I was hoping to invest in a modest FI setup...something to put the car around 280-300rwhp...but if the experts say internals...I'm just gonna drop the idea entirely...too much $ for a stingy bastard like myself.

On a side note, has anyone had problems w/the stillen kit? I haven't seen any cases...but I'm sure they're out there.

 

If that's the case... mind explaining how Mike (mjedens) has already passed the 300rwhp NA???

 

What are his exact mods to get 300rwhp NA?

 

So what do you obviously knowledgeable tuners have to say about n20 and its effect on our engine?

 

Hmm...did I mentioned 8'something:1? I actually went with 9.0:1 on my car, and with the group-buy, the members could chose the compression ratio of your choice. At the end, the memebers chose a wide selection of CR's from 8.5:1 to 9.5:1


10psi with 9.0:1 will give you, roughly, 400-420whp....very safely with forged internals.

 

really? was this on a dynojet? dyno charts please.

 

wow, how depressing. I guess my G35 will remain normally aspirated. Hell, I don't even have bolt on's on my G, unless you count the Z-tube. Everything else is stock. Reason being, I was going to do the "all or nothing approach"..meaning forced induction with maybe exhaust. I guess it'll stay stock. I'll just use my other car for high HP fun. That sucks, I wanted a 350 rwhp G35. Oh well.

 

So how much are forged internals?

 

You can get a decent set of forged pistons/rods for about $2000 at the cheapest. Can go up from there. Up to $4-5000 on the high end. On the average, I would say about $5000 for parts and labor. Of course, while the engine is out, it would make good sense to use the opportunity to install other stuff....cams, header, flywheel, clutch,etc. It would substantially reduce the labor costs of these other installs, although your initial outlay of cash will be more. For instance, clutch/flywheel install can be an 8 hour job if done seperately, but will take 30 minutes with the engine already out.

 

The car is not maxed from the factory at all...people have just started the development work on it to see what it takes to make these motors sing, NA and FI. 300 hp NA is achievable...yes at a cost, but it is achievable on stock internals.

As for low end torque vs high rpm power, there is not really much that can be done about this...its the simple nature of the motor that's included. Put some cams in with little lift and loads of duration and watch that figure change drastically. Given the confines of the stock motor though, as well as gearing, this won't be a low end monster......but it's not intended to be either IMHO. My goals wth my own car were simple - take the stock powerband, which is totally usable for everyday, and exploit it.

Are forged internals the answer? For some, they are the only answer..for others, they are a complete and utter waste of funds IMHO. Nissan has blessed us with a good platofrm that responds reasonably well to even bolt on mods in NA form, and amazingly in FI guise. Is it expensive to make the power NA? Yep. Is it more expensive to do it via some form of forced induction....very often, the answer is yes again. However, they key to this car, or any other car is the tuning, not what turbo kit you pick, or what headers you select.

In terms of the M3, I am sorry but they are simply not fast cars at all.....much like ours are not fast from the factory. Quick - yes very. Beatlable? Absolutely

GQ - 3 cars is a very significant difference.....don't sell yourself short! As for not handling boost, I would 100% disagree....it is all about who does the tuning. now, I'd love to say I agree and sell loads and loads of forged internal packages to people, but is simply not the case. The motor is totally able to cope with a modest boost, provided the tuning is done skillfully However all too often people on this site, and many many others "think" they understand what they are doing, without actually knowing what they are doing....and that tends to lead to at best a car with a boat loads of mods that runs no better than stock or at worst, a broken motor in no time flat.

 

actually this car is very tuneable for an na engine. just being able to build up to and reliably support near 300whp on stock fuel, internals, and drivetrain is a remarkable feat for a 3.5l low revving motor.

there was a big contest last summer over who was gonna come out on top in na hp. several members have hit 280+ whp, and a few even got in teh 290-300 range. and only mjedens rebuilt his motor to get there.

this is a torquey motor not a high revving hp motor so try and focus on the area under the curve.

 

actually this car is very tuneable for an na engine. just being able to build up to and reliably support near 300whp on stock fuel, internals, and drivetrain is a remarkable feat for a 3.5l low revving motor.

there was a big contest last summer over who was gonna come out on top in na hp. several members have hit 280+ whp, and a few even got in teh 290-300 range. and only mjedens rebuilt his motor to get there.

this is a torquey motor not a high revving hp motor so try and focus on the area under the curve.

 

and mjedens didn't even really "do" anything special...he is still at stock CR, and only the heads received the real attention.....his setup is totally duplicatable (is that a word?) on an otherwise stock bottom end

 

Where do I begin...

Well, your most obvious venture into the land of moronville lies in the fact that you reference "The Fast and The Furious" in a post about the "right" way to tune a Z. Dude, it's a movie. This movie in particular shouldn't be used as an example to do ANYTHING the "right" way.

That aside, you really have no idea what you're talking about. My guess is that your past tuning experience is limited to an Autometer air/fuel light show gauge and an SAFC on an '94 civic

Any motor will withstand additional stress, even that of forced induction, based on the quality of the tuning it sees. An OEM 350Z motor is nowhere near the strength limit of it's internals...that is a truly ridiculous thought. You're telling me that the motor in a '92 non-vtec civic can withstand 5 psi but your '04 350Z just isn't strong enough?!? BS. The "budget" portion of the car as an effort to make it affordable, went into the interior/exterior quality of the car. Poor paint, cheap interior materials/plastics etc...were all sacraficed to make the car affordable but I can assure you that Nissan gave you a strong motor.


To sum up, you're just plain wrong. You don't have to throw $ at a project un-necessarily. You want all components in the car to work as a team which is totally dependant on how well it is tuned.

 

What exactly does mjedens have? what's the special thing that has him over 300 whp n/a? that's my goal - a 300 whp N/A daily driver - I just don't know how to get there...

Headers, Cams, and a reflash is next on the plate, but what else? Is the 350evo throttle body worth the trouble? What about porting/polishing the heads/lower intake? I'd like to hear people's advice on this subject, it's been dead for a while since the F/I craze has really consumed most of the Z/G crowd...

 

The Stillen exhaust may be what you are looking for...

 

big tomei cams, close to stock pistons (10.5:1), plenum, headers, test pipes, ECU, stillen exhaust. I think he is running under 300 right now, as his car has gone through several transformations. But I think that is what he was running when he hit 301 N/A on the Dyno (dynojet).

Oh and like GQ it is my unprofessional opinion (because I am not one) that this motor is not safe to boost at the levels people are trying. I dont think some of these Mickey mouse tuning solutions will hold this engine together. Now it can be done correctly, but it will take more effort than buying a s/c or turbo kit and using the included tuning solutions. Money will have to be spent to make it work right. I foresee many popped motors in the near future as the miles increase on these F/I cars.

 

The dyno. We all know dynos are different from one location to another and are different between type of dyno machine. There are some machines that produce numbers that are far higher than they should be. What matters is the difference between stock and mods.

Many of the So. Cal. group have obtained dynos from more than one location and from what I've seen, with max NA mods, the best output was about 270 rwhp. There were those two dynos done at Mossy with 310+ rwhp that we all discounted as being incorrect. From memory, I believe Richard did a redyno at another location and came in the 270 rwhp range as well.

If there were more Zs pulling 300+ rwhp with maxed out modifictions, I'd be more likely to believe it's possible. As it stands, I'm comfortable with my current understanding.

 

.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jrotaryb
[B]Where do I begin...

Well, your most obvious venture into the land of moronville lies in the fact that you reference "The Fast and The Furious" in a post about the "right" way to tune a Z. Dude, it's a movie. This movie in particular shouldn't be used as an example to do ANYTHING the "right" way.

That aside, you really have no idea what you're talking about. My guess is that your past tuning experience is limited to an Autometer air/fuel light show gauge and an SAFC on an '94 civic

I won't get into a pissing match.

Over 20 years, I have owned and tuned a Mustang from 175 to 400hp. Two Honda Preludes including one with a Jackson Supercharger, An Audi S4 into which I invested $40,000 in tuning and Mods, and now my new Z. I have also helped in the tuning of a 700hp Vette and 800hp Viper. How's that for tuning experience?