Greddy VQ35HR TT??!?
01-15-2008, 11:13 AM
#261
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^i'm pretty sure it won't be close to 2jz intrenals, considering there are 900+ whp stock bottom end supra's around
i'd be happy if it can do 500 reliably, and even that is overly optimistic
i'd be happy if it can do 500 reliably, and even that is overly optimistic
01-15-2008, 04:28 PM
#264
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Originally Posted by warmmilk
i was refering to a single turbo on a VQ, not any other engine. i know supras make stupid power on singles with a decent power band (depending on the size of the turbo). and the supra gets better (typically) spool on a single cause its an inline 6, so the manifold can be made equal length (and balanced pressure from runner to runner). no need to get violent here, most supra owners would agree with me that a tt set up makes more sense on a vq than a single set up
on the 600whp range a TT will spool way faster than any single turbo but as you keep going in size with twins it is not going to spool that much different than a large single turbo will...
The VQ is much better than the 2jZ on the inline siz cause it have higher displacement adn way better heads.... what you gotta consider is that the supra has way more engine space to put a twins rather than a big single turbo. If you look at the powerband of the 350z with a 76S and compare it to a supra with same turbo and same psi and the 350z will outperform it...
Originally Posted by warmmilk
the reason i said ur still limited to but one turbo is cause of how short the power band is, it takes forever to spool up cause of the exhaust configurtion, and the power falls off pretty quickly cause of the exhause configuration again. a single on a vq makes for allot of exhaust back pressure making it difficult to get a wide powerband unless ur in the low end of power (350-400ish whp). and unless all u wanna do is drag race, there is alot more to a car then peak power. i prefer wide power bands, but if a short peaky power band is ur thing, then go ahead and blow 11k on a single turbo set up.
check
Originally Posted by IntenseFab
Back on topic: Well Somewhat...
Before we begin building this engine I snapped a few pictures for you all. We're using the information we've gathered from our engine building programs that have supported upwards of 1500whp in our Drag Supra, and many other customer vehicles!
This is what will be used in Jorge's motor build and now it's up to PowerLab for the performance aspect of it. We might be using a turbo similar to what we've tested on our G35 or maybe something bigger
That's yet to come and once it's all finalized I'm sure Jorge will be pleased to share it with you all...
Specs:
- Intense Motorsports Custom H-Beam Chromoly rod rated to 300HP & 9000RPM Each
- Intense Motorsports 8.5:1 Heavy Deck Low Ring Land w/ HD Wrist Pin (Same design used in our supras)
- Intense Motorsports Billet Mains
- Intense Motorsports Girdle
- Supertech Double Valve Springs
- Supertech Nitride coated Stainless Intake Valves
- Supertech Inconel Exhaust Valves
- Supertech Titanium Retainers
- Intense Motorsports Prep'd head
- Tomei 280 Cams
- Darton Sleeves
- ARP Hardware
- HKS Headgaskets
Before we begin building this engine I snapped a few pictures for you all. We're using the information we've gathered from our engine building programs that have supported upwards of 1500whp in our Drag Supra, and many other customer vehicles!
This is what will be used in Jorge's motor build and now it's up to PowerLab for the performance aspect of it. We might be using a turbo similar to what we've tested on our G35 or maybe something bigger
That's yet to come and once it's all finalized I'm sure Jorge will be pleased to share it with you all... Specs:
- Intense Motorsports Custom H-Beam Chromoly rod rated to 300HP & 9000RPM Each
- Intense Motorsports 8.5:1 Heavy Deck Low Ring Land w/ HD Wrist Pin (Same design used in our supras)
- Intense Motorsports Billet Mains
- Intense Motorsports Girdle
- Supertech Double Valve Springs
- Supertech Nitride coated Stainless Intake Valves
- Supertech Inconel Exhaust Valves
- Supertech Titanium Retainers
- Intense Motorsports Prep'd head
- Tomei 280 Cams
- Darton Sleeves
- ARP Hardware
- HKS Headgaskets
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 01-15-2008 at 04:33 PM.
01-15-2008, 04:47 PM
#265
Originally Posted by warmmilk
based on what i've seen on single kits at that power level on the vq's so far, that would be a pretty peaky power band. and for that power, u'd have to build the engine, which comes out to be alot more than 11k. and by the time ur engine would be built and ready to go into ur car, chances are, some of the tt kits would be on the market already, also capable of the same power, but with much better spool and wider power band and probably at a lower psi
i was refering to a single turbo on a VQ, not any other engine. i know supras make stupid power on singles with a decent power band (depending on the size of the turbo). and the supra gets better (typically) spool on a single cause its an inline 6, so the manifold can be made equal length (and balanced pressure from runner to runner). no need to get violent here, most supra owners would agree with me that a tt set up makes more sense on a vq than a single set up
the reason i said ur still limited to but one turbo is cause of how short the power band is, it takes forever to spool up cause of the exhaust configurtion, and the power falls off pretty quickly cause of the exhause configuration again. a single on a vq makes for allot of exhaust back pressure making it difficult to get a wide powerband unless ur in the low end of power (350-400ish whp). and unless all u wanna do is drag race, there is alot more to a car then peak power. i prefer wide power bands, but if a short peaky power band is ur thing, then go ahead and blow 11k on a single turbo set up.
i'm not trying to talk anyone out of buying this, just stating my opinion that its not worth it, especially considering that the guy asking about this as thinking of taking out a loan to do this. it'd be a much better idea to wait till the greddy or gtm kit comes out and save the money till then so that u don't have to get into any debt.
+ see peak350's post, he also makes a very valid point
i was refering to a single turbo on a VQ, not any other engine. i know supras make stupid power on singles with a decent power band (depending on the size of the turbo). and the supra gets better (typically) spool on a single cause its an inline 6, so the manifold can be made equal length (and balanced pressure from runner to runner). no need to get violent here, most supra owners would agree with me that a tt set up makes more sense on a vq than a single set up
the reason i said ur still limited to but one turbo is cause of how short the power band is, it takes forever to spool up cause of the exhaust configurtion, and the power falls off pretty quickly cause of the exhause configuration again. a single on a vq makes for allot of exhaust back pressure making it difficult to get a wide powerband unless ur in the low end of power (350-400ish whp). and unless all u wanna do is drag race, there is alot more to a car then peak power. i prefer wide power bands, but if a short peaky power band is ur thing, then go ahead and blow 11k on a single turbo set up.
i'm not trying to talk anyone out of buying this, just stating my opinion that its not worth it, especially considering that the guy asking about this as thinking of taking out a loan to do this. it'd be a much better idea to wait till the greddy or gtm kit comes out and save the money till then so that u don't have to get into any debt.
+ see peak350's post, he also makes a very valid point
As IIQuickSilverII already pointed out, your assumptions about spool and powerband versus a Supra are wrong for the reasons he stated. Also, the VQ has variable cam timing in addition to the larger displacement and better flowing heads. ^Look at the difference in the dyno graph between the G and the Supra!!!
Granted... the PowerLab kit is for the DE motor, not the HR. I agree that the dual intake setup of the HR makes a good single turbo kit more complicated and difficult to achieve.
However, I took issue with your statement that a single turbo is a limiting factor on the VQ motor. My frequent visits to Intense Motorsports have given me experience and info about the PowerLab kit that contradicts the assertions you're making. And I still think that a lot of Supra guys would be offended or laugh at you for your comment. Afterall, Intense was a well known Supra shop long before they got into the VQ platform.
Last edited by RudeG_v2.0; 01-15-2008 at 06:59 PM.
01-15-2008, 05:05 PM
#266
my race shop is in with somebody high up at greddy. and he was talking to his friend there at greddy and thats what he said the kit would be pre tuned at. thats what they pre tuned there z at when it was on show at sema. and if you look at the picture from sema you will see that there is an after market clutch and flywheel. that clutch and flywheel is made by os giken over in japan.
and yesterday the guy from greddy called the race shop i go to and they also told him that the kit is being pushed back to august now. originally it was supposed to come out this month but owell.
and yesterday the guy from greddy called the race shop i go to and they also told him that the kit is being pushed back to august now. originally it was supposed to come out this month but owell.
01-15-2008, 06:45 PM
#267
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Im not sure if anyone mentioned this already but i emailed Turbonetics a few days ago regarding a kit for the HR.
This is what was sent back to me.
"We don't have a complete ready to bolt on kit for that vehicle. I can however supply you with the a universal blow off valve, a universal waste gate, a universal turbo, and a intercooler built based on your sizing but we can not supply you with any of the hardware, piping, brackets, turbo manifolds, fuel parts, ignition parts and the engine managements you would have to get that on your own. As of now we don’t have any forecast if a kit will ever be available for that vehicle"
Ed Mendez
Sales / Tech
Turbonetics Inc.
2255 Agate Court
Simi Valley, Ca 93065
Ph: 805-426-3420
Fax: 805-584-1913
It will definitely be nice to see what Greddy or JWT will come out with..
This is what was sent back to me.
"We don't have a complete ready to bolt on kit for that vehicle. I can however supply you with the a universal blow off valve, a universal waste gate, a universal turbo, and a intercooler built based on your sizing but we can not supply you with any of the hardware, piping, brackets, turbo manifolds, fuel parts, ignition parts and the engine managements you would have to get that on your own. As of now we don’t have any forecast if a kit will ever be available for that vehicle"
Ed Mendez
Sales / Tech
Turbonetics Inc.
2255 Agate Court
Simi Valley, Ca 93065
Ph: 805-426-3420
Fax: 805-584-1913
It will definitely be nice to see what Greddy or JWT will come out with..
Last edited by ncparamedic; 01-15-2008 at 06:47 PM.
01-15-2008, 07:06 PM
#268
Originally Posted by ncparamedic
Im not sure if anyone mentioned this already but i emailed Turbonetics a few days ago regarding a kit for the HR.
This is what was sent back to me.
"We don't have a complete ready to bolt on kit for that vehicle. I can however supply you with the a universal blow off valve, a universal waste gate, a universal turbo, and a intercooler built based on your sizing but we can not supply you with any of the hardware, piping, brackets, turbo manifolds, fuel parts, ignition parts and the engine managements you would have to get that on your own. As of now we don’t have any forecast if a kit will ever be available for that vehicle"
Ed Mendez
Sales / Tech
Turbonetics Inc.
2255 Agate Court
Simi Valley, Ca 93065
Ph: 805-426-3420
Fax: 805-584-1913
It will definitely be nice to see what Greddy or JWT will come out with..
This is what was sent back to me.
"We don't have a complete ready to bolt on kit for that vehicle. I can however supply you with the a universal blow off valve, a universal waste gate, a universal turbo, and a intercooler built based on your sizing but we can not supply you with any of the hardware, piping, brackets, turbo manifolds, fuel parts, ignition parts and the engine managements you would have to get that on your own. As of now we don’t have any forecast if a kit will ever be available for that vehicle"
Ed Mendez
Sales / Tech
Turbonetics Inc.
2255 Agate Court
Simi Valley, Ca 93065
Ph: 805-426-3420
Fax: 805-584-1913
It will definitely be nice to see what Greddy or JWT will come out with..
01-15-2008, 07:23 PM
#269
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to all the people jumping on me about the the 2jz vs the vq, i wasn't comparing the 2 to each other, i was just refer to each platform individually, the only reason i mentioned the supra is cause the other guy started talking about it. i know it sounded like i'm comparing the 2 directly, and thats my mistake. i was merely saying that on an inline set up a single will spool better than a twin set up. if twins spool better then how come the only known high power twin set up is KenHenderson's car? but on a v6 set a tt set up would spool better than a single.
and yes, i've seen the powerlab set ups? the spool on it isn't that great on it, a tt kit capable of the same power would have a better power band. and the dyno's being plotted on mph instead of rpm make it a bit harder to see the power band
i'm not trying to **** anybody off or take away from powerlab's achievements, just stating that a tt kit on a vq will provide u with a fatter power band for the given "max" power
and yes, i've seen the powerlab set ups? the spool on it isn't that great on it, a tt kit capable of the same power would have a better power band. and the dyno's being plotted on mph instead of rpm make it a bit harder to see the power band
i'm not trying to **** anybody off or take away from powerlab's achievements, just stating that a tt kit on a vq will provide u with a fatter power band for the given "max" power
01-15-2008, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 350Zimo
that thing makes me want to sell it
01-17-2008, 12:00 PM
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One of the projects that I was working on was an RB26 stroked to 2.8L, with the goal of an extremely responsive car. The goal was between 600-650 whp.
I assumed running a single turbo would be the way to go and since it seems like running all of the exhaust gas through one turbo instead of splitting it up makes sense for good spool time and big power. Also, all of the "big dogs" go single turbo.
However, I spoke for a while on the phone with one of the people from garrett and they said this is not the case. Here is what they said about twin turbos:
-They will spool up quicker than a single turbo and be able to make the same peak HP
-There is less exhaust turbulence with twins as you can take advantage of exhaust pulses that compliment one another.
-Twins last longer as they do not have to spin as fast as a single and are responsible for moving half instead of all of the air.
He said that one of the main reasons that people go with the big singles is that it is a less complex system to work on and costs less to produce the same peak power since you only have to buy one turbo and you can buy simpler IC, IC piping, oil/coolant lines.
Basically you can make the same peak power on either setup, and it is cheaper to buy and easier to install a single turbo; but a twin turbo setup provides faster spool, more transient power, and lasts longer.
I assumed running a single turbo would be the way to go and since it seems like running all of the exhaust gas through one turbo instead of splitting it up makes sense for good spool time and big power. Also, all of the "big dogs" go single turbo.
However, I spoke for a while on the phone with one of the people from garrett and they said this is not the case. Here is what they said about twin turbos:
-They will spool up quicker than a single turbo and be able to make the same peak HP
-There is less exhaust turbulence with twins as you can take advantage of exhaust pulses that compliment one another.
-Twins last longer as they do not have to spin as fast as a single and are responsible for moving half instead of all of the air.
He said that one of the main reasons that people go with the big singles is that it is a less complex system to work on and costs less to produce the same peak power since you only have to buy one turbo and you can buy simpler IC, IC piping, oil/coolant lines.
Basically you can make the same peak power on either setup, and it is cheaper to buy and easier to install a single turbo; but a twin turbo setup provides faster spool, more transient power, and lasts longer.
01-17-2008, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RudeG_v2.0
^ Cuz he wants to sell two turbos instead of one!
all of the supra guys that do no budget track (road race, not drag) car builds use a single turbo because it provides faster spool and therefore a broader powerband. go check out the road racing forum on supraforums and look at the set ups, it's either the stock twins or a single
01-18-2008, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by warmmilk
on a v6 set a tt set up would spool better than a single...
... a tt kit capable of the same power would have a better power band. and the dyno's being plotted on mph instead of rpm make it a bit harder to see the power band
i'm not trying to **** anybody off or take away from powerlab's achievements, just stating that a tt kit on a vq will provide u with a fatter power band for the given "max" power
... a tt kit capable of the same power would have a better power band. and the dyno's being plotted on mph instead of rpm make it a bit harder to see the power band
i'm not trying to **** anybody off or take away from powerlab's achievements, just stating that a tt kit on a vq will provide u with a fatter power band for the given "max" power
01-18-2008, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by brs2c
Are you now changing your stance on this statement? Or, are you saying that becuase the 6 cylinders are in the shape of a V(Z) instead of being inline (supra) that this changes everything and then the twins are better?
The closer the turbo is to the exhaust port (within reason) the better, you get higher exhaust temperature = higher pressure = more power on the turbine. All that means better spool.
On a V6 you can't get a single close to all 6 cylinders so you go twin and build with smaller turbos.
Some singles have a split manifold though, much more advanced than this discussion....
01-18-2008, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by brs2c
Are you now changing your stance on this statement? Or, are you saying that becuase the 6 cylinders are in the shape of a V(Z) instead of being inline (supra) that this changes everything and then the twins are better?
and for the second part of ur question, see peak350's response right above this post
01-18-2008, 10:17 AM
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Peak 350- Interesting thoughts and it makes sense, I wonder how much a good heat wrapping would do for the singles. Oh, and the twin scroll manifolds/turbos ARE AMAZING (we put one on my buds evo, much more transient response).
Warmmilk- I hope you didn't take my previous post as rude, you always have good posts and I was just asking.
Warmmilk- I hope you didn't take my previous post as rude, you always have good posts and I was just asking.
01-18-2008, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by brs2c
Peak 350- Interesting thoughts and it makes sense, I wonder how much a good heat wrapping would do for the singles. Oh, and the twin scroll manifolds/turbos ARE AMAZING (we put one on my buds evo, much more transient response).
Warmmilk- I hope you didn't take my previous post as rude, you always have good posts and I was just asking.
Warmmilk- I hope you didn't take my previous post as rude, you always have good posts and I was just asking.
+1 to what quick said about the singles.
01-18-2008, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by bboypuertoroc
Full Race? ****ing AWESOME. Twin scroll OWNS (but just not for top end).
+1 to what quick said about the singles.
+1 to what quick said about the singles.