Built Issues, Tranny, TB, Everything - At a loss - Help
08-20-2016, 02:27 PM
#1
Built Issues, Tranny, TB, Everything - At a loss - Help
Alright guys - yall are my last hope. If anybody knows VQs it is someone here.
Some subtext: Car is not a Z, it is an M35x. VQ35DE, non-revup, automatic because I am AWD. The bottom is built 8.8:1; the heads are built JWT C8 w/ +1mm; Vortech V3, rebuilt to a T-Trim. Trans is built by speed force racing, stock TC.
This was my first time attacking such a complicated car - I'm accustomed to LS builds.
Ultimately my issue is that the car will not shift out of first gear - if this gets fixed, everything else would be kosher. Before finding out the car would not shift, I was having throttle issues. Kind of like limp mode, but not, I had no RPM cutoff... If i pressed WOT the car would slowly rev to a random RPM, sometimes 2500 other times 5000 etc. I swapped throttle bodies, multimeter wrestled the harness, could not rectify. I decided to mess around with UPREV and the tune, to try and see what the TB tables would do - ultimately came to ETC off/on setting. It was on. I shut it off. The throttle woke up, worked like a champ. Figured that was my issue, bolt checked and test drive.
Tranny doesnt shift. It doesnt act like limp mode. It stays in first, revs normally, voltages and temps all read A-Okay.
I've got no engine errors.
I have a couple of ABS errors - would that cause transmission voodoo? Steering angle is the code.
No transmission codes.
A couple random BCM codes but all of those are accounted for...
I am at a loss - I've tried everything - I bet it is something dumb that I have overlooked. My suspicion is that the throttle body is not talking to the tranny, and considering that the TCM requires input from the TB, TPS, CPS etc. That my issue might be there. But all said and done - NO IDEA WTF TO DO. I am at my knowledge cliff and hopefully yall's experience could at least set me down the path.
Hopefully I can get this going - otherwise ripping it apart and going LS, I suppose yall wouldnt mind a part-out - but don't let that bias your advice. lol.
Some subtext: Car is not a Z, it is an M35x. VQ35DE, non-revup, automatic because I am AWD. The bottom is built 8.8:1; the heads are built JWT C8 w/ +1mm; Vortech V3, rebuilt to a T-Trim. Trans is built by speed force racing, stock TC.
This was my first time attacking such a complicated car - I'm accustomed to LS builds.
Ultimately my issue is that the car will not shift out of first gear - if this gets fixed, everything else would be kosher. Before finding out the car would not shift, I was having throttle issues. Kind of like limp mode, but not, I had no RPM cutoff... If i pressed WOT the car would slowly rev to a random RPM, sometimes 2500 other times 5000 etc. I swapped throttle bodies, multimeter wrestled the harness, could not rectify. I decided to mess around with UPREV and the tune, to try and see what the TB tables would do - ultimately came to ETC off/on setting. It was on. I shut it off. The throttle woke up, worked like a champ. Figured that was my issue, bolt checked and test drive.
Tranny doesnt shift. It doesnt act like limp mode. It stays in first, revs normally, voltages and temps all read A-Okay.
I've got no engine errors.
I have a couple of ABS errors - would that cause transmission voodoo? Steering angle is the code.
No transmission codes.
A couple random BCM codes but all of those are accounted for...
I am at a loss - I've tried everything - I bet it is something dumb that I have overlooked. My suspicion is that the throttle body is not talking to the tranny, and considering that the TCM requires input from the TB, TPS, CPS etc. That my issue might be there. But all said and done - NO IDEA WTF TO DO. I am at my knowledge cliff and hopefully yall's experience could at least set me down the path.
Hopefully I can get this going - otherwise ripping it apart and going LS, I suppose yall wouldnt mind a part-out - but don't let that bias your advice. lol.
08-20-2016, 04:41 PM
#2
New Member
Don't rip it apart, ha.
The tranny is built? hm. Who did all of the work besides that?
Worst case, just follow my build thread and it's basically step by step 6spd swap ha.
The tranny is built? hm. Who did all of the work besides that?
Worst case, just follow my build thread and it's basically step by step 6spd swap ha.
Last edited by yosip1115; 08-20-2016 at 04:42 PM.
08-21-2016, 06:14 AM
#4
New Member
Did you try both sport mode and drive? Just curious.
Did you get into the shift points in uprev? You may want to consider paying someone for a base-map tune just to rule out error on your part since it is your first time tackling such a complicated car comparatively speaking.
It sounds like an electrical issue. You said you are new to these cars, have you heard of the TCM reprogramming? It is something that needs to be done at the dealer when you swap trannys. They may have a core program? Did they mention anything about that?
Also go in and count the clockspring turns from full left to full right, then center it before re-mounting the wheel. Should fix the steering angle sensor issue and it is very easy to do so you can rule that out quickly.
Last edited by yosip1115; 08-21-2016 at 06:39 AM.
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fat3oy (08-21-2016)
08-21-2016, 07:22 AM
#5
Yes, you will lose AWD. As did I. By worst case I meant if the tranny was un-salvageable and you didn't want to have it re-done. It's a surefire route to get you up and running.
Did you try both sport mode and drive? Just curious.
Did you get into the shift points in uprev? You may want to consider paying someone for a base-map tune just to rule out error on your part since it is your first time tackling such a complicated car comparatively speaking.
It sounds like an electrical issue. You said you are new to these cars, have you heard of the TCM reprogramming? It is something that needs to be done at the dealer when you swap trannys. They may have a core program? Did they mention anything about that?
Also go in and count the clockspring turns from full left to full right, then center it before re-mounting the wheel. Should fix the steering angle sensor issue and it is very easy to do so you can rule that out quickly.
Did you try both sport mode and drive? Just curious.
Did you get into the shift points in uprev? You may want to consider paying someone for a base-map tune just to rule out error on your part since it is your first time tackling such a complicated car comparatively speaking.
It sounds like an electrical issue. You said you are new to these cars, have you heard of the TCM reprogramming? It is something that needs to be done at the dealer when you swap trannys. They may have a core program? Did they mention anything about that?
Also go in and count the clockspring turns from full left to full right, then center it before re-mounting the wheel. Should fix the steering angle sensor issue and it is very easy to do so you can rule that out quickly.
I have a couple of base maps - car was superchargered prior, with a UPREV tune before the built engine and trans. Previous map was bogged due to an increase of fuel with the better system, had another base map done, swapped plugs, etc.
Doing research I did stumble upon the TCM learn. My maxisys has the option for clearing the eeprom - but wont let me do it, as it has a 'yet' exception, meaning the eeprom was flashed correctly. Would the eeprom cause the tranny to stay in first gear? I thought it would not start?
I did rectify the steering angle with the scanner as well as clockspring count - but the error returns.
I returned the shift points/torque tables to OE, a modified version, and flatline - had zero affect.
At least I am on the right track - glad all of the above is in line with troubleshooting.
08-21-2016, 07:52 AM
#6
New Member
Good info - thanks for the input.
I have a couple of base maps - car was superchargered prior, with a UPREV tune before the built engine and trans. Previous map was bogged due to an increase of fuel with the better system, had another base map done, swapped plugs, etc.
Doing research I did stumble upon the TCM learn. My maxisys has the option for clearing the eeprom - but wont let me do it, as it has a 'yet' exception, meaning the eeprom was flashed correctly. Would the eeprom cause the tranny to stay in first gear? I thought it would not start?
I did rectify the steering angle with the scanner as well as clockspring count - but the error returns.
I returned the shift points/torque tables to OE, a modified version, and flatline - had zero affect.
At least I am on the right track - glad all of the above is in line with troubleshooting.
I have a couple of base maps - car was superchargered prior, with a UPREV tune before the built engine and trans. Previous map was bogged due to an increase of fuel with the better system, had another base map done, swapped plugs, etc.
Doing research I did stumble upon the TCM learn. My maxisys has the option for clearing the eeprom - but wont let me do it, as it has a 'yet' exception, meaning the eeprom was flashed correctly. Would the eeprom cause the tranny to stay in first gear? I thought it would not start?
I did rectify the steering angle with the scanner as well as clockspring count - but the error returns.
I returned the shift points/torque tables to OE, a modified version, and flatline - had zero affect.
At least I am on the right track - glad all of the above is in line with troubleshooting.
You seem to know what you are doing- have you contacted speed force? I think it is pretty straightforward to put the new engine and transmission in, and am doubtful that you screwed anything up in terms of wiring. The plugs are all dummy proof anyway.
Going back to your original post; do you have any evidence or reason to believe there is a lack of communication going on between the tcm and the tps, etc?
Before swapping to 6spd I molested the AT system pretty badly, but never got stuck in first. I had the YAW sensor unhooked, a switch to cut power to the transfer case, and no front drive shaft, lol.
any other wiring you may have messed with? does the abs system make funky noises when you are just getting going?
08-21-2016, 08:14 AM
#7
I havent contacted them yet - started heavy troubleshooting as they closed, so will have to wait until tomorrow.
The lack of communication theory comes from information I read about how the TCM operates - in that it ratios throttle input, A/F, cam phasing, etc to adjust line pressure.
Since I was/am having issues with throttle response (with ETC turned on via uprev) I think it is maybe related.
To top it off - I get a CAN communication error U1000 - my only error for the transmission. But the error is general, when scanned the vehicle is always in the ON position but not started - if I scan while idling I get no errors.
Now - you ask about the ABS. Can of worms opened.
I installed the engine by dropping the sub, the brakes were nearly dry upon installation. I power bled them - did not monkey with the ABS. First parking lot test ABS went apeshit, all lights and that jazz. Had air in the ABS for sure - no peddle, fluid was in loop. SO - I bled for hours while cycling the ABS - got peddle back, no lights.
Jump to first proper test drive where I discovered the transmission issue - 100 yards under 50% throttle, my ABS goes nuts, pedal starts pop locking. Slip and VDC. ****. I head back to shop in the glorious 1st gear and 5000rpm coast.
That is the ballad of unnecessarily complicated tech features.
You reckon the ABS will tell my transmission to f*ck off??
I hope you say yes - because that is an easy enough fix.
The lack of communication theory comes from information I read about how the TCM operates - in that it ratios throttle input, A/F, cam phasing, etc to adjust line pressure.
Since I was/am having issues with throttle response (with ETC turned on via uprev) I think it is maybe related.
To top it off - I get a CAN communication error U1000 - my only error for the transmission. But the error is general, when scanned the vehicle is always in the ON position but not started - if I scan while idling I get no errors.
Now - you ask about the ABS. Can of worms opened.
I installed the engine by dropping the sub, the brakes were nearly dry upon installation. I power bled them - did not monkey with the ABS. First parking lot test ABS went apeshit, all lights and that jazz. Had air in the ABS for sure - no peddle, fluid was in loop. SO - I bled for hours while cycling the ABS - got peddle back, no lights.
Jump to first proper test drive where I discovered the transmission issue - 100 yards under 50% throttle, my ABS goes nuts, pedal starts pop locking. Slip and VDC. ****. I head back to shop in the glorious 1st gear and 5000rpm coast.
That is the ballad of unnecessarily complicated tech features.
You reckon the ABS will tell my transmission to f*ck off??
I hope you say yes - because that is an easy enough fix.
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08-21-2016, 08:36 AM
#8
New Member
I havent contacted them yet - started heavy troubleshooting as they closed, so will have to wait until tomorrow.
The lack of communication theory comes from information I read about how the TCM operates - in that it ratios throttle input, A/F, cam phasing, etc to adjust line pressure.
Since I was/am having issues with throttle response (with ETC turned on via uprev) I think it is maybe related.
To top it off - I get a CAN communication error U1000 - my only error for the transmission. But the error is general, when scanned the vehicle is always in the ON position but not started - if I scan while idling I get no errors.
Now - you ask about the ABS. Can of worms opened.
I installed the engine by dropping the sub, the brakes were nearly dry upon installation. I power bled them - did not monkey with the ABS. First parking lot test ABS went apeshit, all lights and that jazz. Had air in the ABS for sure - no peddle, fluid was in loop. SO - I bled for hours while cycling the ABS - got peddle back, no lights.
Jump to first proper test drive where I discovered the transmission issue - 100 yards under 50% throttle, my ABS goes nuts, pedal starts pop locking. Slip and VDC. ****. I head back to shop in the glorious 1st gear and 5000rpm coast.
That is the ballad of unnecessarily complicated tech features.
You reckon the ABS will tell my transmission to f*ck off??
I hope you say yes - because that is an easy enough fix.
The lack of communication theory comes from information I read about how the TCM operates - in that it ratios throttle input, A/F, cam phasing, etc to adjust line pressure.
Since I was/am having issues with throttle response (with ETC turned on via uprev) I think it is maybe related.
To top it off - I get a CAN communication error U1000 - my only error for the transmission. But the error is general, when scanned the vehicle is always in the ON position but not started - if I scan while idling I get no errors.
Now - you ask about the ABS. Can of worms opened.
I installed the engine by dropping the sub, the brakes were nearly dry upon installation. I power bled them - did not monkey with the ABS. First parking lot test ABS went apeshit, all lights and that jazz. Had air in the ABS for sure - no peddle, fluid was in loop. SO - I bled for hours while cycling the ABS - got peddle back, no lights.
Jump to first proper test drive where I discovered the transmission issue - 100 yards under 50% throttle, my ABS goes nuts, pedal starts pop locking. Slip and VDC. ****. I head back to shop in the glorious 1st gear and 5000rpm coast.
That is the ballad of unnecessarily complicated tech features.
You reckon the ABS will tell my transmission to f*ck off??
I hope you say yes - because that is an easy enough fix.
the abs noises are an indication that there is a problem with wheel speed sensors in my experience.
Are you running a staggered wheel setup as of recently btw? You probably are aware that a difference in rolling diameter will cause problems.
Anyway, something that is stupid easy if you don't mind heat cycling the fresh engine again to try it out is unplugging the upper gray connector on the ABS module, like the drifters do, haha. It will at least help narrow down the problem.
If that gets it going, it could lead you to the root cause. I have mine unplugged right now to disable TCC 100%. AWD should still function without it plugged in but I'm not positive. I know it won't cause any hardware damage for you though.
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fat3oy (08-21-2016)
08-21-2016, 08:47 AM
#9
Dope idea. Will put the ecu and everything back in and give it a go.
Yes - my throttle is odd. It is not in limp or anything. When I WOT, it slowly revs up, sometimes to 2krm, sometimes to 3,5,7... is random. I cannot wop on the throttle at all - unless I go into uprev and turn ETC to off. Then throttle acts normally.
No idea what the correlation is, but my previous builds by default had ETC on - and my understanding is that they recommend it that way. Hence my thoughts that the problems are related.
Will give it a go with the ABS disconnected - something I have not yet tried.
Yes - my throttle is odd. It is not in limp or anything. When I WOT, it slowly revs up, sometimes to 2krm, sometimes to 3,5,7... is random. I cannot wop on the throttle at all - unless I go into uprev and turn ETC to off. Then throttle acts normally.
No idea what the correlation is, but my previous builds by default had ETC on - and my understanding is that they recommend it that way. Hence my thoughts that the problems are related.
Will give it a go with the ABS disconnected - something I have not yet tried.
08-21-2016, 09:05 AM
#10
New Member
Dope idea. Will put the ecu and everything back in and give it a go.
Yes - my throttle is odd. It is not in limp or anything. When I WOT, it slowly revs up, sometimes to 2krm, sometimes to 3,5,7... is random. I cannot wop on the throttle at all - unless I go into uprev and turn ETC to off. Then throttle acts normally.
No idea what the correlation is, but my previous builds by default had ETC on - and my understanding is that they recommend it that way. Hence my thoughts that the problems are related.
Will give it a go with the ABS disconnected - something I have not yet tried.
Yes - my throttle is odd. It is not in limp or anything. When I WOT, it slowly revs up, sometimes to 2krm, sometimes to 3,5,7... is random. I cannot wop on the throttle at all - unless I go into uprev and turn ETC to off. Then throttle acts normally.
No idea what the correlation is, but my previous builds by default had ETC on - and my understanding is that they recommend it that way. Hence my thoughts that the problems are related.
Will give it a go with the ABS disconnected - something I have not yet tried.
That is very weird that with ETC on it acts up.... Have you monitored the throttle pedal voltage output in rom editor? Should be ~.75-~5v
Two things just for peace of mind, you did the TB learn and idle relearn, right? and also are all of your grounds hooked up and in good order?
08-21-2016, 09:38 AM
#11
Yeah - so with ETC on, UPREV shows basically my pedal (V-ACCEL) putting out .5 volts at idle and maxing at 2.22v when to the floor - the throttle sits at .7 at idle then .78 when to the floor. So it is not correct.
With ETC off - I get .75 to 5 like it is supposed to. And the throttle responds as such.
I've swapped throttle bodies to two separate new ones - same results. Pinout with multimeter shows the same.
Yes I did all the corresponding relearns - manually and automatically. I origionally suspected a short in the harness and was going to patch a bridge to the throttle from the main connector - but since it works with ETC off, I figured all was well connectivity wise.
With ETC off - I get .75 to 5 like it is supposed to. And the throttle responds as such.
I've swapped throttle bodies to two separate new ones - same results. Pinout with multimeter shows the same.
Yes I did all the corresponding relearns - manually and automatically. I origionally suspected a short in the harness and was going to patch a bridge to the throttle from the main connector - but since it works with ETC off, I figured all was well connectivity wise.
08-21-2016, 09:53 AM
#13
New Member
Yeah - so with ETC on, UPREV shows basically my pedal (V-ACCEL) putting out .5 volts at idle and maxing at 2.22v when to the floor - the throttle sits at .7 at idle then .78 when to the floor. So it is not correct.
With ETC off - I get .75 to 5 like it is supposed to. And the throttle responds as such.
I've swapped throttle bodies to two separate new ones - same results. Pinout with multimeter shows the same.
Yes I did all the corresponding relearns - manually and automatically. I origionally suspected a short in the harness and was going to patch a bridge to the throttle from the main connector - but since it works with ETC off, I figured all was well connectivity wise.
With ETC off - I get .75 to 5 like it is supposed to. And the throttle responds as such.
I've swapped throttle bodies to two separate new ones - same results. Pinout with multimeter shows the same.
Yes I did all the corresponding relearns - manually and automatically. I origionally suspected a short in the harness and was going to patch a bridge to the throttle from the main connector - but since it works with ETC off, I figured all was well connectivity wise.
Let me know if that does anything, maybe start with the ETC on, give it a go, then try the ABS plug next so if you get lucky you know what did it.
So what exactly does ETC in uprev do then? hmm.
If it disables cruise control.... It could definitely play a role in your problem.
Though they don't mention to keep it on with AT vehicles, but hey.
Is your throttle map AFU? Or is it unmolested?
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fat3oy (08-21-2016)
08-21-2016, 10:01 AM
#14
Hmmmm. The cruise control may be the culprit? ABS kills cruise, ST/Angle kill cruise, Slip/TCS kills cruise.... Or at least it is all tied together with my issues.
Throttle map is using the generic UPREV Tuned preset - switched it to OEM - but nothing changed.
Throttle map is using the generic UPREV Tuned preset - switched it to OEM - but nothing changed.
08-21-2016, 10:25 AM
#15
New Member
All I can say is it is definitely all tied together in one clusterfick of a system. We'll fuggin sort this mess out. Keep pluggin away at it
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fat3oy (08-21-2016)
08-21-2016, 12:05 PM
#17
New Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVEhnoYJtok
08-21-2016, 02:53 PM
#18
What are you doing with the ECU out? I'm imagining this,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVEhnoYJtok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVEhnoYJtok
Okie dokie. No change.
ETC on, ABS connected = Stay in first, shitty throttle.
ETC on, ABS disconnected = stay in first, shitty throttle.
ETC off, ABS connected = stay in first, great throttle response
ETC off, ABS disconnected = stay in first, great throttle response
Tried transmission in manual with all 4, no change. Got up some speed and hard brake when the ABS was on to see if I can knock something right (step 4 of the LS swap handbook) and nothing changed.
Disconnected ICC with each step. No change.
With all of the above, never once tripped an AT code. Maybe my AT works good and everything else is just crappy??? Lol.
Back to square one.
08-21-2016, 03:00 PM
#19
New Member
Ah! The consult II instruction video.
Okie dokie. No change.
ETC on, ABS connected = Stay in first, shitty throttle.
ETC on, ABS disconnected = stay in first, shitty throttle.
ETC off, ABS connected = stay in first, great throttle response
ETC off, ABS disconnected = stay in first, great throttle response
Tried transmission in manual with all 4, no change. Got up some speed and hard brake when the ABS was on to see if I can knock something right (step 4 of the LS swap handbook) and nothing changed.
Disconnected ICC with each step. No change.
With all of the above, never once tripped an AT code. Maybe my AT works good and everything else is just crappy??? Lol.
Back to square one.
Okie dokie. No change.
ETC on, ABS connected = Stay in first, shitty throttle.
ETC on, ABS disconnected = stay in first, shitty throttle.
ETC off, ABS connected = stay in first, great throttle response
ETC off, ABS disconnected = stay in first, great throttle response
Tried transmission in manual with all 4, no change. Got up some speed and hard brake when the ABS was on to see if I can knock something right (step 4 of the LS swap handbook) and nothing changed.
Disconnected ICC with each step. No change.
With all of the above, never once tripped an AT code. Maybe my AT works good and everything else is just crappy??? Lol.
Back to square one.
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fat3oy (08-21-2016)