VQ35DE vs VQ35HR
02-09-2008, 08:04 PM
#21
Originally Posted by gsingh350Z
Negative. Even if a DE engine had $4,000 worth of bolt-ons, the HR would still be quicker. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh to the DE owners, but it's the truth.
I've only went to the track 2 times in my life, and I've already managed somehow with my novice driving to grab a 13.7 timeslip...
I've only went to the track 2 times in my life, and I've already managed somehow with my novice driving to grab a 13.7 timeslip...
This is not true. Two of my friend which are members on this forum raced on PCH from a roll to see which cars was faster. I tailed behind them in my turbo Z.
One friend had an auto '04 on 20's and the other had a relatively brand new '06 Rev-up MT. They were neck and neck and the '04 might have actually pulled a little bit infront.
If the non-revup had $4,000 worth of bolt ons, the HR would still go down. The HR doesn't make THAT much more power. Come-on now, let's be sensible, here.
If I remember correctly, the older DE's make more torque and I believe weigh less overall than the newer cars.
DE's are still kicking *** after all this time.
02-09-2008, 08:09 PM
#22
Originally Posted by nismo53E
but you're forgetting the point. HR vs. DE = DE fail.
All that extra stuff done to the car [HR] and the car can't even shave a second or more off the DE's times from normal drivers?
If you ask me, the HR's fail. Aren't the HR's the one with the oil consumption problems also?
02-09-2008, 08:13 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by Blu_Blur
Aren't the HR's the one with the oil consumption problems also?
02-09-2008, 08:15 PM
#24
Originally Posted by gsingh350Z
^^
Ok. Fine. I'm not argue over something like that.
I just wanted to get my point across that the HR is considerably faster than the previous generation DE engines. The car is apparently half a second faster than previous models...I don't know about you, but I consider that a major upgrade for the 07, considering it retails the same as previous models.
Ok. Fine. I'm not argue over something like that.
I just wanted to get my point across that the HR is considerably faster than the previous generation DE engines. The car is apparently half a second faster than previous models...I don't know about you, but I consider that a major upgrade for the 07, considering it retails the same as previous models.
IMO, that isn't considerably faster and this is only on drag racing. If you were to put these two differnet Z's on a road course, the lighter and torque'er DE's will more than likely win the day. That's why I hate drag-racing- it doesn't take into account all of the car's attributes.
02-09-2008, 08:31 PM
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There is nothing wrong with the DE, and it does respond well to mods, but the HR is just a much better starting point na.
I ran a 13.01 with my 04, with DR's, JWT intake, Helix TP's, Nismo FW and Borla TD's. I bought the Borla TD used, for $400, the TP's were $159, Intake $89, FW $400, DR's $325, FD wheels for DR's, $200. That is far less than $4,000. My goal was a 12.9, and I came very close, but got rid of the 04 before reaching it. My highest trap was between 105+.
The stock 07 feels much faster, and is from what I have observed, as my 07 has trapped as high as 107.19, with a 10 mph headwind, at one of the better tracks in the area. My 04 never trapped over 104+ at that same track. My 07 has a current best of 13.198, which was run at a track that I haven't run my best times at, and is known for lower traps. I am pretty confident that I will reach a 13.0, and hopefully a 12.9, at one of the better tracks, and will not be surprised if the car traps at over 108. It also has been getting faster with miles, and I am now over 26,700 miles.
People need to remember that the HR is also rated under the newer SAE rating system, which would put the power up noticably higher using the old system. The HR also makes very good torque, and has a very flat and usable band, with 90% coming in by 2K rpms. The hp power picks up very strongly, right to the redline as well.
The only reason my 04 ran a quicker time than my 07, was due to MT DR's, and until recently, I had the clutch slave cylinder handicap, which meant I had to launch very easy. Now that I can launch harder, it will be easier to improve my times.
If you go by trap speed, the HR's, and the fact that my 07 is heavier by around 90 lbs, than my 04, there is no doubt it is making more power. Give the same traction to both vehicles, and the 07 will win every time, unless the loss is driver related.
I ran a 13.01 with my 04, with DR's, JWT intake, Helix TP's, Nismo FW and Borla TD's. I bought the Borla TD used, for $400, the TP's were $159, Intake $89, FW $400, DR's $325, FD wheels for DR's, $200. That is far less than $4,000. My goal was a 12.9, and I came very close, but got rid of the 04 before reaching it. My highest trap was between 105+.
The stock 07 feels much faster, and is from what I have observed, as my 07 has trapped as high as 107.19, with a 10 mph headwind, at one of the better tracks in the area. My 04 never trapped over 104+ at that same track. My 07 has a current best of 13.198, which was run at a track that I haven't run my best times at, and is known for lower traps. I am pretty confident that I will reach a 13.0, and hopefully a 12.9, at one of the better tracks, and will not be surprised if the car traps at over 108. It also has been getting faster with miles, and I am now over 26,700 miles.
People need to remember that the HR is also rated under the newer SAE rating system, which would put the power up noticably higher using the old system. The HR also makes very good torque, and has a very flat and usable band, with 90% coming in by 2K rpms. The hp power picks up very strongly, right to the redline as well.
The only reason my 04 ran a quicker time than my 07, was due to MT DR's, and until recently, I had the clutch slave cylinder handicap, which meant I had to launch very easy. Now that I can launch harder, it will be easier to improve my times.
If you go by trap speed, the HR's, and the fact that my 07 is heavier by around 90 lbs, than my 04, there is no doubt it is making more power. Give the same traction to both vehicles, and the 07 will win every time, unless the loss is driver related.
Last edited by VeeTec; 02-09-2008 at 08:34 PM.
02-09-2008, 08:36 PM
#28
Originally Posted by VeeTec
There is nothing wrong with the DE, and it does respond well to mods, but the HR is just a much better starting point na.
I ran a 13.01 with my 04, with DR's, JWT intake, Helix TP's, Nismo FW and Borla TD's. I bought the Borla TD used, for $400, the TP's were $159, Intake $89, FW $400, DR's $325, FD wheels for DR's, $200. That is far less than $4,000. My goal was a 12.9, and I came very close, but got rid of the 04 before reaching it. My highest trap was between 105+.
The stock 07 feels much faster, and is from what I have observed, as my 07 has trapped as high as 107.19, with a 10 mph headwind, at one of the better tracks in the area. My 04 never trapped over 104+ at that same track. My 07 has a current best of 13.198, which was run at a track that I haven't run my best times at, and is known for lower traps. I am pretty confident that I will reach a 13.0, and hopefully a 12.9, at one of the better tracks, and will not be surprised if the car traps at over 108. It also has been getting faster with miles, and I am now over 26,700 miles.
People need to remember that the HR is also rated under the newer SAE rating system, which would put the power up noticably higher using the old system. The HR also makes very good torque, and has a very flat and usable band, with 90% coming in by 2K rpms. The hp power picks up very strongly, right to the redline as well.
The only reason my 04 ran a quicker time than my 07, was due to MT DR's, and until recently, I had the clutch slave cylinder handicap, which meant I had to launch very easy. Now that I can launch harder, it will be easier to improve my times.
If you go by trap speed, the HR's, and the fact that my 07 is heavier by around 90 lbs, than my 04, there is no doubt it is making more power. Give the same traction to both vehicles, and the 07 will win every time, unless the loss is driver related.
I ran a 13.01 with my 04, with DR's, JWT intake, Helix TP's, Nismo FW and Borla TD's. I bought the Borla TD used, for $400, the TP's were $159, Intake $89, FW $400, DR's $325, FD wheels for DR's, $200. That is far less than $4,000. My goal was a 12.9, and I came very close, but got rid of the 04 before reaching it. My highest trap was between 105+.
The stock 07 feels much faster, and is from what I have observed, as my 07 has trapped as high as 107.19, with a 10 mph headwind, at one of the better tracks in the area. My 04 never trapped over 104+ at that same track. My 07 has a current best of 13.198, which was run at a track that I haven't run my best times at, and is known for lower traps. I am pretty confident that I will reach a 13.0, and hopefully a 12.9, at one of the better tracks, and will not be surprised if the car traps at over 108. It also has been getting faster with miles, and I am now over 26,700 miles.
People need to remember that the HR is also rated under the newer SAE rating system, which would put the power up noticably higher using the old system. The HR also makes very good torque, and has a very flat and usable band, with 90% coming in by 2K rpms. The hp power picks up very strongly, right to the redline as well.
The only reason my 04 ran a quicker time than my 07, was due to MT DR's, and until recently, I had the clutch slave cylinder handicap, which meant I had to launch very easy. Now that I can launch harder, it will be easier to improve my times.
If you go by trap speed, the HR's, and the fact that my 07 is heavier by around 90 lbs, than my 04, there is no doubt it is making more power. Give the same traction to both vehicles, and the 07 will win every time, unless the loss is driver related.
all hail the leader of the HR army! he has spoken.
02-10-2008, 12:42 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by Blu_Blur
This is not true. Two of my friend which are members on this forum raced on PCH from a roll to see which cars was faster. I tailed behind them in my turbo Z.
One friend had an auto '04 on 20's and the other had a relatively brand new '06 Rev-up MT. They were neck and neck and the '04 might have actually pulled a little bit infront.
If the non-revup had $4,000 worth of bolt ons, the HR would still go down. The HR doesn't make THAT much more power. Come-on now, let's be sensible, here.
If I remember correctly, the older DE's make more torque and I believe weigh less overall than the newer cars.
DE's are still kicking *** after all this time.
One friend had an auto '04 on 20's and the other had a relatively brand new '06 Rev-up MT. They were neck and neck and the '04 might have actually pulled a little bit infront.
If the non-revup had $4,000 worth of bolt ons, the HR would still go down. The HR doesn't make THAT much more power. Come-on now, let's be sensible, here.
If I remember correctly, the older DE's make more torque and I believe weigh less overall than the newer cars.
DE's are still kicking *** after all this time.
btw why would you bring up an 06 REV-up? That has a VQ35DE(DE, DE.) The 07 and up have the HR.. great comparison. BTW your friends with the 04 and 20s AUTOMATIC vs the MANUAL 06 and were neck and neck.. Pathetic. 20s FTL. the manual should've walked it.
Too many mis-informed members....
02-10-2008, 01:46 AM
#32
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this is a really sad thread. the HR's have dyno'd undeniably higher stock numbers AND make power to redline or well past the 6650 redline of yesteryear(DE). i have a DE and i recognize the the Hr is a better motor. not to mention, with the bed plate design and stronger internals it will be able to make a deal more power stock internals with boost
02-10-2008, 01:57 AM
#33
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Yeah I didnt mean to turn this into a flame war, I just waned to get some straight facts, and some background from both owners...
I was wondering does the HR also hold power all the way to redline? I drove an 04 and it seemed like after 5800rpms or so it kinda lost breath, like it was boosted...
-Aaron
I was wondering does the HR also hold power all the way to redline? I drove an 04 and it seemed like after 5800rpms or so it kinda lost breath, like it was boosted...
-Aaron
02-10-2008, 06:28 AM
#34
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I starts to wain off above 7k a bit. The engine feels like it runs out of breath at about 7200-7300 RPM's. I've wondered if this is a consequence of the exhaust not flowing enough, or the throttle bodies closing early as some had reported.
Its still faster to run to redline, but it does lose a bit of power right up top.
Its still faster to run to redline, but it does lose a bit of power right up top.
02-10-2008, 07:12 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by toples z
i had read up that the reason, Nissan went with the dual intake was due to more air flow to the motor and it is more fuel efficient. As for mods the HR puts down more power then De. I read some where on the forum that there is a new Reflush coming out for the HR that will supposedly give huge low to mid range gains. To conclude i think that it is harder to make high gains on the HR from simple boltons, because the car was in production for a long time now and Nissan tried to perfect on the car as much as possible. thus Hr owners will not benefit from intakes, headers.
02-10-2008, 09:38 AM
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i would have to disagree that the HR would be able to make more power on stock motor (FI). Even thought the HR (Stock internals) are stronger and better the compression is higher. I guess we will have to wait untill the TT kit is out for the HR to see the reall thing.
Last edited by toples z; 02-10-2008 at 09:41 AM.
02-10-2008, 09:44 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by gsingh350Z
And those DE times were done by novice drivers? Negative ghost rider.
The best stock time for the DE is shown to be 13.6. The best stock time for HR, considering it's only been out for one year vs. the DE which has been out for over 4 years, is 13.1 .
The best stock time for the DE is shown to be 13.6. The best stock time for HR, considering it's only been out for one year vs. the DE which has been out for over 4 years, is 13.1 .
Also don't forget that the bolt-on DE times were also not on street tires, and the stock HR times were. Now throw some slicks on a stock HR with someone who knows how to drive and get a 1.6-1.7 60' with a low DA and watch it hit the mid 12's. Add a Bassani exhaust /w K&N drop-in filters and drop another .1-.2 (if those numbers ever get confirmed). I see the potential to run 12.4-12.6 with nothing more than slicks, a new clutch (for the slicks), K&N drop-ins, and that exhaust on the HR. The only bolt-on DE to match/beat that has full bolt-ons and a built block.
I guess we'll see soon enough since more and more HR's are getting out there.
02-10-2008, 10:17 AM
#38
Originally Posted by itsjiggajames
damn. a little fanboy of the DE? All good..
btw why would you bring up an 06 REV-up? That has a VQ35DE(DE, DE.) The 07 and up have the HR.. great comparison. BTW your friends with the 04 and 20s AUTOMATIC vs the MANUAL 06 and were neck and neck.. Pathetic. 20s FTL. the manual should've walked it.
Too many mis-informed members....
btw why would you bring up an 06 REV-up? That has a VQ35DE(DE, DE.) The 07 and up have the HR.. great comparison. BTW your friends with the 04 and 20s AUTOMATIC vs the MANUAL 06 and were neck and neck.. Pathetic. 20s FTL. the manual should've walked it.
Too many mis-informed members....
Yes, I agree on how the guy with an automatic car with 20 Fooses kept up with a MT on stock rims (he has that weird Interlagos Fire colored Z) but I was there when it happened and it was easy for me to keep pace with them since I am FI'd.
Anyways, I looked-up the specs on the HR and what not and as I said on another post, it isn't that much of an improvement considering the loss of torque which would really shine on a track through the turns added to the fact that the DE cars are over 100 pounds lighter.
Also, I don't think I would buy an HR with that kind of hood either.
02-10-2008, 10:38 AM
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I love the Z for what it is whether it be a DE or HR, but to face facts, there is a small advantage both with the HR stock for stock vs DE and modded HR vs a modded DE. It still would be a drivers race from a dig with the advantages being so small, unless we are talking about a highway run where driver skill is less of a factor. Only on the highway can I say with confidence that the HR will edge out the DE 99% of the time.
02-10-2008, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Blu_Blur
Yeah yeah. I thought about this post last night and said to myself *wait a minute! The rev-up is a different motor than the HR! OH SNAP!*. I get the Rev-up and the HR confused so I apologise about that.
Yes, I agree on how the guy with an automatic car with 20 Fooses kept up with a MT on stock rims (he has that weird Interlagos Fire colored Z) but I was there when it happened and it was easy for me to keep pace with them since I am FI'd.
Anyways, I looked-up the specs on the HR and what not and as I said on another post, it isn't that much of an improvement considering the loss of torque which would really shine on a track through the turns added to the fact that the DE cars are over 100 pounds lighter.
Also, I don't think I would buy an HR with that kind of hood either.
Yes, I agree on how the guy with an automatic car with 20 Fooses kept up with a MT on stock rims (he has that weird Interlagos Fire colored Z) but I was there when it happened and it was easy for me to keep pace with them since I am FI'd.
Anyways, I looked-up the specs on the HR and what not and as I said on another post, it isn't that much of an improvement considering the loss of torque which would really shine on a track through the turns added to the fact that the DE cars are over 100 pounds lighter.
Also, I don't think I would buy an HR with that kind of hood either.
