widened stock g35c wheels to ~10.5inches
03-01-2006, 10:14 AM
#41
350Z-holic
iTrader: (45)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami/Kendall, Florida
Posts: 5,327
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if i were to widen the 18" OEM performance/touring wheels (6-spoke), then for sure I would need spacers, in order for the wheel to sit flush with the car right?
Otherwise the wheel would be wider, but still sit way inside the fender?
Otherwise the wheel would be wider, but still sit way inside the fender?
03-01-2006, 10:19 AM
#42
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Essentially you need spacers to get the original face of the wheel out the "flush" with the fender. Then, you have the original inner clearance PLUS the new spacer's clearance to "grow" inwards with widening. With the right spacer (creating new backspacing), you will be able to widen prolly up to 11" with some magic. 18x10.5 will be big enough to hold any tire you can stick on there though.
03-01-2006, 12:24 PM
#43
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 2,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Wired 24/7
In my opinion as an engineer, there's 2 things to think about.
1) The welds, if done properly, are going to be stronger than the surrounding metal.
2) The welds are not directly experiencing significant torque from the axle. The only way to break off a weld would be to hold the inside of the rim while twisting the outside. This would never occur in the real world. The outside (street facing) part of the rim transfers momentum and torque to the inside (wheel well facing) part of the rim. That is a VERY LONG weld to break from the kinds of torque that an automobile can deliver.
Conclusion: Safe unless it's a seriously **** job.
1) The welds, if done properly, are going to be stronger than the surrounding metal.
2) The welds are not directly experiencing significant torque from the axle. The only way to break off a weld would be to hold the inside of the rim while twisting the outside. This would never occur in the real world. The outside (street facing) part of the rim transfers momentum and torque to the inside (wheel well facing) part of the rim. That is a VERY LONG weld to break from the kinds of torque that an automobile can deliver.
Conclusion: Safe unless it's a seriously **** job.
I dont know what else was done after welding, was there any kind of heat treatment done to wheels. In engineering business welding is commonly associated with Heat Affected Zone which get prestressed. So heat treatment is generally done to relieve the stresses. Also for a rotating part that is loaded undergoes cyclic loading or fatigue and welding and associated processes if not done properly is fatigue prone. I didnt want to get this technical. But there is no easy way for me to say this.
Any Metallurgy experts on the board will definitely have a lot to add to this, at least thats the process that I have used in the past.
Welding is crudest method to manufacture a rotating part such as wheel and not finish it up with follow on processes. The precision thats needed when a wheel manufacturer uses a roll forming technique cannot be achieved just by welding. Assuming that a welder doesnt use a custom fixture to hold the piece parts together, a one fit to all wheel fixture will not give the same result. The precision tolerances such a radial run out, face run out, eccentricity and axial misalignment need to measured and if are out of design tolerances, need to be machined or discarded, at least thats how it works in the industry.
American SAE J2530 specifications and Japan’s JWL and Germany’s TUV testing standards respectively should be met before any wheel is certified as safe to used on a vehicle. Doing this welding just completely disregarded these specifications.
People give engineering/science/technology far less credit than it deserves and take it for granted. I wish it were easier, but its not.
Last edited by spacemn_spiff; 03-01-2006 at 12:31 PM.
03-01-2006, 12:59 PM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: HERE
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i want to widen my 06 wheels 2" out back but i'm worried about using spacers and the ride plus i dont want them to look to far out from behind bc of the way the fenders do when they go down.
03-01-2006, 05:19 PM
#46
New Member
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Beaumont, Texas
Posts: 5,668
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Widening wheels has been around for ages, don't worry bout the negitive hype, in my early days while most of ya'll were kids we widened 8 inch Corvette and Camero rally wheels all the time, never a problem. By the looks of your wheels you got a great deal on a great looking job.
03-02-2006, 04:34 AM
#47
Registered User
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 2,014
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, I'm going to switch gears here and not argue how safe/not safe this is to how economically smart it really is. Just for sake of another argument not to do this.
Widening 4 Wheels = $170 per x 4 = $680
2 Sets H&R Spacers = $150 per x 2 = $300
2 315/35/17 Tires (look like Goodyear Eagles?) = $283 per x 2 = $566
2 275/xx/17 Goodyear tires (for front?) = $211 per x 2 = $422
Unmounting of Tires to ship, Mounting of new tires = $100
This comes to roughly $2068. Not to mention the hassles of unmounting/mounting new tires. I'm sure you could have found some decent staggered 17 or 18 wheels (with 9.5-10.5 rear width) that are much lighter than stock, along with the same tires, for about the same price; maybe a little more, but maybe a little less? And your car wouldn't be sitting on OEM rims so it would look a little different.
Only way I can justify this is if you are really hell-bent on being a "sleeper" car.
Widening 4 Wheels = $170 per x 4 = $680
2 Sets H&R Spacers = $150 per x 2 = $300
2 315/35/17 Tires (look like Goodyear Eagles?) = $283 per x 2 = $566
2 275/xx/17 Goodyear tires (for front?) = $211 per x 2 = $422
Unmounting of Tires to ship, Mounting of new tires = $100
This comes to roughly $2068. Not to mention the hassles of unmounting/mounting new tires. I'm sure you could have found some decent staggered 17 or 18 wheels (with 9.5-10.5 rear width) that are much lighter than stock, along with the same tires, for about the same price; maybe a little more, but maybe a little less? And your car wouldn't be sitting on OEM rims so it would look a little different.
Only way I can justify this is if you are really hell-bent on being a "sleeper" car.
03-02-2006, 05:24 AM
#48
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Maryville, IL
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unless you want affordable light wide wheels.
That is the only reason I can see doing this with the track rays wheels.
It would cost more than you quoted for a set of 18x9.5 or larger wheel that weights in the range 19lbs each. And your still going to have to buy new tires, so you can't factor that into the cost of the wheel mod.
Most wheels I find in that size that cost 1,200 or below seems to be 25lbs - 31lbs.
That is the only reason I can see doing this with the track rays wheels.
It would cost more than you quoted for a set of 18x9.5 or larger wheel that weights in the range 19lbs each. And your still going to have to buy new tires, so you can't factor that into the cost of the wheel mod.
Most wheels I find in that size that cost 1,200 or below seems to be 25lbs - 31lbs.
03-02-2006, 09:46 AM
#54
Registered User
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 2,014
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by cms-35z
Unless you want affordable light wide wheels.
That is the only reason I can see doing this with the track rays wheels.
It would cost more than you quoted for a set of 18x9.5 or larger wheel that weights in the range 19lbs each. And your still going to have to buy new tires, so you can't factor that into the cost of the wheel mod.
Most wheels I find in that size that cost 1,200 or below seems to be 25lbs - 31lbs.
That is the only reason I can see doing this with the track rays wheels.
It would cost more than you quoted for a set of 18x9.5 or larger wheel that weights in the range 19lbs each. And your still going to have to buy new tires, so you can't factor that into the cost of the wheel mod.
Most wheels I find in that size that cost 1,200 or below seems to be 25lbs - 31lbs.
03-02-2006, 11:27 AM
#55
Originally Posted by spacemn_spiff
Wired, I dont what was your basis for saying things about torque or any other loads for that matter, it almost seems baseless, I may be wrong, can you elaborate a bit more.
I dont know what else was done after welding, was there any kind of heat treatment done to wheels. In engineering business welding is commonly associated with Heat Affected Zone which get prestressed. So heat treatment is generally done to relieve the stresses. Also for a rotating part that is loaded undergoes cyclic loading or fatigue and welding and associated processes if not done properly is fatigue prone. I didnt want to get this technical. But there is no easy way for me to say this.
Any Metallurgy experts on the board will definitely have a lot to add to this, at least thats the process that I have used in the past.
Welding is crudest method to manufacture a rotating part such as wheel and not finish it up with follow on processes. The precision thats needed when a wheel manufacturer uses a roll forming technique cannot be achieved just by welding. Assuming that a welder doesnt use a custom fixture to hold the piece parts together, a one fit to all wheel fixture will not give the same result. The precision tolerances such a radial run out, face run out, eccentricity and axial misalignment need to measured and if are out of design tolerances, need to be machined or discarded, at least thats how it works in the industry.
American SAE J2530 specifications and Japan’s JWL and Germany’s TUV testing standards respectively should be met before any wheel is certified as safe to used on a vehicle. Doing this welding just completely disregarded these specifications.
People give engineering/science/technology far less credit than it deserves and take it for granted. I wish it were easier, but its not.
I dont know what else was done after welding, was there any kind of heat treatment done to wheels. In engineering business welding is commonly associated with Heat Affected Zone which get prestressed. So heat treatment is generally done to relieve the stresses. Also for a rotating part that is loaded undergoes cyclic loading or fatigue and welding and associated processes if not done properly is fatigue prone. I didnt want to get this technical. But there is no easy way for me to say this.
Any Metallurgy experts on the board will definitely have a lot to add to this, at least thats the process that I have used in the past.
Welding is crudest method to manufacture a rotating part such as wheel and not finish it up with follow on processes. The precision thats needed when a wheel manufacturer uses a roll forming technique cannot be achieved just by welding. Assuming that a welder doesnt use a custom fixture to hold the piece parts together, a one fit to all wheel fixture will not give the same result. The precision tolerances such a radial run out, face run out, eccentricity and axial misalignment need to measured and if are out of design tolerances, need to be machined or discarded, at least thats how it works in the industry.
American SAE J2530 specifications and Japan’s JWL and Germany’s TUV testing standards respectively should be met before any wheel is certified as safe to used on a vehicle. Doing this welding just completely disregarded these specifications.
People give engineering/science/technology far less credit than it deserves and take it for granted. I wish it were easier, but its not.
I'm saying as long as it's done correctly it should be fine. By correctly, I mean by addressing the different topics you're talking about, specifically misalignment.
I believe as long as the wheel is well balanced and aligned properly when the welding is done, it should be fine. Of course an impact (pothole etc) may crack the rim along its defects, and there are most likely more defects at or near the welds.
Heat treatment is of course great for relieving stresses by allowing the dislocations and vacancies to diffuse away from each other. However, I was referring to tensile stress when I said it should be "fine". Unless your car is NUTS and putting down a rediculous amount of 1000+ HP, I don't think the amount of torque a regular automobile can put down will ever reach the tensile limits of the weld.
Even if you do reach the tensile limits of the weld, you should know that the weld will undergo plastic deformation, making it stronger, before it fractures. YES cyclic loading and fatigue are a concern. But think about it. What is the typical cyclic limit of most metals, like 10^6 cycles (correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while for me)? How many decades do you think it would take to reach that limit? I'd be more concerned with my rear differential, axle, transmission, etc WAY before the wheel ever broke. Hell, even the lug nuts and studs are more of a concern than this weld, because they are directly receiving torque.
That's all I'm saying. I'm NOT saying that this won't create a weak link in the wheel. It probably will, ESPECIALLY when hitting potholes. But if the job is done well, the rate of fractures won't be any higher than a typical cast wheel. As you know, cast wheels are prone to having tons of dislocations, deformations, and vacancies which also lead to their cracking. Not everyone can buy forged...
I like this refreshing debate we're having
Last edited by Wired 24/7; 03-02-2006 at 11:29 AM.
03-02-2006, 12:53 PM
#56
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Maryville, IL
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Silkk
He didn't even widen track wheels. He widened already heavy 17" wheels...
That wasn't my point. You were making a reason why a person should not do this, and I was making a reaon why one might justify it.
07-16-2006, 04:10 AM
#57
Registered User
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bellevue, Ne
Posts: 2,386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sorry to resurect a dead thread ...
For all of you who've had questions about weldcraft on the quality of the welds, the wheels, and whether or not they know what they are doing, they wave been in business over 30 years.
I was curious because I remeber in 1990 my dad had a 69 Camero blown 350 W/ NO2 850 +whp that had the wheels widdened. I just got off the phone with them in KY, and he said weldcraft did them. It was done under the origonal owner, stew something or rather ( he couldnt remeber), and their work was garunteed to run true when done and balanced out with no issues. They held up after many runs and acouple of pulls raised the front end. If that aint rotationa torque then what the f@ck is?
Yeah I would be skeptical if this was a company thats been arround for a couple of years; but 30 years yeah I think they know a thing or 2 about what they are doing.
For all of you who've had questions about weldcraft on the quality of the welds, the wheels, and whether or not they know what they are doing, they wave been in business over 30 years.
I was curious because I remeber in 1990 my dad had a 69 Camero blown 350 W/ NO2 850 +whp that had the wheels widdened. I just got off the phone with them in KY, and he said weldcraft did them. It was done under the origonal owner, stew something or rather ( he couldnt remeber), and their work was garunteed to run true when done and balanced out with no issues. They held up after many runs and acouple of pulls raised the front end. If that aint rotationa torque then what the f@ck is?
Yeah I would be skeptical if this was a company thats been arround for a couple of years; but 30 years yeah I think they know a thing or 2 about what they are doing.
03-31-2008, 07:58 AM
#59
Registered User
iTrader: (34)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: oklahoma city
Posts: 7,908
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Wired 24/7
Unless a really shoddy job has been done, it should be fine.
There was a discussion about this before, someone widened the stock 05 Ray's wheels on the 350z.
In my opinion as an engineer, there's 2 things to think about.
1) The welds, if done properly, are going to be stronger than the surrounding metal.
2) The welds are not directly experiencing significant torque from the axle. The only way to break off a weld would be to hold the inside of the rim while twisting the outside. This would never occur in the real world. The outside (street facing) part of the rim transfers momentum and torque to the inside (wheel well facing) part of the rim. That is a VERY LONG weld to break from the kinds of torque that an automobile can deliver.
Conclusion: Safe unless it's a seriously **** job.
There was a discussion about this before, someone widened the stock 05 Ray's wheels on the 350z.
In my opinion as an engineer, there's 2 things to think about.
1) The welds, if done properly, are going to be stronger than the surrounding metal.
2) The welds are not directly experiencing significant torque from the axle. The only way to break off a weld would be to hold the inside of the rim while twisting the outside. This would never occur in the real world. The outside (street facing) part of the rim transfers momentum and torque to the inside (wheel well facing) part of the rim. That is a VERY LONG weld to break from the kinds of torque that an automobile can deliver.
Conclusion: Safe unless it's a seriously **** job.
