VQ35DE vs VQ35HR
02-11-2008, 08:36 PM
#141
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Originally Posted by 2007-Z
I read your post and I even just read it again. It still sounds as if you're trying to argue the point, which is why I posted what I did. If I misunderstood, my bad.
I don't argue with everyone, only some of people who are wrong, who are asses, or who take a stab at me (if I argued with everyone on here in those categories I'd never have time to sleep). I started requiring proof of things because of all the idiots who make posts contrary to the facts and the only proof they provide is, "because I say so". "This car is faster because I say so". "This engine is better because I say so". Blah, blah, blah... Cry me a river.
This is the first car forum I've ever been involved with that had so many hateful *******s. I guess it's starting to rub off on me... You don't see this kind of bickering at the Mustang, Vette, Viper, etc.. forums. A little, yes, but not on every post in every forum like in here. For the most part they all stick together and bash people with other types of cars. But people here seem to stick up for people with other cars and bash the people with the same cars. WTF?! It's like a royal rumble. Maybe I'll go back to just reading and not posting.
I don't argue with everyone, only some of people who are wrong, who are asses, or who take a stab at me (if I argued with everyone on here in those categories I'd never have time to sleep). I started requiring proof of things because of all the idiots who make posts contrary to the facts and the only proof they provide is, "because I say so". "This car is faster because I say so". "This engine is better because I say so". Blah, blah, blah... Cry me a river.
This is the first car forum I've ever been involved with that had so many hateful *******s. I guess it's starting to rub off on me... You don't see this kind of bickering at the Mustang, Vette, Viper, etc.. forums. A little, yes, but not on every post in every forum like in here. For the most part they all stick together and bash people with other types of cars. But people here seem to stick up for people with other cars and bash the people with the same cars. WTF?! It's like a royal rumble. Maybe I'll go back to just reading and not posting.
02-11-2008, 10:50 PM
#142
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Geez what have I done by starting this thread 
Damn I feel bad LOL, and I havent even BOUGHT my Z yet LOLOLOL.
Sigh Im such an instigator rofl.
-Aaron
Damn I feel bad LOL, and I havent even BOUGHT my Z yet LOLOLOL.
Sigh Im such an instigator rofl.
-Aaron
02-18-2008, 05:33 PM
#150
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I'm late to the party, it seems. I just wanted to state my opinions and experiences.
+1 on what Todd said, along with everybody else who essentially said the same thing.
FYI, my 03 only had a popcharger, mrev2, 5/16th spacer, test pipes, and slicks to pull off my 13.212@104.75mph (click sig for time slip) - less than half of the $4000 you state. That was also the first night I ever launched on slicks.
Originally Posted by aceman
Here is a overlay of a HR engine with a few mods and my DE engine with everything but heads and cams.
https://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/328813-dyno-overlay-of-a-07-and-03-same-day-same-dyno.html
The HR engine is a far better design then the DE engine. But it should be, it has been 5 years now.
Later
Todd
https://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/328813-dyno-overlay-of-a-07-and-03-same-day-same-dyno.html
The HR engine is a far better design then the DE engine. But it should be, it has been 5 years now.
Later
Todd
Originally Posted by gsingh350Z
Ok. Prove it.
Put $4,000 worth of bolt-on mods to your engine and go beat the best 07 stock time...which is 13.1 now.
$100 says you can't.
Put $4,000 worth of bolt-on mods to your engine and go beat the best 07 stock time...which is 13.1 now.
$100 says you can't.
03-12-2008, 11:01 AM
#152
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misinformation dispelled.
Originally Posted by RBlover69
this is possibly the funniest thing i have heard LMAO HAHAAHHAHAHHA someone put this in there sig.
you realize that the 06.5 Z have the same suspension as the 07s and 08s right LMAO and susupension wise beyond spring rates of the previous gens there almost null compared to the previous with disreguard to the nismo Z. Your engine has no merit on maneuvers you think you cannot pull off because of engine difference lmao. The torque on these engines wether it be DE DER OR HR all have sufficient torque to pull of the same manuevers almost identically. We all still have preety much a linear power band, its the way the Z was designed form start from finish in regaurds to the VQ from its french origins.
you realize that the 06.5 Z have the same suspension as the 07s and 08s right LMAO and susupension wise beyond spring rates of the previous gens there almost null compared to the previous with disreguard to the nismo Z. Your engine has no merit on maneuvers you think you cannot pull off because of engine difference lmao. The torque on these engines wether it be DE DER OR HR all have sufficient torque to pull of the same manuevers almost identically. We all still have preety much a linear power band, its the way the Z was designed form start from finish in regaurds to the VQ from its french origins.
Ok I realize this thread has been down for a few weeks. Though the unfactual statement above needs to be corrected. You sir do not know your Nissans very well. The VQ is a straight up 100% Nissan engine.
If you cannot get your historical facts straight, your arguments don't even stand on solid ground.
Renault uses the VQ in Formula Renault because they own a majority interest in Nissan and the VQ30 happens to be the Nismo platform of choice.
Now, Renault is not to be scoffed at. They built the R5 Turbo Rally car and many successful Formula One champion cars. Though you cannot just blindly assume the tech of Nissans engines to the French.
Oh and for the haters of the 07 hood bump, heh you guys miss your history as well. The 07 hood bump goes right back to Original S30 aka 240z. Its actually quite defining for a Z car to have that bump.
Last edited by drift freaq; 03-12-2008 at 05:31 PM. Reason: for being corrected on the lineage of VG and VQ. can't be perfect we are human.
03-12-2008, 02:21 PM
#154
The VQ engine began development in 1990, I have the SAE technical papers published by Nissan covering the new engine. It was designed to replace the VG, it is in no way related to the VG engine. The bore centers, coolant passages, heads, are all different and all designed from scratch by Nissan. The original SAE document has many points to make about this clean-slate design being necessary to achieve the desired harmonics and dynamics that made the engine so successful, and lightweight. Good engine harmonics and light weight were the primary objectives to the VQ. This is a Nissan designed engine, that has been used by Renault, and not the other way around.
Will
edit: wanted to add, in keeping with the topic, that I think this whole HR vs DE business is lame. The HR is a natural progression of the VQ design that increased engine smoothness and power. It should be this way, otherwise Nissan engineers would suck for making a new evolution of the VQ that was worse than the previous generation. Aftermarket potential for the HR is barely developed, so it's pointless to compare potential of the engines. The DE is a good engine, the HR is fundamentally better, only time will tell which is best for modding.
Will
edit: wanted to add, in keeping with the topic, that I think this whole HR vs DE business is lame. The HR is a natural progression of the VQ design that increased engine smoothness and power. It should be this way, otherwise Nissan engineers would suck for making a new evolution of the VQ that was worse than the previous generation. Aftermarket potential for the HR is barely developed, so it's pointless to compare potential of the engines. The DE is a good engine, the HR is fundamentally better, only time will tell which is best for modding.
Last edited by Resolute; 03-12-2008 at 02:26 PM.
03-12-2008, 03:45 PM
#155
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Originally Posted by Resolute
The VQ engine began development in 1990, I have the SAE technical papers published by Nissan covering the new engine. It was designed to replace the VG, it is in no way related to the VG engine. The bore centers, coolant passages, heads, are all different and all designed from scratch by Nissan. The original SAE document has many points to make about this clean-slate design being necessary to achieve the desired harmonics and dynamics that made the engine so successful, and lightweight. Good engine harmonics and light weight were the primary objectives to the VQ. This is a Nissan designed engine, that has been used by Renault, and not the other way around.
Will
edit: wanted to add, in keeping with the topic, that I think this whole HR vs DE business is lame. The HR is a natural progression of the VQ design that increased engine smoothness and power. It should be this way, otherwise Nissan engineers would suck for making a new evolution of the VQ that was worse than the previous generation. Aftermarket potential for the HR is barely developed, so it's pointless to compare potential of the engines. The DE is a good engine, the HR is fundamentally better, only time will tell which is best for modding.
Will
edit: wanted to add, in keeping with the topic, that I think this whole HR vs DE business is lame. The HR is a natural progression of the VQ design that increased engine smoothness and power. It should be this way, otherwise Nissan engineers would suck for making a new evolution of the VQ that was worse than the previous generation. Aftermarket potential for the HR is barely developed, so it's pointless to compare potential of the engines. The DE is a good engine, the HR is fundamentally better, only time will tell which is best for modding.
03-12-2008, 05:29 PM
#156
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Originally Posted by Resolute
The VQ engine began development in 1990, I have the SAE technical papers published by Nissan covering the new engine. It was designed to replace the VG, it is in no way related to the VG engine. The bore centers, coolant passages, heads, are all different and all designed from scratch by Nissan. The original SAE document has many points to make about this clean-slate design being necessary to achieve the desired harmonics and dynamics that made the engine so successful, and lightweight. Good engine harmonics and light weight were the primary objectives to the VQ. This is a Nissan designed engine, that has been used by Renault, and not the other way around.
Will
edit: wanted to add, in keeping with the topic, that I think this whole HR vs DE business is lame. The HR is a natural progression of the VQ design that increased engine smoothness and power. It should be this way, otherwise Nissan engineers would suck for making a new evolution of the VQ that was worse than the previous generation. Aftermarket potential for the HR is barely developed, so it's pointless to compare potential of the engines. The DE is a good engine, the HR is fundamentally better, only time will tell which is best for modding.
Will
edit: wanted to add, in keeping with the topic, that I think this whole HR vs DE business is lame. The HR is a natural progression of the VQ design that increased engine smoothness and power. It should be this way, otherwise Nissan engineers would suck for making a new evolution of the VQ that was worse than the previous generation. Aftermarket potential for the HR is barely developed, so it's pointless to compare potential of the engines. The DE is a good engine, the HR is fundamentally better, only time will tell which is best for modding.
I will also concur with you on the HR being a natural progression. I will not concur on your idea of the comparisons being lame.
You want to hear about mistakes Nissan has made on engine designs in the past?
Try out the fact that in order to save money they went to a 4 lobe cam with actuating rocker arm setup on the perfectly square SR20DE bottom end, designed to rev but combined with a top end that won't go past 8200 rpm with out rocker arm float!
Try out the KA24DE a engine with 8 lobe cams and bucket follower direct to valve valve train designed for revving stuck on a long stroke bottom end that does not rev.
Sure the engine are not bad but they could have been better. Nissan got it right with the L16,L18,L24, FJ20, CA!8DET,RB26DETT.
Now they have got it right with the VQ30DE and the VQ35HR. So for the sake of the OP 's question its fair to compare the three versions of the engine. He asked a legitimate question. Its only the DE owners that started crying foul over the fact that the HR is a better engine. Hence a discussion ensuing . Lame? eh
The funny thing here is like other HR owners have stated its not the HR owners that are making the biggest stink. Its the DE owners.
Devils advocate time......
Now I am just pointing out reasons why it might be debate worthy and as I much as I like Nissan, Nissan is far from perfect and has made many mistakes in the past. So therefor question and discussion is not lame at all.
Last edited by drift freaq; 03-12-2008 at 05:54 PM.
03-12-2008, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by drift freaq
Ok I stand corrected on the connection of the two engines but my point is still true that VQ did not have anything design wise to do with Renault which is what the post I quoted was claiming.
I will also concur with you on the HR being a natural progression. I will not concur on your idea of the comparisons being lame.
You want to hear about mistakes Nissan has made on engine designs in the past?
Try out the fact that in order to save money they went to a 4 lobe cam with actuating rocker arm setup on the perfect square SR20DE and bottom end designed to rev combined with a top end that won't go past 8.2 rpm with out rocker arm float!
Try out the KA24DE a engine with 8 lobe cams and bucket follower direct to valve valve train designed for revving stuck on a long stroke bottom end that does not rev.
Sure the engine are not bad but they could have been better. Nissan got it right with the L16,L18,L24, FJ20, CA!8DET,RB26DETT.
Now they have got it right with the VQ30DE and the VQ35HR. So for the sake of the OP 's question its fair to compare the three versions of the engine. He asked a legitimate question. Its only the DE owners that started crying foul over the fact that the HR is a better engine. Hence a discussion ensuing . Lame? eh
The funny thing here is like other HR owners have stated its not the HR owners that are making the biggest stink. Its the DE owners.
Devils advocate time......
Now I am just pointing out reasons why it might be debate worthy and as I much as I like Nissan, Nissan is far from perfect and has made many mistakes in the past. So therefor question and discussion is not lame at all.
I will also concur with you on the HR being a natural progression. I will not concur on your idea of the comparisons being lame.
You want to hear about mistakes Nissan has made on engine designs in the past?
Try out the fact that in order to save money they went to a 4 lobe cam with actuating rocker arm setup on the perfect square SR20DE and bottom end designed to rev combined with a top end that won't go past 8.2 rpm with out rocker arm float!
Try out the KA24DE a engine with 8 lobe cams and bucket follower direct to valve valve train designed for revving stuck on a long stroke bottom end that does not rev.
Sure the engine are not bad but they could have been better. Nissan got it right with the L16,L18,L24, FJ20, CA!8DET,RB26DETT.
Now they have got it right with the VQ30DE and the VQ35HR. So for the sake of the OP 's question its fair to compare the three versions of the engine. He asked a legitimate question. Its only the DE owners that started crying foul over the fact that the HR is a better engine. Hence a discussion ensuing . Lame? eh
The funny thing here is like other HR owners have stated its not the HR owners that are making the biggest stink. Its the DE owners.
Devils advocate time......
Now I am just pointing out reasons why it might be debate worthy and as I much as I like Nissan, Nissan is far from perfect and has made many mistakes in the past. So therefor question and discussion is not lame at all.
03-12-2008, 06:25 PM
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Must say that it is nice to see two people who actually know their stuff have a debate of fact. Awesome. I agree on all points. I learned some things drift freaq, from your message. Again, glad some people can post:
a)Their facts in a way that is.......... punctuated. Sorry, some people need to get a grasp of the english language. I think it is great to see all different cultures on here, but get an english speaking friend to proof your message before you post it.
b)Intelligent. Opinion is ok, but stupid representation of that opinion isn't.
c)Informative. Have something to add. I think that having a finger pointing to the message above is a waste of time and bits.
d)Understandable. (see a) above and change punctuation to "grammatical and spell checked)
What I am trying to say is this forum should stay alive if this is the type of messages that will be posted.
a)Their facts in a way that is.......... punctuated. Sorry, some people need to get a grasp of the english language. I think it is great to see all different cultures on here, but get an english speaking friend to proof your message before you post it.
b)Intelligent. Opinion is ok, but stupid representation of that opinion isn't.
c)Informative. Have something to add. I think that having a finger pointing to the message above is a waste of time and bits.
d)Understandable. (see a) above and change punctuation to "grammatical and spell checked)
What I am trying to say is this forum should stay alive if this is the type of messages that will be posted.
Last edited by Shadrackc; 03-12-2008 at 06:29 PM.
03-14-2008, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by drift freaq
Ok I realize this thread has been down for a few weeks. Though the unfactual statement above needs to be corrected. You sir do not know your Nissans very well. The VQ is a straight up 100% Nissan engine.
If you cannot get your historical facts straight, your arguments don't even stand on solid ground.
Renault uses the VQ in Formula Renault because they own a majority interest in Nissan and the VQ30 happens to be the Nismo platform of choice.
Now, Renault is not to be scoffed at. They built the R5 Turbo Rally car and many successful Formula One champion cars. Though you cannot just blindly assume the tech of Nissans engines to the French.
Oh and for the haters of the 07 hood bump, heh you guys miss your history as well. The 07 hood bump goes right back to Original S30 aka 240z. Its actually quite defining for a Z car to have that bump.
If you cannot get your historical facts straight, your arguments don't even stand on solid ground.
Renault uses the VQ in Formula Renault because they own a majority interest in Nissan and the VQ30 happens to be the Nismo platform of choice.
Now, Renault is not to be scoffed at. They built the R5 Turbo Rally car and many successful Formula One champion cars. Though you cannot just blindly assume the tech of Nissans engines to the French.
Oh and for the haters of the 07 hood bump, heh you guys miss your history as well. The 07 hood bump goes right back to Original S30 aka 240z. Its actually quite defining for a Z car to have that bump.
Last edited by RBlover69; 03-14-2008 at 03:41 PM.
03-14-2008, 04:15 PM
#160
Originally Posted by RBlover69
okay, your confused you took my words and misunderstood the meaning by origin i meant first placement of the engine in a vehicle WHICH WAS in a Renault FIRST a french car. You cannot nit pick words and make your own wiki out of them without understanding wtf im talking about. The vq series was first layed in french hands not the Z. Thats what i meant by origin. Not manufactered specs cmon .....man. Try again. Any genious understands that its japanese made but its presense in a vehicle was first displayed in a french car.