.88 skid pad rating
06-26-2002, 07:34 AM
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.88 skid pad rating
I must admit, this is concerning me as well. I was told at the San Antonio prevue event that the 350Z's handling would be quite exceptional. And, well..... .88g would not qualify as exceptional. My Mazda MP3 has been recorded at .90g or .91g by all the major auto mags, most recently in the high speed handling test in Road and Track's June Issue. My MP3, despite it's lack of power, is a blast to drive. And I am expecting my 350 to eclipse my MP3's fun factor. And for about 17K more, it had better. Mind you, I am not saying that the I think the MP3 is better than the 350 in any way. I am just saying that the .88 number surprises me. Since the C&D test car was a pre-production model, I am hoping those last minute suspension tweaks I was told was causing the delivery delays are actually happening, and that they will greatly improve that number. Jman, are you at liberty to discuss anything about this and put my mind at ease? 
06-26-2002, 07:50 AM
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Well, MP350Z,
I think JmanZ is probably under a table somewhere shouting
"The peasants are revolting. Make it stop. Make the pain go away." Right now, it's a curse to have final stats! Am I right?
I think JmanZ is probably under a table somewhere shouting
"The peasants are revolting. Make it stop. Make the pain go away." Right now, it's a curse to have final stats! Am I right?
06-26-2002, 08:16 AM
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if he can scan the front cover, why can't he scan the article?
if the person that has the magazine is reading this, please scan the article so we can see what c&d has to say about it.
If you can only scan one page, scan the stats page. Thanks!
if the person that has the magazine is reading this, please scan the article so we can see what c&d has to say about it.
If you can only scan one page, scan the stats page. Thanks!
06-26-2002, 08:18 AM
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I am sure its legit. He emailed me a higher-res copy of the cover and its 100% real. I have never seen that picture before of a blue track 350Z. Regarding the guy who said Car and Driver never has anything going into the white area is incorrect and I found several of my past issues with graphics going into the white border area. Basically he just got it a week eariler than usual. I often receive Car and Driver during the first week of a new month. I do hope some of the other magazines pull some better skidpad and 1/4 times or the final production car improves slightly. I remember reading about test drives of pre-production G35's in Car and Driver and things were greatly improved when they did the first production test drives.
06-26-2002, 08:37 AM
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I could care less about the skidpad rating. The only thing that tests in my opinion is the car's tires. What I'd like to know is the slolam speed, that's a test that to me shows a lot more about how well a car handles.
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06-27-2002, 07:10 AM
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Its simple physics... those cars in the 0.9 range are lighter. Its easier for them to achieve those accelerations... It takes magic tricks for a 3300 pound vehicle to do it..
By the way the speed in the turn varies with the square root of the g number... so there is very little speed difference between 0.88 and 0.92 for instance.
By the way the speed in the turn varies with the square root of the g number... so there is very little speed difference between 0.88 and 0.92 for instance.
06-27-2002, 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by exsilio
skid pad rating is typically indicitive of how the car will do in the slalom.
skid pad rating is typically indicitive of how the car will do in the slalom.
Weight also has no bearing. A 3200 lb 911 GT2 has no difficulty pulling 1g.
Last edited by raceboy; 06-27-2002 at 07:22 AM.
06-27-2002, 07:28 AM
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Actually racerboy you are not right at all about my statement.
Here is some info for you to chew on that substantiates my statement:
The skidpad property of a car measures how much force it can take, both forward and back, left and right. Skidpad measurements are measured by "g's", which compare it to the acceleration of gravity. 1 G is defined as how energetically an object acclerates toward the ground in free fall. Skidpad measurements do not strictly determine how well a car handles, rather it gives an indication as to how well the car can 'hold onto the road.
Going through the two types of turns (Hairpin and Transition) the g.analyst graphs measure how much acceleration a car can take both side to side and forward to back. While some cars are able to hold on to the road well (and have a high skidpad rating), they may have trouble manuevering because body roll or improper balance.
The bold part supports my claim of the correlation between the skidpad rating and the slalom time.
Here is some info for you to chew on that substantiates my statement:
The skidpad property of a car measures how much force it can take, both forward and back, left and right. Skidpad measurements are measured by "g's", which compare it to the acceleration of gravity. 1 G is defined as how energetically an object acclerates toward the ground in free fall. Skidpad measurements do not strictly determine how well a car handles, rather it gives an indication as to how well the car can 'hold onto the road.
Going through the two types of turns (Hairpin and Transition) the g.analyst graphs measure how much acceleration a car can take both side to side and forward to back. While some cars are able to hold on to the road well (and have a high skidpad rating), they may have trouble manuevering because body roll or improper balance.
The bold part supports my claim of the correlation between the skidpad rating and the slalom time.
06-27-2002, 07:55 AM
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The skidpad test does not represent the balance of the car, which helps in a slalom test. Lateral grip does have a lot to do with fast slalom numbers, but the suspension plays a large part also.
Of course, chevy can get just shy of 1g out of a stock C5, which weighs in about the same. I expect this number will be shown to be higher on production models.
This does lead in to a worry I do have, and that is traction. Many other front engine / rear drive cars have wider tires to afford traction, and even then light up the tires on hard launches. It is not uncommon for a 300hp car to light up 275s, and we have a slimmer tire in the rear. The vette gets impressive skidpad numbers with very wide tires, which also give great launches from a stop. Anyone know how wide we can go on the Z?
Of course, chevy can get just shy of 1g out of a stock C5, which weighs in about the same. I expect this number will be shown to be higher on production models.
This does lead in to a worry I do have, and that is traction. Many other front engine / rear drive cars have wider tires to afford traction, and even then light up the tires on hard launches. It is not uncommon for a 300hp car to light up 275s, and we have a slimmer tire in the rear. The vette gets impressive skidpad numbers with very wide tires, which also give great launches from a stop. Anyone know how wide we can go on the Z?
06-27-2002, 08:30 AM
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Polar moment of inertia
Polar moment of inertia is what really tells you how the handling and fun to drive factor are. This shows how much of the cars weight is closer to the center of the vehicle. Take a bar bell with two weights on the extreme ends. As you move the mass closer to the center of the bar, the easier it is to change direction. If they were able to have a great deal of the weight moved toward the center, it will be very lively to drive. I mentioned this to the editor of Sport Z magazine. Hopefully they will follow up and give us a comparative rating on the polar moment of inertia in the Z vs. S2000 etc.
06-27-2002, 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by iMR2
the bold is describing a tool which supports raceboy's explaination.
the bold is describing a tool which supports raceboy's explaination.
06-27-2002, 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by exsilio
While some cars are able to hold on to the road well (and have a high skidpad rating), they may have trouble manuevering because body roll or improper balance.
While some cars are able to hold on to the road well (and have a high skidpad rating), they may have trouble manuevering because body roll or improper balance.
06-27-2002, 09:02 AM
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I see the breakdown in communication..my point is that if your skid pad score sucks AND your have excessive body roll/balance issues...ie inertia...then your slalom score will suck. So you CANT have a good slalom score if you skipad rating sucks...that is what I am trying to say..but I think I'll stick to things I know what I'm talking about heh heh 
06-27-2002, 09:10 AM
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That's the point we are trying to make. Even if the skidpad numbers SUCK, you CAN have a fast slalom time. A number of front wheel drive cars post skidpad numbers of around .80g and yeat beat cars through the slalom that post .90g or higher. Look at Miata's or MR2 Spyders at autocrosses. They routinely beat cars that post much higher skidpad numbers because the ability to change directions quickly is not related to outright grip.