how do you disable vdc completly?
08-24-2005, 06:17 PM
#41
Originally Posted by MulhollandDrive
But the data does not support your position. Driving may be more fun and absolute tract times may be quicker with VDC off, but is less dangerous in general in the real world with VDC on. VDC has reduced the mortality rate, but ABS has not reduced the mortality rate. This may not make sense to some, but them is the facts. I should also note that some editors have found that track times are actually quicker in some high performance cars with very mild VDC (especially the TCS) on. This is of course, an opinion, not a fact.
An experienced driver has full control of their car... Are completely intune with it and know how to control it in every way... Can hold back its power, can put it to use... They can make a car without ABS or any other traction system seem like it does...
There are cars however that have traction control systems and abs systems in tune for a specific driving... A Formula 1 car has a very sophisticated TCS... Then again, that is a car that experiences 4-5 G's underbraking...
08-24-2005, 07:44 PM
#42
Originally Posted by Jason@Performance
no denying that that is true... But that does not apply to all drivers...
An experienced driver has full control of their car... Are completely intune with it and know how to control it in every way... Can hold back its power, can put it to use... They can make a car without ABS or any other traction system seem like it does...
There are cars however that have traction control systems and abs systems in tune for a specific driving... A Formula 1 car has a very sophisticated TCS... Then again, that is a car that experiences 4-5 G's underbraking...
An experienced driver has full control of their car... Are completely intune with it and know how to control it in every way... Can hold back its power, can put it to use... They can make a car without ABS or any other traction system seem like it does...
There are cars however that have traction control systems and abs systems in tune for a specific driving... A Formula 1 car has a very sophisticated TCS... Then again, that is a car that experiences 4-5 G's underbraking...
Like MustGoFastR said, different model year might account for different car behaviour.
I say again, when my VDC is off, it's off. The SLIP light never came on when the VDC was off on my car. Heck, I have the 180 deges fish-tail on video and could post it online. The car never hesitated to kick out !
One more comment about installing a switch to kill the VDC. Has anybody ever tought what would happen if you crash seriously and your insurance company finds that "upgrade" ? Fuses are easier to put back in with no traces...
08-24-2005, 09:25 PM
#44
Originally Posted by Kolia
Full car control only happens for relatively short periods of time and certainly not while navigating your way to work thinking about what the day will bring...
Like MustGoFastR said, different model year might account for different car behaviour.
I say again, when my VDC is off, it's off. The SLIP light never came on when the VDC was off on my car. Heck, I have the 180 deges fish-tail on video and could post it online. The car never hesitated to kick out !
One more comment about installing a switch to kill the VDC. Has anybody ever tought what would happen if you crash seriously and your insurance company finds that "upgrade" ? Fuses are easier to put back in with no traces...
Like MustGoFastR said, different model year might account for different car behaviour.
I say again, when my VDC is off, it's off. The SLIP light never came on when the VDC was off on my car. Heck, I have the 180 deges fish-tail on video and could post it online. The car never hesitated to kick out !
One more comment about installing a switch to kill the VDC. Has anybody ever tought what would happen if you crash seriously and your insurance company finds that "upgrade" ? Fuses are easier to put back in with no traces...
I should be thinking of street driving... im thinking more for track driving...
On the street, you really never know the environment you are in until you are litterally driving on it...
On the track, you have alot of that worry out of the way and can predict what will happen because the envrionment doesnt change as much...
08-25-2005, 12:48 AM
#45
Originally Posted by MulhollandDrive
But the data does not support your position. Driving may be more fun and absolute tract times may be quicker with VDC off, but is less dangerous in general in the real world with VDC on. VDC has reduced the mortality rate, but ABS has not reduced the mortality rate. This may not make sense to some, but them is the facts. I should also note that some editors have found that track times are actually quicker in some high performance cars with very mild VDC (especially the TCS) on. This is of course, an opinion, not a fact.
yeah.......
not going to change my mind though, TCS contributed to me wrecking my first Z and the TCS portion of the VDC has given me a few close calls when making a quick right turn into fast moving traffic and it cutting the engine.
independant braking by itself I don't think is so bad, but TCS I think is. If it's going to be capable of cutting engine throttle, IMO it should be capable of adding throttle to shift weight to the rear when it needs to - the only way to do that right now is you being in control and pushing the gas pedal. If TCS is activated, you're going to get a 2 sec delay before it lets you give it some gas again.
it's all about what your first reaction is in situations. Most people on the street have no idea what it feels like to kick the tail of the car out a little. Everyone's first reaction is to BRAKE! cause they don't know what else to do. They think braking will stop the situation, not make it worse.
I'm not one of those people and neither are a lot of people who at least know the basics of performance driving
Originally Posted by Kolia
I say again, when my VDC is off, it's off. The SLIP light never came on when the VDC was off on my car. Heck, I have the 180 deges fish-tail on video and could post it online. The car never hesitated to kick out !
One more comment about installing a switch to kill the VDC. Has anybody ever tought what would happen if you crash seriously and your insurance company finds that "upgrade" ? Fuses are easier to put back in with no traces...
I dunno, I can get the slip light to come on with VDC "off" within about 3 min of starting my car. Come watch me drive. It'll kick in.
When driving on some bad roads with ridges and potholes etc, the slip light will come on and I can feel some of the VDC braking happening at times. Feels like a ghost is nudging a corner of the car.
And I can actually feel a slight difference in the reaction time of the car with VDC disabled vs being OFF. It's not huge, but it's enough to feel it. I've gone back and forth a couple times to make sure my mind wasn't playing tricks on me and I do like it better.
as far as insurance companies. When I wrecked my first car, all that happened was the agent went to the wrecked car lot and said yup it's totalled. Didn't even bother to look into any of those details. Not saying certain companies wouldn't dig, but man that sucks to be stuck with them backing you up then. They're obligated to pay for your car if it's wrecked and even if its your fault. That's their job. Seat belts are different. That's the law because they're so important. Traction control is hardly a law. Any good judge would back you up I'd guess if you took your insurance company to court. If using traction control was a mandatory law, then I could see having potential issues
Last edited by sentry65; 08-25-2005 at 01:09 AM.
08-25-2005, 02:59 AM
#46
Originally Posted by sentry65
I dunno, I can get the slip light to come on with VDC "off" within about 3 min of starting my car. Come watch me drive. It'll kick in.
When driving on some bad roads with ridges and potholes etc, the slip light will come on and I can feel some of the VDC braking happening at times. Feels like a ghost is nudging a corner of the car.
And I can actually feel a slight difference in the reaction time of the car with VDC disabled vs being OFF. It's not huge, but it's enough to feel it. I've gone back and forth a couple times to make sure my mind wasn't playing tricks on me and I do like it better.
When driving on some bad roads with ridges and potholes etc, the slip light will come on and I can feel some of the VDC braking happening at times. Feels like a ghost is nudging a corner of the car.
And I can actually feel a slight difference in the reaction time of the car with VDC disabled vs being OFF. It's not huge, but it's enough to feel it. I've gone back and forth a couple times to make sure my mind wasn't playing tricks on me and I do like it better.
Anybody has tested with an '04 ? How about non-Track '05 ?
I like the VDC dissable vs VDC off terminology. Makes things clearer!
08-25-2005, 05:18 AM
#47
I was hoping this thread would not break down into another "VDC/TCS on or off thread" and stay with the mechanics of doing a modification...
but since it has.
If you were getting a two second delay with TCS, you were way to deep in the throttle for whatever is going on anyway. The TCS is more subtle than that, slippage within reason does not even bring it on. Minor over revs have the light come on and if you adjust, it goes off instantly and you can start slipping it again. More power than that and it starts coming in stronger and lasting longer. It's all very predictable at the cars level of traction.
I may not know every little oddity of this car but I test the TCS every day I go to work, yes, every day. It is very predictable and not nearly as invasive as you insist it is. Control of the light is by way of your right foot.
Given your other explanations about your hard braking on the street and your TCS issues, it sounds like you are overdriving the 3000 lb. car for it's available traction and no electronics is going to correct for that.
Chris
but since it has.
Originally Posted by sentry65
yeah.......
get a 2 sec delay before it lets you give it some gas again.
get a 2 sec delay before it lets you give it some gas again.
I may not know every little oddity of this car but I test the TCS every day I go to work, yes, every day. It is very predictable and not nearly as invasive as you insist it is. Control of the light is by way of your right foot.
Given your other explanations about your hard braking on the street and your TCS issues, it sounds like you are overdriving the 3000 lb. car for it's available traction and no electronics is going to correct for that.
Chris
08-25-2005, 06:06 AM
#48
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Instead of adding a separate switch to cut power to the g-meter under the center console could you use the stock switch to do it? Hard wire the wires that are currently on the vdc now so that its always a close circuit (or open depending on the action of the switch) and then use the switch to cut the power to the g-meter. Anyone know how the vdc switch operates? Normally open? Normally closed? Momentary? How many wires on the back? ect... Doing this would have the VDC switch turn the system off completely except for abs if im following this thread correctly. Also, how do you remove the vdc switch from the dash?
08-25-2005, 07:24 AM
#49
Originally Posted by HyperSprite
I was hoping this thread would not break down into another "VDC/TCS on or off thread" and stay with the mechanics of doing a modification...
but since it has.
If you were getting a two second delay with TCS, you were way to deep in the throttle for whatever is going on anyway. The TCS is more subtle than that, slippage within reason does not even bring it on. Minor over revs have the light come on and if you adjust, it goes off instantly and you can start slipping it again. More power than that and it starts coming in stronger and lasting longer. It's all very predictable at the cars level of traction.
I may not know every little oddity of this car but I test the TCS every day I go to work, yes, every day. It is very predictable and not nearly as invasive as you insist it is. Control of the light is by way of your right foot.
Given your other explanations about your hard braking on the street and your TCS issues, it sounds like you are overdriving the 3000 lb. car for it's available traction and no electronics is going to correct for that.
Chris
but since it has.
If you were getting a two second delay with TCS, you were way to deep in the throttle for whatever is going on anyway. The TCS is more subtle than that, slippage within reason does not even bring it on. Minor over revs have the light come on and if you adjust, it goes off instantly and you can start slipping it again. More power than that and it starts coming in stronger and lasting longer. It's all very predictable at the cars level of traction.
I may not know every little oddity of this car but I test the TCS every day I go to work, yes, every day. It is very predictable and not nearly as invasive as you insist it is. Control of the light is by way of your right foot.
Given your other explanations about your hard braking on the street and your TCS issues, it sounds like you are overdriving the 3000 lb. car for it's available traction and no electronics is going to correct for that.
Chris
I don't know but I know my car and what it'll do. I've never felt like the car is way too deep in the throttle for my own good unless I've purposely done so and got predictable results from it. I think predictability is better than unpredictability.
I should note that I have the nismo LSD at 60% lock up and big wide 295's in the back. I can get a tire to skid slightly when making a turn. That doesn't mean my car is out of control - it's in MORE control because I have an LSD that will put the traction down on the inside tire unlike the stock VLSD. It makes VDC/TCS go nuts on or off. It's way more predictable to have it disabled in my case.
A little tire chirping never hurt anyone. I'm always forgetting my car isn't the same as everyone else's car because of my mods...
Last edited by sentry65; 08-25-2005 at 07:54 AM.
08-25-2005, 08:24 AM
#50
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Originally Posted by Kolia
I don't doubt your word. Our cars programming is obviously different.
Anybody has tested with an '04 ? How about non-Track '05 ?
I like the VDC dissable vs VDC off terminology. Makes things clearer!
Anybody has tested with an '04 ? How about non-Track '05 ?
I like the VDC dissable vs VDC off terminology. Makes things clearer!
Now, granted, my experience isn't all that definitive because I have yet to track my car, so the slides I have done have been very limited. But I have done them, nonetheless.
08-25-2005, 12:43 PM
#51
How to do the switch is discussed here:
https://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/129396-removing-the-fuse-for-the-vdc-traction-control-safe.html
https://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/129396-removing-the-fuse-for-the-vdc-traction-control-safe.html
08-25-2005, 04:47 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by sentry65
yeah.......
not going to change my mind though, TCS contributed to me wrecking my first Z and the TCS portion of the VDC has given me a few close calls when making a quick right turn into fast moving traffic and it cutting the engine.
independant braking by itself I don't think is so bad, but TCS I think is. If it's going to be capable of cutting engine throttle, IMO it should be capable of adding throttle to shift weight to the rear when it needs to - the only way to do that right now is you being in control and pushing the gas pedal. If TCS is activated, you're going to get a 2 sec delay before it lets you give it some gas again.
not going to change my mind though, TCS contributed to me wrecking my first Z and the TCS portion of the VDC has given me a few close calls when making a quick right turn into fast moving traffic and it cutting the engine.
independant braking by itself I don't think is so bad, but TCS I think is. If it's going to be capable of cutting engine throttle, IMO it should be capable of adding throttle to shift weight to the rear when it needs to - the only way to do that right now is you being in control and pushing the gas pedal. If TCS is activated, you're going to get a 2 sec delay before it lets you give it some gas again.
08-25-2005, 07:19 PM
#53
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We road race a 350Z, with the VDC turned off, and have NO problem doing anything at all with the car, with no interference from the electronics. 03 Track model, with NISMO LSD, among MANY other things.
We're switching over to a dual master, manual brake setup, and we are investigating the electronics to see what we can/can't keep, as well as if we want to keep anything. Perhaps we'll uncover some info that will be useful to this thread, though perhaps not.
We're switching over to a dual master, manual brake setup, and we are investigating the electronics to see what we can/can't keep, as well as if we want to keep anything. Perhaps we'll uncover some info that will be useful to this thread, though perhaps not.
08-26-2005, 05:40 AM
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In my bmw and others to turn off the stability and traction TOTALLY off you have to hold the button in for a set number of seconds. Hitting it just once disables most of it, but holding it down for a while totally turns the thing off and you have to turn you car off and on to get it to come back on. Maybe it works the same way? Try it out..
09-15-2005, 06:10 AM
#56
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Just had something funky happen with VDC
I was doing the skidpad around a bunch of cones at a driving school. Trying to get into a perpetual drift around that circle of cones. It was one of the cool exercises we had to do for fun... skidpad was wet to facilitate us and not rape the tires.
with VDC off obviously... after about ~270 degree of drift, I would get a fixed SLIP light come on. And I could feel VDC DEFINITELY doing something... so much It would kill my drift. I could feel the car braking
Don't know if it's defective VDC or what. It felt almost like the car was not understanding what was going on, and went TILT. Like VDC got overwhelmed, saying something like "what the hell is going on? that's too much! that can't be right! HELP, ALERT, ALERT!!!"
To get the slip light to go away I had to switch off car.
I was doing the skidpad around a bunch of cones at a driving school. Trying to get into a perpetual drift around that circle of cones. It was one of the cool exercises we had to do for fun... skidpad was wet to facilitate us and not rape the tires.
with VDC off obviously... after about ~270 degree of drift, I would get a fixed SLIP light come on. And I could feel VDC DEFINITELY doing something... so much It would kill my drift. I could feel the car braking
Don't know if it's defective VDC or what. It felt almost like the car was not understanding what was going on, and went TILT. Like VDC got overwhelmed, saying something like "what the hell is going on? that's too much! that can't be right! HELP, ALERT, ALERT!!!"
To get the slip light to go away I had to switch off car.
Last edited by Nano; 09-15-2005 at 06:22 AM.
09-15-2005, 01:58 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by Nano
Just had something funky happen with VDC
I was doing the skidpad around a bunch of cones at a driving school. Trying to get into a perpetual drift around that circle of cones. It was one of the cool exercises we had to do for fun... skidpad was wet to facilitate us and not rape the tires.
with VDC off obviously... after about ~270 degree of drift, I would get a fixed SLIP light come on. And I could feel VDC DEFINITELY doing something... so much It would kill my drift. I could feel the car braking
Don't know if it's defective VDC or what. It felt almost like the car was not understanding what was going on, and went TILT. Like VDC got overwhelmed, saying something like "what the hell is going on? that's too much! that can't be right! HELP, ALERT, ALERT!!!"
To get the slip light to go away I had to switch off car.
I was doing the skidpad around a bunch of cones at a driving school. Trying to get into a perpetual drift around that circle of cones. It was one of the cool exercises we had to do for fun... skidpad was wet to facilitate us and not rape the tires.
with VDC off obviously... after about ~270 degree of drift, I would get a fixed SLIP light come on. And I could feel VDC DEFINITELY doing something... so much It would kill my drift. I could feel the car braking
Don't know if it's defective VDC or what. It felt almost like the car was not understanding what was going on, and went TILT. Like VDC got overwhelmed, saying something like "what the hell is going on? that's too much! that can't be right! HELP, ALERT, ALERT!!!"
To get the slip light to go away I had to switch off car.
Otherwise, great car.ps: It doesn't say anything in the manual about holding the button down for an extended period of time to fully shut off vdc for our 350z.
Last edited by The Mike; 09-15-2005 at 02:00 PM.
