Work with me here....
06-28-2002 | 02:32 AM
#41
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 623
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From: siphonband.com
Originally posted by neo4mni
I for one am grateful for this site, this is where i get most of my news from. I'm glad you spent the time & money to put it up.
I for one am grateful for this site, this is where i get most of my news from. I'm glad you spent the time & money to put it up.
I too am grateful Jay has put this site up, as are many others.
Which is, IMO, all the more reason to alert Jay to opinions about the current direction of the site. Jay can take them or leave them. If you read most of the posts with a level head, you will find the same feelings:
- the site is great overall
- the moderating is becoming too restrictive, on a variety of levels
Barring posting something completely childish, people should not have to second-guess whether their posts will be deleted. This creates an atmosphere of distrust and stifles peoples' willingness to share info.
Sounds like JmanZ has made his decision this time, that's ok, I'll hang around zcar.com till the 3rd.
Jay, I hope you reread these posts when you've settled down a little, and decide how you're going to handle the next media restriction. I will bet money that if the "censorship" continues you will see many people leave.
06-28-2002 | 02:32 AM
#42
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
I don't think anyone is saying they don't appreciate what Jay has done putting this site together and keeping it running. I like the format of the site and the good conversations. The thing I like about it best is that I read the latest and greatest news here before any other site has that. The news is typically coming from misc users that speak with someone on the inside or stumble across info or pictures.
The future of this site can go two different ways. If Jay wants this to become a news site with sit down interviews with Nissan executives then of course he must have a good relationship with Nissan. If he also wants to have a forum where people can chat about their car then thats good too.
But if the main purpose of my350z.com is to be THE forum for swapping the latest dirt then Nissan should not have much of a official relationship with this site, owners or moderators. As soon as even one post is deleted because a moderator is concerned about what Nissan might think or be unhappy about the purity of the site is lost. We should have the opportunity to read and post about anything we come across rather than what Nissan wants us to know or is ok with us discussing.
If Jay wants to become more in bed with Nissan then thats fine and this will still be a great site for Nissan articles and interviews (like freshalloy) and a place for 350Z owners to discuss their cars while other sites will be more about leaked information. Regardless of what Nissan does info will always leak but I hope we won't have to check other boards to find it. Its just that I don't think this site can have it both ways.
The future of this site can go two different ways. If Jay wants this to become a news site with sit down interviews with Nissan executives then of course he must have a good relationship with Nissan. If he also wants to have a forum where people can chat about their car then thats good too.
But if the main purpose of my350z.com is to be THE forum for swapping the latest dirt then Nissan should not have much of a official relationship with this site, owners or moderators. As soon as even one post is deleted because a moderator is concerned about what Nissan might think or be unhappy about the purity of the site is lost. We should have the opportunity to read and post about anything we come across rather than what Nissan wants us to know or is ok with us discussing.
If Jay wants to become more in bed with Nissan then thats fine and this will still be a great site for Nissan articles and interviews (like freshalloy) and a place for 350Z owners to discuss their cars while other sites will be more about leaked information. Regardless of what Nissan does info will always leak but I hope we won't have to check other boards to find it. Its just that I don't think this site can have it both ways.
06-28-2002 | 02:34 AM
#43
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Posts: n/a
I just read Kroams latest post and I wanted to comment.
I am not under Nissan's influence and I was not bribed to keep quiet. Heck, I wish I would have been. At least I'd be getting something tangible from this.
I am not sure what it means to you Kroams.... so I'll ask.
If you give your word, at what extent to go to keep your word? Would you stand up to all that questioned your decision? Would you keep your word when the going got tough or give in?
I gave my word. It's no harder to understand that that.
Jay
I am not under Nissan's influence and I was not bribed to keep quiet. Heck, I wish I would have been. At least I'd be getting something tangible from this.
I am not sure what it means to you Kroams.... so I'll ask.
If you give your word, at what extent to go to keep your word? Would you stand up to all that questioned your decision? Would you keep your word when the going got tough or give in?
I gave my word. It's no harder to understand that that.
Jay
06-28-2002 | 02:42 AM
#44
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 623
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From: siphonband.com
Originally posted by JmanZ
I gave my word. It's no harder to understand that that.
I gave my word. It's no harder to understand that that.
Regardless, I still say it's more important what happens next time, since this time is obviously a done deal.
You may think I'm being cheesy, but I would feel bad for you if everyone left this site upset, after all the work you've put into it. And then you don't even get anything from Nissan for your troubles.
06-28-2002 | 02:43 AM
#45
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 220
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From: Atlanta, GA
One last comment and I will get off my soap box. 
Jay, I am absolutely not trying to get you to violate your word to Nissan regarding the July 3rd thing. I know you agreed to it and you should honor that agreement. My only point is that in the future I hope you will side with us rather than Nissan or any other company for that matter. The main reason I started reading this site was because it felt like it was a forum run by a guy who loved this new Z just as much as us and was looking for a way to help everyone piece together this puzzle. In the future new puzzles will exist and we will be back to trying to figure it out. I only hope when that happens you will still be like us doing whatever you can to shed light on unknown topics rather than using the success of this site to build a relationship with Nissan limiting how you can participate in our quests for knowledge. I would much rather hear about info you received from an inside source in Japan rather than hearing you 100% know everything and in a month you will tell us at the same time all the magazines and NNA announce it.
Jay, I am absolutely not trying to get you to violate your word to Nissan regarding the July 3rd thing. I know you agreed to it and you should honor that agreement. My only point is that in the future I hope you will side with us rather than Nissan or any other company for that matter. The main reason I started reading this site was because it felt like it was a forum run by a guy who loved this new Z just as much as us and was looking for a way to help everyone piece together this puzzle. In the future new puzzles will exist and we will be back to trying to figure it out. I only hope when that happens you will still be like us doing whatever you can to shed light on unknown topics rather than using the success of this site to build a relationship with Nissan limiting how you can participate in our quests for knowledge. I would much rather hear about info you received from an inside source in Japan rather than hearing you 100% know everything and in a month you will tell us at the same time all the magazines and NNA announce it.
06-28-2002 | 02:48 AM
#46
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Posts: n/a
I agree with the fact that JMANZ made a promise to someone at nissan and he wants to keep his word. And if a man can't keep his word then what good is he? From what I understand, this means JMANZ is honor bound to not provide any information that is sensitive, confidential or in any way the protected property of nissan. I repsect that.
On the otherhand, I did not make this promise. Nor did most, if not all of the other members of this site. So on this hand I can see how people can disagree with JMANZ and be upset with 3rd party information being sensored...
But, this site is owned, operated and paid for by JMANZ. He is responsible for what gets posted here. He made a promise and doesn't want to get sued, and he doesn't want to forever be blacklisted by Nissan for breaking his promise just so you can know for certain what the 0-60 time is. I'm 150% certain that most of the information which has been censored can be found someplace else if you are determined enough and look hard enough.
In plain english this is his property and he can do whatever he wants. Temptation to spill the beans is probably gnawing at him every day, but I for one respect that he is keeping his word.
I've been waiting since January and I can continue to wait until July 3rd unless I have another massive coranary from all this drama.
Bottom line... Everybody is right... Can I have my car now? Please?
On the otherhand, I did not make this promise. Nor did most, if not all of the other members of this site. So on this hand I can see how people can disagree with JMANZ and be upset with 3rd party information being sensored...
But, this site is owned, operated and paid for by JMANZ. He is responsible for what gets posted here. He made a promise and doesn't want to get sued, and he doesn't want to forever be blacklisted by Nissan for breaking his promise just so you can know for certain what the 0-60 time is. I'm 150% certain that most of the information which has been censored can be found someplace else if you are determined enough and look hard enough.
In plain english this is his property and he can do whatever he wants. Temptation to spill the beans is probably gnawing at him every day, but I for one respect that he is keeping his word.
I've been waiting since January and I can continue to wait until July 3rd unless I have another massive coranary from all this drama.
Bottom line... Everybody is right... Can I have my car now? Please?
06-28-2002 | 02:50 AM
#47
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Posts: n/a
Nizl... I don't think you read what I had said reagarding my word to Nissan. It covered the site and forum. This means if someone breals Embargo and posts something, just as C & D removed their article from their website... I must do the same.
I know some people will leave because they feel the censorship or whatever has gotten to be bad. That's their choice and I completely respect their decision. Just as I would expect they'd respect my decision to keep my word to Nissan.
If someone wants to make a mountain out of a mole hill, they can but after the smoke clears... it's still just a mole hill.
Making a good relationship with the company that creates the car we love so much can only do good things for the members of this site. I am NOT saying that we'll always keep things quiet to keep the powers that be happy. I'd like to make note that I posted the stats before anyone else did. After Nissan spoke Embargo to me... did I go back and delete that post?
Nope. I left it there. I guess Nissan doesn't run the show quite as much as some people feel they do after all.
Did I remove the posts regarding the other things, like the spyder 350Z or the new engines, the new tranny's etc? Nope nope and umm... nope.
I am trying to do my best here people, the best thing for this site. I am not going to allow this site to be a thorn in Nissan's side, I'd much rather be on their good side. We will continue to do what we've done in the past, if anyone questions that, I'd ask you to check back from time to time and see for yourself.
I am honoring my word regarding July 3rd.
(I'm a poet and I didn't even know it)
-j-
I know some people will leave because they feel the censorship or whatever has gotten to be bad. That's their choice and I completely respect their decision. Just as I would expect they'd respect my decision to keep my word to Nissan.
If someone wants to make a mountain out of a mole hill, they can but after the smoke clears... it's still just a mole hill.
Making a good relationship with the company that creates the car we love so much can only do good things for the members of this site. I am NOT saying that we'll always keep things quiet to keep the powers that be happy. I'd like to make note that I posted the stats before anyone else did. After Nissan spoke Embargo to me... did I go back and delete that post?
Nope. I left it there. I guess Nissan doesn't run the show quite as much as some people feel they do after all.
Did I remove the posts regarding the other things, like the spyder 350Z or the new engines, the new tranny's etc? Nope nope and umm... nope.
I am trying to do my best here people, the best thing for this site. I am not going to allow this site to be a thorn in Nissan's side, I'd much rather be on their good side. We will continue to do what we've done in the past, if anyone questions that, I'd ask you to check back from time to time and see for yourself.
I am honoring my word regarding July 3rd.
(I'm a poet and I didn't even know it)
-j-
06-28-2002 | 02:57 AM
#49
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Posts: n/a
Valdis, I appreciated your post.
I agree that it's not my fault if you or someone else posts something on the site. I understand you and the others never gave any such word to Nissan but as I have said many times, I did and my word covered this site. Not what I posted, but what we all posted.
July 3rd is coming... and this problem will leave. I am sure others will speculate that new problems with future embargos will arise. Welcome to the real world. Embargos take place with every form of media and if asked, I will respect other embargos if the reasons laid before me are reasonable.
Nissan's request was more than reasonable so I made the choice.
One thing though Valdis that I'd like to correct you on if it's alright with you.
This site is paid for my myself and the donations of others. Out of 1100 people, about 95 have donated one amount or another to the operation and upkeep of this site.
I can speak for everyone (I think) when I say thank you to those that have helped with the site.
Jay
I agree that it's not my fault if you or someone else posts something on the site. I understand you and the others never gave any such word to Nissan but as I have said many times, I did and my word covered this site. Not what I posted, but what we all posted.
July 3rd is coming... and this problem will leave. I am sure others will speculate that new problems with future embargos will arise. Welcome to the real world. Embargos take place with every form of media and if asked, I will respect other embargos if the reasons laid before me are reasonable.
Nissan's request was more than reasonable so I made the choice.
One thing though Valdis that I'd like to correct you on if it's alright with you.
This site is paid for my myself and the donations of others. Out of 1100 people, about 95 have donated one amount or another to the operation and upkeep of this site.
I can speak for everyone (I think) when I say thank you to those that have helped with the site.
Jay
06-28-2002 | 03:01 AM
#50
Jay gave his word to Nissan when they ask that he remove the information and keep it off until after the 3rd. I gave the same oath to the people who provided the information to me (not to post info publicly). Nissan knows people will find out one way or another. It is not a matter of secrets but a matter of business strategy. What if the information was quoted everywhere from one or two sources and then on or before July 3rd Nissan releases an update to their previous releases with better numbers or even worse numbers. It is bad for Nissan. If they are better numbers do you think the publications will make a point of correcting them? Even if they do the damage has been done. If the numbers are worse than expected then you have a Q45 or SE-R type of breakout. It is in Nissans best interest to keep the information from the public until it is absolutely final. This being said if there were an update it would have already been released to beat the publication's deadlines for printing.
Jay keep up the great relationships with Nissan. I think it will be worth it in the long run. It is clear this is the largest following for the 350Z and Nissan knows it. Nissan is a great company and I hope they shower you with gifts, future early releases, and corporate endorsements.
Jay keep up the great relationships with Nissan. I think it will be worth it in the long run. It is clear this is the largest following for the 350Z and Nissan knows it. Nissan is a great company and I hope they shower you with gifts, future early releases, and corporate endorsements.
06-28-2002 | 03:04 AM
#51
Registered User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 256
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From: Concord, Cali
I think both sides have represented their case well. Lets all hope that the site is better in the longrun for this and that the topic has progressed far enough to close the thread. I for one would like to close this chapter on the ugly my350z censorship scandal.
06-28-2002 | 03:08 AM
#52
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 623
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From: siphonband.com
Originally posted by 350zpower
I think both sides have represented their case well. Lets all hope that the site is better in the longrun for this and that the topic has progressed far enough to close the thread.
I think both sides have represented their case well. Lets all hope that the site is better in the longrun for this and that the topic has progressed far enough to close the thread.
http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb2/sh...threadid=95041
But yes, I think everyone sees everyone else's point in this instance.
06-28-2002 | 03:11 AM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by Serenidad
hehehe, what do you think Nissan is God? They cant do diddly. This is the internet, this is America. They could not do didley if you released a scan, or a tidbit. And if they went around TRYING to squash (now im definately convinced you have a power complex) sites, they would be so quickly frowned upon it would be bad counterproductive on their part.
However, im sure they have the forsight and wisdom to see what is in their interests, unlike some people.
hehehe, what do you think Nissan is God? They cant do diddly. This is the internet, this is America. They could not do didley if you released a scan, or a tidbit. And if they went around TRYING to squash (now im definately convinced you have a power complex) sites, they would be so quickly frowned upon it would be bad counterproductive on their part.
However, im sure they have the forsight and wisdom to see what is in their interests, unlike some people.
Serenidad.... I think perhaps you need to look what trademark and copyright law is. Nissan can do diddly. They can shut this site down and as for it being counter productive... you're dead wrong. This sort of thing happens all the time in this little place I like to call reality. I'm sorry if that sounds like I am picking a fight, I don't mean to but you come in here and all you've done is whine. I have had several requests from members as well as mods to ban you because you are picking fights and causing problems.
Have I though? No.
I haven't banned you because I have to believe that you have some positive things to say. If I am to be proven wrong though, I have no problem removing you, your posts and everything else regarding you from the site. Think that would be counter productive? Think in a month anyone would would care?
I do believe my point was just made. I worked for close to three years for a large law firm, there are many lawyers on this site, I am certain others understand copyright/trademark law.
Perhaps you need to do your homework before you post on topics you have either zero knowledge on, or zero respect for.
Jay
ps
at the request of others, including those in this thread, I am closing this thread. If you have issue, email me or pm me.
Basically, let's stop fighting. July 3rd is coming.
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