karletto66

In referecence to this discussion of smooth and aggressive throttle response :
http://www.the370z.com/tuning/43384-...tle-uprev.html
Someone here have tried the same with 350z ?
I think that 350HR is very similar to 370 so i wanna o make similar mod using uprev Tuner but i need to know if some friends has already made that...

I tried to use "search" but i cannot find good references (maybe my fault, sorry...)
Thanks to all !

djamps

iTrader: (1)

Nobody around here that I know of has really messed with the throttle tables. Compared to a VHR, it's gotta be alot more simplistic without the VVEL stuff. I wonder if your modded table might be more effective without all the other stuff in play. I'll give it a shot assuming the data fits, I have a auto and manual DE to test with and take logs from.

karletto66

I'll try to discover better the mathematical algoritm used by 370 owner and to reproduce a table for my 350 HR (that is very similar to 370, not to 350DE)
I'll give a try quite for sure.
I want to have a WOT with low gear but no a too more sensitive throttle pedal, i don't like that....when i want more power i simply prefer to PUSH more the pedal...

karletto66

First try using the same "algoritm" but using max value of 3700 and medium of 2200 for "security" reasons...
350HR is very similar to 370 but just to be sure on first attempt i stay lower...

These are two pics of original values and smoothed ones...

djamps

iTrader: (1)

Do you know why it wouldn't work on a DE? Do you need to base these curves off the stock values?

cthrulies

Djamps, I was working on a new throttle map a while back. Since I have an automatic DE as well I was trying to "sync" my throttle map with the torque management map to get a better performance. I based my "revised" throttle map on the Uprev throttle map (the one you select in Osiris tuner). I noticed that a lot of dyno graphs had the most torque at 2500 rpm, 3250 rpm, 3850 rpm, 4500 rpm and 4800 rpm so I tried to mirror that in the throttle map. Its not perfect and still needs some tweaking but is an improvement on the low end -at least it feels that way to my butt dyno. Feel free to try it out. thanks.

karletto66

I don't know about DE, i remember somenthing about simple way to opening throttle full but maybe i'm wrong. This mod "CAN" works on all car if well made for me, no reason to be different. I don't know effect or interacton with AT cars, be warned.
I used a polynomial function of second order to obtain this values, starting with base values :
- STOCK values at 0%
- FIXED value (2200) at 50%
- FIXED value (3700) at 100%
The function is same like y=a*x^2+b*x+c

So in my table are 15 DIFFERENT functions (little but different!)
For every different rpm i derived the correct parameters (a,b,c) using these 3 numbers then "predicted" the others using function found and making an Excel table. X values are the known % flow, Y the NUMBER to be found.
Looks mathematical complicated but it's not so hard (afret some days for understanding)
If someone need i have one free software to do the most difficult thing (find the correct function to interpolate the 3 fixed number for every rpm), with this you can the use Excel and find all numbers.
Free software used is "Polynomial Curve Fit Program", POLYFIT.
Thanks to author !
Is the same way used by 370 owner of forum i wrote up, i only change little fixed values in a more "safe"way.

Still need to test the car for now !

karletto66

Today fist try of new map.
I can speak about defect in low speed running, city running and similar : i found NONE !

Two hours of run at low speed, in all gears, also with A/C on just to try: all simply perfect, no sputtering or strange behaviour.
Tried 2 or 3 WOT in 1-2 gear and car seems more "wild", ESP goes in very fast.
If you wanna try difference and enjoy full the power you have to take off ESP, i suspect that "stock" map is made in way to "accomodate" with ESP and avoid too much interaction. Forcing more opening of throttle cause more ESP showing.

Tried also a couple of WOT in 3 gear until 8000rpm, no problem at all.

I think that the difference is not big but someone more "sensible" of me in running can feel it for sure.

Anyway if someone want to try now i'm quite sure that mod is not "dangerous", every hopinion is very well accepted.

djamps

iTrader: (1)

Have any FI guys tried these mapping techniques?

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

we would all really need to map our own curves using the stock 0% values (unless the uprev tuned is all the same)

link to the software?

karletto66

Is this a question or a statement ?

I used the stock 0% value to have a smooth curve, if not i don't know in wich way interpolate the "starting" 15 polynomial equations (everyone needs 3 point)
Take in mind that this is only a test, based on the 370 forum work.


http://www.mathetica.com/software/POLYFIT.zip
Use it as written up, it calculates the curve using 3 points, then copy in Excel the formula and make a row for % of thottle.
I can send an example Excel , PM for that.

karletto66

I don't found anything in 350 forum, it's really strange...maybe my fault in search.
A lot of people using external device for doing that, also with uprev tune up.
I remember somenthig about having WOT for DE cars but i don't remember what...

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

have you logged APP vs TPS with your original map vs your 2200 map?

karletto66

No time for now.
I only tried this mod "at *** sensation" (we say in this way in Italy...)
And seems not bad...

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

i made an excel program using linest where you just put in the stock 0% values and then you desired 50% and 100% values.

That way you can quickly make any number of throttle maps you want based on 2nd order poly regression

This is my stock throttle map, as you can see its different than the other ones posted. Thats why its might be imprtant for you to create your own maops based on your own ROM files

karletto66

You have DE car, very different motor.
May be i dont' explain well : to derive the 15 DIFFERENT polynomial function i first use the ORIGINAL value at 0% and my fixed values at 50% and 100%. So i find the parameters of function. Then i copy the funcionts in EXCEL, make one row for every rpm and use it to calculate the right values of other cells. Maybe it's the same your way. The important thing is that the function is NOT one for all rows of rpm but 15 different (little but different i repeat).
Ths is the way used in 370 forum, i try with their stock and calculated values and matched their numbers, just to be sure.
But all of this is only "a theory", you can try and say what you feel and found.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

ya i know what you did. its very basic excel math

of course you have to find the equation for every rpm breakpoint.

*****I uploaded my table generator in post #20. It now allows direct copy of hex values into your Uprev ROM

I dont understand why the stock throttle tables are different between roms when we all use the same throttle body.....

karletto66

Nice work !
I'm not EXCEL expert so i had to use external tool but your worksheet is working good&fast ! Numbers are the same to mine.

I suppose that different throttle table is due to different air flow and reaction of engine to opening. Nissan wants to make car little too wild in low gear in IMHO, so change values to accomodate different power and adapt ESP work. But it's only IMHO, maybe i'm totally wrong...

karletto66

Formula to find correct romeditor value in a cell is :
=DEC.HEX(cellname+32768; 4)
If i don't made wrong...
So you can cup&copy all directly !

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

Seems that works!! Uprev told me when I called it was proprietary.

I will update my excel sheet to add that in

How'd you figure it out?