Oil changes... why so often?
04-19-2008, 08:09 PM
#41
Originally Posted by Hoooper
a) i do
b) i know
c) were not talking about a warm engine
b) i know
c) were not talking about a warm engine
b) Read it again
c) what? The thinner oil is better for a colder engine at startup b/c it flows better and reduces engine wear. If ur not an @sshat, you're not beating on the car when the engine and oil temps have not reached adequate temps anyway. When the engine and oil are "warm" the thinner oil is now thicker.
Also Mobil1 0w40 is considered by many to be a slightly thinner 5w30, and is thicker than other 0w40 oils.
Do you have special needs or something?
Last edited by jonnylaw; 04-19-2008 at 08:12 PM.
04-19-2008, 10:08 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by jonnylaw
a) No you really don't.
b) Read it again
c) what? The thinner oil is better for a colder engine at startup b/c it flows better and reduces engine wear. If ur not an @sshat, you're not beating on the car when the engine and oil temps have not reached adequate temps anyway.
b) Read it again
c) what? The thinner oil is better for a colder engine at startup b/c it flows better and reduces engine wear. If ur not an @sshat, you're not beating on the car when the engine and oil temps have not reached adequate temps anyway.
/lesson
04-19-2008, 10:19 PM
#44
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Hoooper: the key to the 0w30 and 0w40 weight oils is how quickly these oils can circulate through the engine at startup, decreasing the length of time that your engine experiences its highest wear rate.
As Will put it:
It is also important to remember that a 0w30 oil has the same viscosity as a 10w30 weight when both are at normal operating temps.
As Will put it:
Originally Posted by Resolute
Thicker oil is harder to pump, and takes longer to circulate through the system. Therefore, having an oil that can stay as close to the operating viscosity as possible, while it is still cold, is a good thing. This means the oil thins out less with heat, and circulates faster upon start-up (the most critical time for wear).
Last edited by ColoradoClark; 04-19-2008 at 10:23 PM.
04-19-2008, 10:21 PM
#45
Originally Posted by Hoooper
the point is that a high % of wear comes from cold starts, where the oil isnt in and about the engine. with the low pressures, the thin oil gets around faster, but it doesnt adequately separate the internals like a thicker oil does. since i was only talking about warm climates, the thin oil of the 0w is just extra thin at start up, where the 5 or 10w flows plenty quickly AND adequately lubricates. but youre right, i dont know what multigrade is/does and i dont understand it. thats why i always find as many oil chart suggestions for the engine as i can and base from there. thats why being in a warm climate, i know my 10w30 is perfect, never cold enough here to need that thin oil and always warm enough that the 0w is too thin.
/lesson
/lesson
Let's start with the obvious question first:
Care to explain how you figure that a 9-10 cSt oil viscosity is fine, but a 60 cSt oil viscosity is "too thin to protect" our engines?
Will
04-19-2008, 11:30 PM
#46
Originally Posted by Resolute
Ok, I'll play.
Let's start with the obvious question first:
Care to explain how you figure that a 9-10 cSt oil viscosity is fine, but a 60 cSt oil viscosity is "too thin to protect" our engines?
Will
Let's start with the obvious question first:
Care to explain how you figure that a 9-10 cSt oil viscosity is fine, but a 60 cSt oil viscosity is "too thin to protect" our engines?
Will
04-20-2008, 12:48 AM
#47
Originally Posted by Resolute
Ok, I'll play.
Let's start with the obvious question first:
Care to explain how you figure that a 9-10 cSt oil viscosity is fine, but a 60 cSt oil viscosity is "too thin to protect" our engines?
Will
Let's start with the obvious question first:
Care to explain how you figure that a 9-10 cSt oil viscosity is fine, but a 60 cSt oil viscosity is "too thin to protect" our engines?
Will
Let him post the real story....../thread
04-20-2008, 09:27 AM
#48
Not pwning anyone, rather I'm curious as to his rationale. I assume he doesn't really understand what has been said several times- that oil thickens as it gets colder.
The fact is a lightweight 0W-5 oil is thicker at 50 deg F (probable starting temperature) than his 10W-30 is at 212 deg F (common operating temperature). Now, if a 30 weight oil at operating temperature is the right viscosity, then how is it plausible to assume that when the oil is many times thicker at start-up, that it is in any way "too thin"?
His post is also dubious in regards to both the operation of hydrodynamic bearings and other clearances which require an oil film, because he seems to neglect the greater function of oil pressure over viscosity under such circumstances. (which is why your bearings don't fail despite the drastic change in viscosity the oil goes through, especially a 10W-30)
This also neglects the fact that FLOW is fundamentally more important for lubrication and cooling than oil weight. Oil chemistry also has more to do with protection of critical parts than the "thickness" of an oil.
The best performing oils in the VQ have been 0W-30 oils, btw. The Castrol Syntec 0W-30 and both flavors of Amsoil 0W-30 (the TSO and SSO) have shown less engine wear than many of the other oils tested from a VQ.
It is incorrect to assume that the first number in the oil weight has anything to do with the operating viscosity. It is also incorrect to assume that an oil can be "too thin" when not yet up to operating temperatures (like when you first start your car). Remembering that an oil exponentially thickens as it cools, using a 0W-xx oil means the oil will not thicken as much when cold as compared to when it is hot. In other words, most 0W-xx oils have a high viscosity index, meaning the intended weight of the oil is held through a broader range of temperatures, and this is always a good thing for your engine. Yes, a 0W-30 is still thicker when cold than when hot, but not to the same degree as a 10W-30. To assume a thicker oil is needed when cold is incorrect. Manufacturers make oil recommendations on operating temperatures, and keeping the oil as close to that viscosity as possible in all temperature ranges is a good thing.
Again, this is covered in more detail in the Oil Analysis sticky.
Will
The fact is a lightweight 0W-5 oil is thicker at 50 deg F (probable starting temperature) than his 10W-30 is at 212 deg F (common operating temperature). Now, if a 30 weight oil at operating temperature is the right viscosity, then how is it plausible to assume that when the oil is many times thicker at start-up, that it is in any way "too thin"?
His post is also dubious in regards to both the operation of hydrodynamic bearings and other clearances which require an oil film, because he seems to neglect the greater function of oil pressure over viscosity under such circumstances. (which is why your bearings don't fail despite the drastic change in viscosity the oil goes through, especially a 10W-30)
This also neglects the fact that FLOW is fundamentally more important for lubrication and cooling than oil weight. Oil chemistry also has more to do with protection of critical parts than the "thickness" of an oil.
The best performing oils in the VQ have been 0W-30 oils, btw. The Castrol Syntec 0W-30 and both flavors of Amsoil 0W-30 (the TSO and SSO) have shown less engine wear than many of the other oils tested from a VQ.
It is incorrect to assume that the first number in the oil weight has anything to do with the operating viscosity. It is also incorrect to assume that an oil can be "too thin" when not yet up to operating temperatures (like when you first start your car). Remembering that an oil exponentially thickens as it cools, using a 0W-xx oil means the oil will not thicken as much when cold as compared to when it is hot. In other words, most 0W-xx oils have a high viscosity index, meaning the intended weight of the oil is held through a broader range of temperatures, and this is always a good thing for your engine. Yes, a 0W-30 is still thicker when cold than when hot, but not to the same degree as a 10W-30. To assume a thicker oil is needed when cold is incorrect. Manufacturers make oil recommendations on operating temperatures, and keeping the oil as close to that viscosity as possible in all temperature ranges is a good thing.
Again, this is covered in more detail in the Oil Analysis sticky.
Will
04-21-2008, 07:55 AM
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the manual on my '08 g35 sedan 6mt and the oil cap clearly state 5w30. the manual does talk about climate and viscosity ranges for different climates, but I really don't see anyway nissan/infiniti can void your warranty for running 5w30 regardless. Messing with the latest "fad" in oil viscosity just seems to give the dealers another trigger point to void a warranty. I'm sticking with 5w30 
04-22-2008, 08:03 AM
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I don't know sh*t about motor oil and what all the numbers mean, but I do know that a ton of people are apparently using either Amsoil 5w30 or Mobil1 0w40, so I'm going to do the same and pick one of those.
Sometimes it's better to blindly follow the pack.
Sometimes it's better to blindly follow the pack.
04-22-2008, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Resolute
What do you consider a 100% bona-fide answer? He's wrong on all accounts, but what would be good proof? Want the math on oil viscosity at various temperatures to prove it? That would be easy to post, but how many people understand J300 specs and the difference between centipoise and centistokes? I could describe what the difference is and give some examples, but then you're taking my word on it and is that considered bona-fide?
Will
Will
I more so meant that so many people bring in either differing theories or evidence, and it is information overload. For most of us who aren't as knowledgeable on the topic, sifting through all the available stuff is daunting. Good example of it right here; Hooper posts a diagram showing oil operating temp ranges. If an average user googled oil operating ranges and saw that picture, chances are they would take it as fact, not knowing there might be a better choice of oil if they researched their specific car's UOA's and what not.
You've proven that you know your stuff, no disputing that.
That is all
And with that, my course of action when faced with information overload is to find the most reputed, proven source of info, and strictly follow that path until it is proven incorrect. Continual 2nd guessing is enemy of consistency.
Last edited by KManZ; 04-22-2008 at 08:53 AM.
04-22-2008, 08:59 AM
#53
Originally Posted by KManZ
Will, you are the man when it comes to oil, I was by no means disagreeing with you I more so meant that so many people bring in either differing theories or evidence, and it is information overload. For most of us who aren't as knowledgeable on the topic, sifting through all the available stuff is daunting.
Good example of it right here; Hooper posts a diagram showing oil operating temp ranges. If an average user googled oil operating ranges and saw that picture, chances are they would take it as fact, not knowing there might be a better choice of oil if they researched their specific car's UOA's and what not.
Thats all
I more so meant that so many people bring in either differing theories or evidence, and it is information overload. For most of us who aren't as knowledgeable on the topic, sifting through all the available stuff is daunting. Good example of it right here; Hooper posts a diagram showing oil operating temp ranges. If an average user googled oil operating ranges and saw that picture, chances are they would take it as fact, not knowing there might be a better choice of oil if they researched their specific car's UOA's and what not.
Thats all
It is tough to understand sometimes, and unfortunately, the consumer's ignorance comes back to bite them. A good example is the 0W-20 that M1 came out with a few years back. Many new Honda and Fords spec a 5W-20 oil, and M1 made a 0W-20 that met all the factory specs and then some. Mobil understands that 0W oils are the future, and has been gearing their base stocks towards this end. Owners, however, were caught off-guard by the "0W" and thought that it must be too thin an oil. Now, M1 makes a 5W-20 because that is what the owners were told to use, and M1 will cater to that market. It's a shame, because in order to meet the specs for a 5W oil, more G3 base oil was added to "thicken" up the cold start properties of the oil. For those that know better, though, the 0W-20 is still available, and has more PAO in it than the 5W-20. This means better fuel economy, less start-up wear, better high temperature protection, and longer oil changes. All benefits to using it in place of the 5W-20, but the market wasn't ready to embrace a 0W oil, and it became the customer's loss.
I still think a good conventional 5W-30 like GTX is the way to go for most VQ owners who don't track their car or go for extended drains, but it's a shame to blanket statement a better product like synthetic 0W-30's as "too thin," when that is hardly the case. Most of the top performing synthetics in UOA's have been 0W-30 oils.
As to the original question for this thread, many owners here go for extended oil change intervals of up to 9k miles. It depends on the oil you use, and how you drive. Myself, I am coming up on one year with the same oil fill. I'll change it out in May. For a better explanation on oil change intervals, the TBN test, and what oils have shown good results for long drains, see the Used Oil Analysis sticky.
Will
04-22-2008, 09:59 AM
#54
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Originally Posted by Resolute
Well said, I wasn't trying to come off as rude, sorry if I did.
It is tough to understand sometimes, and unfortunately, the consumer's ignorance comes back to bite them. A good example is the 0W-20 that M1 came out with a few years back. Many new Honda and Fords spec a 5W-20 oil, and M1 made a 0W-20 that met all the factory specs and then some. Mobil understands that 0W oils are the future, and has been gearing their base stocks towards this end. Owners, however, were caught off-guard by the "0W" and thought that it must be too thin an oil. Now, M1 makes a 5W-20 because that is what the owners were told to use, and M1 will cater to that market. It's a shame, because in order to meet the specs for a 5W oil, more G3 base oil was added to "thicken" up the cold start properties of the oil. For those that know better, though, the 0W-20 is still available, and has more PAO in it than the 5W-20. This means better fuel economy, less start-up wear, better high temperature protection, and longer oil changes. All benefits to using it in place of the 5W-20, but the market wasn't ready to embrace a 0W oil, and it became the customer's loss.
I still think a good conventional 5W-30 like GTX is the way to go for most VQ owners who don't track their car or go for extended drains, but it's a shame to blanket statement a better product like synthetic 0W-30's as "too thin," when that is hardly the case. Most of the top performing synthetics in UOA's have been 0W-30 oils.
As to the original question for this thread, many owners here go for extended oil change intervals of up to 9k miles. It depends on the oil you use, and how you drive. Myself, I am coming up on one year with the same oil fill. I'll change it out in May. For a better explanation on oil change intervals, the TBN test, and what oils have shown good results for long drains, see the Used Oil Analysis sticky.
Will
It is tough to understand sometimes, and unfortunately, the consumer's ignorance comes back to bite them. A good example is the 0W-20 that M1 came out with a few years back. Many new Honda and Fords spec a 5W-20 oil, and M1 made a 0W-20 that met all the factory specs and then some. Mobil understands that 0W oils are the future, and has been gearing their base stocks towards this end. Owners, however, were caught off-guard by the "0W" and thought that it must be too thin an oil. Now, M1 makes a 5W-20 because that is what the owners were told to use, and M1 will cater to that market. It's a shame, because in order to meet the specs for a 5W oil, more G3 base oil was added to "thicken" up the cold start properties of the oil. For those that know better, though, the 0W-20 is still available, and has more PAO in it than the 5W-20. This means better fuel economy, less start-up wear, better high temperature protection, and longer oil changes. All benefits to using it in place of the 5W-20, but the market wasn't ready to embrace a 0W oil, and it became the customer's loss.
I still think a good conventional 5W-30 like GTX is the way to go for most VQ owners who don't track their car or go for extended drains, but it's a shame to blanket statement a better product like synthetic 0W-30's as "too thin," when that is hardly the case. Most of the top performing synthetics in UOA's have been 0W-30 oils.
As to the original question for this thread, many owners here go for extended oil change intervals of up to 9k miles. It depends on the oil you use, and how you drive. Myself, I am coming up on one year with the same oil fill. I'll change it out in May. For a better explanation on oil change intervals, the TBN test, and what oils have shown good results for long drains, see the Used Oil Analysis sticky.
Will
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