Clapton9286

Correct. In fact, many people liken the M3 to a near race car status..myself, I believe a sports car is of reasonable weight (which the Z is..rarely are cars in its category lighter), nice power (check), 2 seats (check), rwd (check), and is really really fun to drive (check). Now you can get even more **** and say no air, a/c, power steering, etc. But let's not kid ourselves, the only reason thats in the definition are b/c the original sports cars, the British roadsters, didn't have them b/c the British electrical systems were absolutely horrendous. Stuff like that would have been over their heads completely...

"Oi mate I believe we have 3 cylinders running now!"
"What about ye AM/FM radio?"
"Gee ***** let's get the other spark going now!"

Etc, etc.

For me..I think the Z is a sports car people really love..and we have people who keep buying them to attest to that. I had a 280zx, and even if that became a bit heavier, I had no options on it. No air, no power steering. Just the car with a manual tranny. That was a sports car. My enthusiast 350? You better believe it!

Skull001

That's cool.

You have to be able to justify your purchases, and I can respect that.

Personally, for $48,900 bucks, I think the M3 is a pretty good deal for those kinds of numbers and the engineering, but that's just me.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not about to trade in my Z for an M3 because I love the kind of vehicle that the 350Z is. At the end of the day, though, brandname or not, the M3 can smoke a lot cars out there. Yeah, an Evo or WRX STi can probably beat it down for LESS money, but that's still doesn't change the fact that the E46 is a mean mother-effer.

The new E90 M3 looks like it's going to be even nastier, though.

Skull001

It's like George Orwell's Animal Farm: "Four legs good, two legs bad!" except it's "Two seats good, four seats bad!"

Uhh...think I went too far off on a tangent here. Never mind.

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

Have you priced an STi? Those things are like 34K with options. No cheaper than a Z for sure.

I agree though that the M3 is a great car. I drove a 1999 variant (not familiar with the model designations for these cars) and with 240 HP, it's fast, but it's not that fast. Of course, with 370 at the wheels in my Z, things are a little skewed, but still, it didn't feel threateninig to the Z to me.

rickyj59

It seems to me there is more of a majority on this thread that have no problem with the Z interior including me. Meybe the folks are pre-brainwashed by reviewing the reviewers and not making an independent judgement for themselves.

SB Track

That's right. I can also build up X rice car (Civic, accord, 240sx... etc etc) to be faster, with a full neighborhood pounding stereo, custom interior... BUTTTTTTTTTT in the end .. you have a RICE CAR!

You can also bring up that you have have bought an EVO or STi for the same price and just about owned in the Z in every aspect. There's a lot you can do with X amount of the difference of money. Does that make the SL 500 inferior to the 350Z before it is slower? HELL F*CKEN NO. You represent many others in this board that just don't get it. It's still a NISSAN after your done. Goodbye to any idea of a warranty or a resale.. Because who the hell wants to buy a fully TT Z with custom interior. Not many mind you. But who wants to buy a stock M3? Only about dozens of people in your area. So get the fact that you're still in a 350Z into your head. No amount of modification can make it anything different.

Now an example to help you understand your logic: Fully loaded track or 35th anni Z = $40k tops. Ferrari 430 Modena = ~$190k. That leaves you with aobut $150k in mods. Now I'm sure with all that money, you could squeeze more performance out of your Z and have some left over change. What does that leave you with? A worthless Z and a lot of payments.

Finally, for whoever said that the M3 had only adequate performance... Uhh.. look up some articles and some specs. The E46 is actually getting pretty old, even though they are some mean looking cars. I think that the M3 is the BEST package deal you can get for around $60k. It has one of the best engines of its size, along with great looks (inside and out) and build quality. I would trade my Z without blinking for one. With all that being said... just keep watch for the E90 M3.. Which should manage to eat most the F/I guys too.

ZlleH

iTrader: (7)

LOL, you miss the point completely. I like the look of the 350Z, unmodded from the exterior th. My arguement is for someone complaining that the M3 has better interior and power than the Z (of course it's gonna look good, it's frikin nearly twice as much! My point is for the money you save, you can buy the car that looks good to _YOU_ (looks are subjective and I like the looks of the Z stock more then I like the look of the M3 stock, hence why I didn't get a civic, accord, 240sx, etc.) and use the rest of the money to put in a nice interior if that is so important to you and also put in a kick a$$ twin turbo with a built motor. I don't see why no one is getting this point >_<;; I'm not even insulting the M3 >_<;;

The M3 was in my list of cars to get (used of course). I could have bought an M3 and drive it all seasons or buy a 350Z for a summer car and buy a jetta for a winter car. I choose the 350Z and the Jetta. Why? Because I love the look of the 350Z, I wanted a RWD car, I love how sexy it looks outside and inside, and the great handling and performance for it's price point.

PS: Mercedes SLK, Audi A4, and Porsche Boxster was also in my list of cars to decide on (all used of course), so if you haven't guessed it, this is my first asian car. I love how people fling the word "ricer" all over the place to make their arguement stronger without even knowing the person. I find that a low blow and unwarrented.

konaforever

Heh. You're funny.

Do you even know the stats on the M3? I doubt it.

Please do a little research and then post again on this subject.

Thank you and have a good day.

konaforever

That was a previous generation, E36. The E46 M3 has 333 HP and goes 0-60 in 4.8 and low 13's in the quarter mile.

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

got it. The end result is that the M3 is still a kick-@$$ car that offers sports car performance with a little more refinement, though maybe less "sports-car" styling than the Z.

Camel

The Z is cool, but honestly I regret not buying a C6 instead.

xNeo

Those of you who are saying that an M3 is not a sports car have never driven one, been in one, or even seen one race for that matter. The M3 is a beast, it might say 330hp and people can’t justify paying 55k for that (I have no idea where some of you guys come from, but here in Mass a USED M3 is 55k) but that thing hauls ***! My buddy has an M3 and his little brother a Z (test pipes, popcharger), NO COMPETITOIN AT ALL. The M3 pulls on him all day, and that was before he moded his M3! Handling might not be better than the Z, but I say it’s as good.

But then again when it comes to interior, I am more comfortable in the Z than the M3. Ok the Z doesn’t have leather on everything in every single place you look, but its more comfortable and MUCH better looking. I’m not a huge M3 fan, or biased towards it at all in anyway, just simply giving my $.02 from my experiences. I actually just got a new Job, and can actually afford an M3, but I honestly would rather the Z, I think its better bang for the buck!

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

I guess it really comes down to scemantics. Does performance make a sports car? How about number of seats? Doors? Who knows? One of the guys I work with has an M5. That thing is a big heavy four-door sedan but it will kick the snot out of a stock Z without even trying on a straight, and probably hold it's own in the corners. That doesn't make it a sports car though. There are guys around here with Honda Civics that will walk the Z all day long too....still not a sports car. So how do you define sports car? That's really up to you as an individual.

For me, the Z is an all around great sports car. It's a 2-door, 2-seater with a suspension built more for performance than ride comfort (not saying that it's uncomfortable at all), has performance tires, performance brakes, close ratio gear-box, etc. All signs of a sports car, and all at a great price, and it has a sense of elegance about it too. There aren't really any other cars on the market that fit this description. So depending on *your* definition of sports car, the Z is about the best out there in its' price class, and if price is a further restriction for your definition, that just adds advantage to the Z.

Balishag

as far as looks go, isnt that in the eye of the beholder? ill agree that its one of the best bangs for ur buck out there... but i wouldnt go as far as to say that its superior to all else out there

and the m3 is definetely a sports car.. i dont kno where some of u get off saying that its chopped liver, german engineering is perhaps known has being the most efficient in the world.. they are both comparable cars, with their own distinctive virtues.. but as one guy eloquently put it, i too would trade a Z for a e46 m3 straight up anyday

spacemn_spiff

iTrader: (3)

I am late bloomer to this discussion, just need to voice my opinion.

Umm, M3 are mean looking cars, let me think aloud, its a 3 series coupe with bigger wheels, exhaust tips and bigger front bumper and some side grills. I still cannot ignore the fact that its still only a 3 coupe. If that is formula to looking mean, just about any car will look mean.

About the M3 engines, very unreliable engines. I have to give credit where its deserved, they are tuned them for good performance, torque band and high revs etc. But the torque on the 3.2 engine is only 262 ft lbs, but good thing about the torque is that it lasts over wider rev range.

Also most people think that power/torque is everything, but forget that optimum power delivery by proper gearing is the key to good numbers and BMW does that really well to stay within max power/torque band. SMG and gearing is where they get good straight line numbers. So BMW doesnt really give you more torque but they use it better.

Now coming to best engineering, many car companies pack more power and tuned performance in their existing car line up. And BMW with M3 has exactly done that, just like Audi S4/RS4/RS6, Dodge with SRT4, Subaru with Impreza WRX STI, Mitsu with Lancer EVO. So are they really extraordinary engineering for a sports car, no, They are not sports car, may be a sporty or sport coupe or sedans. They are trying to sell you what you want without starting up with a clean slate to give you performance. I think thats like taking a shortcut to performance or lets say better tuning in easier terms.

Now Corvette is about engineering from the start, starting with a space frame, engine and transmission, everything is made with getting best performance and being economical at the same time. So for $50k, would I buy M3 for all the hype or fad about BMW, no its still based on a coupe/sedan, I would buy an Corvette which is a real sports car. Well since I dont want to spend that much money on a C6, the closest to well performing real sports car is the Z. So thats why I chose a Z.

And for many people buying BMW is to show off or a status symbol or hype, its a psychological thing. To me is not, I am comfortable with my status and dont need to prove anything to anyone, just wanted a well priced performance sports car being a car nut that I am, I got a Z.

If you want to wait for new BMW M3 thats coming out, wait for my modded jet powered Z (would love to dream that) that will literally leave M3 in flames. And with thrust vectoring I can handle better that you can physically ever achieve. So my point being, comparing apples to oranges is unfair. And there will always be something better than what you have.

You want to see Z race M3, here it is and M3 got beat on a track. http://auto.joins.com/upboard/pds/pd...kubaBattle.asf

I take all racing videos with a grain of salt, so much is dependant on the driver skils.

To sum it up, I think M3 is a great performer and has its place in the performance category.

Now I am open to hear opinions from people who think I am prejudiced.

konaforever

You forgot aluminum hood with power dome, flared fenders, wider tires, different rear bumper, and a wider rear track, which gives it a lower, wider stance. It doesn't share a single body panel with the normal 3 series.

Besides that, they're almost the same.

spacemn_spiff

iTrader: (3)

Well said.

spacemn_spiff

iTrader: (3)

I dont look at body panels when it comes to performance, it does share the frame with the 3 but with stiffners perhaps. Weight saving is important, the best they can do with shared frame is what they did with the M3, 3415 lbs, while C6 is at 3180 lbs.

With all that lower stance, I think it doesnt have a lower CG than a C6 Corvette. And thats where part of the performance is.

konaforever

Yet the M3 can run around a track as well as a C5 Corvette. In fact, faster timed around the Nurburgring. The E46 M3 and C5 came out around the same time. That's why I'm comparing those two.

8:22 --- 147.749 km/h -- BMW M3 E46, 343 PS/1584 kg (sport auto 12/2000)

8:40 --- 142.615 km/h -- Chevrolet Corvette C5 automatic, 344 PS/1505 kg (sport auto 07/1997)

That sports car definitely beat the sports coupe.

What you're forgetting is the the 3 series is the best in its class already. Having it as a base is a lot better start than most cars suped up. You make it sound like the 3 series is some average econobox.

konaforever

I was responding to your "M3 doesn't look mean" part of your post in regard to not having many exterior differences than a regular 3 series couple. It was more than you had mentioned.

Oh, and add a back seat to the C6 and see how much it weighs!