leaner than before (richer if your long terms are above 100, leaner if below 100).

If this is the case (which i'm not saying it definitely is, just an educated guess), then this is most definitely a tuning issue.

joeb1983

OP here. Old I know, but I am dealing with the same issue and trust me, nobody is as frustrated with this as I am.

I've read every thread out there regarding this issue usually always a dead end, so I feel your pain there.

Usually it's a crack in the cats or TP's or a related gasket.

I blew out my cats and now am running TP's with all new OEM gaskets; same s**t.

I promise if I ever find the solution, I will be sure and post.

I've had numerous tuners look at my ROM and all is well they say.

When I was NA I threw a cat back on. No issues.

Then threw some HFC's. No issues.

Then a MREV2 and spacer. No issues.

Then I picked up some Stillen headers, had the dealership install them and ON THE WAY HOME threw a check engine for bank 1 o2 sensor range/performance.

Shortly after, bank 2 as well.

Back to the dealership where the checked for leaks, re-tourqued and cleared the codes.

Again the light came in the next day driving to work. Back to the dealership which resulted in new o2 sensors.

Same issue again...

So I start emailing emaling tuners and Z-FEVER in Tampa, FL. replied.

I was headed to FL anyways, so I made an appointment for a UpRev tune.

Light never came back on again UNTIL I went FI and the tune was saved and flashed.

I can only assume Z-FEVER simply disable the codes from popping the light.

Now with aftermarket wide-bands installed, I can see bank 1 start to slowly richen and ping pong from target. i.e:

14.7 - 14.5
14.7 - 14.3
14.5 - 14.0
14.3 - 13.8 = light.

Clear learned fuel settings. 14.7 like magic.

Since CIPHER is no more, I don't see that option in the ROMeditor.

I can only assume this was going on before with the stock injectors.

Now I have ID 725's being boosted.

Could it be possible the sensors aren't happy where they are at behind the collector?

Or a header to head gasket?.. it's both banks, but bank 1 is the first and the worst.

Just blows my mind it started immediately after the header install and still does it after new TP's and gaskets, injectors, MAF, boost and new/real tune.

The Berks had extended bungs for the narrow bands and the TP's have j-bungs. I even ran a tune with the rears disabled. Same issue.

balaguru

iTrader: (2)

It's been a while since I've had to mess with the tune on my car but one possibility that occurs to me is that the O2 sensors might be in the wrong banks. I can see something like this happen in such a scenario.

Never mind. You never mentioned the other bank reading lean which is what you would expect if they were switched.

joeb1983

The primary oem widebands in the headers are definitely not swapped.

Same with the oem narrowbands in the tespipes/cats.

Never have I had a lean condition. It's always been straying richer from 14.7 during cruise and idle.

I'm tempted to throw the primaries in my aftermarket wide and bungs at the top of my testpipes and see if that effects anything. (If they will reach that is)

To be clear, this is an issue with my upper, primary sensors in the headers and not my lower, secondaries in the tespioes/cats.

iideadeyeii

iTrader: (6)

I've talked about this in another thread for someone having an AFR problem.

Can you adjust to a static tune?

My UTEC does not adjust fuel by itself and will only adjust timing with knock(if set)
I am not sure why more people don't go with the utec(aside from the fact that it is not produced anymore for the 350z)

joeb1983

Honestly, I’m not sure... I’ll have to ask my tuner about that.

Off topic: I did pick up UpRev’s ARC. Pretty bada$$. (2-step, rolling anti-lag and no-lift-shift)