I got Toyo T1Rs as many people on this forum recommended them. (Found a lot of T1s/T1r fan posts).

However, *after* I bought them, I also found many "mushy ride" "soft sidewall" posts.

So far I have 200 miles on my T1R, and while they seem to have improved, I still feel that they are not holding very well on dry roads. Haven't had a chance to test on wet roads yet.

Maybe the T1R tread pattern is better for the wet than for the dry?

The only comparison I have is to stock potenzas (re040?) where everyone on this forum said that they suck especially in rain.
But my stock potenzas felt much more like "driving on rails" than my T1R.
Even in the wet, the stock potenzas never gave me any problems, and held up very well. I'd say they almost held better than the T1R in the dry

Is it normal that a 4k-8k miles stock potenza tire feels so much better than a 200 miles T1R?

I have searched for how many miles to put on the T1Rs before they get any good, but postings I found seem very subjective, ranging from 800 miles to 4000 miles.

Thanks!

Edit: I should add that the T1Rs are wider, maybe contributing to the different feeling. But being wider, I would expect them to hold better in the dry instead of worse?

 

besides price, i dont understand why people dont buy the michelin PS2's. I just got my set and they are unbelievable!

 

Give them a little more time to break in.

 

I'm sorry to say that you should have searched more and dug a little deeper. I too noticed that a lot of people get the Toyos but the main complaint has been the softer ride accompanied by a poor handling response. They do tend to run wider than other brands for the same size, that probably means that the side wall has more bluge which makes the ride soft. You'll also probably notice if you look at the specs, they are significantly lighter than other tires. Again, another sign of a thinner sidewall.

 

Aren't T1-R's like a race-compound tire?

 

T1-R sucks, I had them on my previous car(Lexus IS300), they overheated after 2 sessions in a track event at Thudnerhill RAceway, CA, the rubber started to rip off and deform literally.

 

That's because they are not designed for the track. You should have chose the RA-1s or a comparable track tire for your track sessions. The key to picking the right tire is knowing what your driving characteristics are and what you plan to do with them. Everything has it's compromise.

For instance, the T1-Rs would make a great tire for daily driving and some occasional "spirited" driving, but won't be happy on the track. Likewise, the RA-1s would perform beatifully at the track, but drive it daily on the street and the road noise, tread life, and hydroplane resistance would be sacrificed.

 

What tires are you comparing to? Toyo's tend to run NARROWER than other tires, such as Michelin, BFG, Bridgestone. I think one of the few commonly used tires that are narrower than the Toyo's are Falkens.

But to answer the OP's question, give it some time, and they get better! It's either that, or I got used to them.

 

I've had PS2's, PS All Seasons and bfg KDW II's. I prefer the BFG's. The PS2 was a great tire although overpriced and short lived. I also ran Pilot Sport AS for a while, I prefer these to the PS2's personally especially when considering longevity.

 

thanks to all for the replies!

I tried another test, heel-toeing around a 90 degree corner: with the 4k-8k miles stock potenzas it always worked very nicely and with a lot of confidence. No tire squealing, no VDC kicking in, lots of lateral g can be felt. I couldn't reach the limit, because I got scared of the speed before that.
Tried the same with the 200 miles T1R: the tires squealed, it was over the limit, VDC kicked in, the car pushed with the outside tire braking, no fun.... and didn't even feel any lateral g's. Maybe it's that I wasn't driving the same way, and did more braking in the turn causing the VDC kick in...

For me personally the T1Rs at 200 miles have taken the fun out of heel-toeing 90 degree corners.

Since I don't want to take any chances (getting used to it or hoping that it will improve in 4k miles), I went to Les Schwab trying to see what they can do in terms of return. Maybe pay some sort of re-stocking fee, since I drove them for a week or so..

They were really helpful and nice (although I bought the tires quite long ago and had them sitting in the garage), and are ordering PS2s now for me

Ouch, the price... that hurts... Probably the T1Rs are better in the wet with that tread pattern, and they have higher treadwear rating (280 vs. 220) and are much cheaper.
But not for me, I am planning HPDE and tracking, i am just not taking any chances here.

 

I thought T1-R's are the newer improved compound over the T1-S's? I have the T1-S's and i love them, they are so predictable, but they wear pretty fast. I was going to get T1-R's too, but now maybe consider the BFG KDW's.

 

I don't know how the Toyos are in the rain but the PS2's are incredible. Check out my thread on a recent AutoX in the rain:
https://my350z.com/forum/autocross-road/190069-autox-pics.html

 

You like the Toyo T1R better than the OEM tires? There are plenty of 350Z drivers who will be willing to trade their OEM tires for your Toyos.

 

david, how did that in any way contribute to this thread?

 

I had T1-Ss and now T1-Rs. I LOVE my T1-Rs. Daily driver plus occasional "spirited" driving......

Mike (much quieter ride than the T1-Ss)

 

Well, regarding OEM<->Toyo swap: I still have my own OEM tires in the garage for later (they are by far not dead yet at 9k, but they are just too narrow for the new wheels), and I will be swapping the T1Rs for the PS2s, so sorry davidv, won't be available for an OEM<->Toyo swap

Regarding PS2s also being great in the rain:
I could imagine that this agressive looking V tread pattern (highly directional) of the T1Rs is probably best to avoid hydroplaning?

The T1R is probably a really GREAT tire and best bang for the buck for daily driving and probably very resistant to irregular tirewear with the outside pattern.

What I am experiencing is probably not so much about *GRIP* (probably the T1Rs should grip *more* than the OEM) but more about sidewall rigidity. Although the T1R should be greatly improved to the T1s in that respect, I really lost all fun and feeling when sharply turning into a 90 degree corner. It feels like the car gives away, the handling is changed, less precise steering, less steering response, more wobbly, and somekind of snap back, similar to understeer when the tires suddenly grip again.

I did not experience this with the OEM tires. I can imagine this is because one has a low profile tread pattern and is very hard, and the other one has very deep spongy grooves....

I am no tire expert, but I think for dry HPDE/track even the OEM are better than the T1R.

But I will post results once I try the PS2s! Then I'll know for sure whether it's just my bad driving, or this wobbly feeling is just imagination, or whether it comes with any tire on these new wider wheels... or whether my alignment is now incorrect with the wider wheels...

 

PS2 have a soft sidewall, comfortable but somehow with a sporty feeling, just increase tire pressure and lean toward the stretched look.

 

I went to Les Schwab, That says it all.
Kumho MX's Probably cheaper to buy your Michelin's from Discount tire and trade in the TOYO Schwab rags in there also.
Les is in bed w/TOYO, if it's another real brand name they buy on the open market with stupid high prices out the door.

 

how much do you give up in handling with the all seasons vs the bfg's? For non autox driving?

 

haven't seen complain from bfg KDW II's user. I switch from Toyo to BFG and just love it.