AT vs MT
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My previous car was an AT and it was nothing but regrets. People were saying you should have gone stick or you could do this with a stick...after awhile it seemed embarassing driving an AT sportscar. I am glad that my new Z is now 6MT. No more regrets!
Originally Posted by initial_z33
My previous car was an AT and it was nothing but regrets. People were saying you should have gone stick or you could do this with a stick...after awhile it seemed embarassing driving an AT sportscar. I am glad that my new Z is now 6MT. No more regrets!
I just beat the living **** out of them and they stop talking **** until their dental work gets done. They don't talk **** to my face after that.
"You can't be a man if you don't smoke the same cigerettes as me ..."
If you really have to prove your self worth by the transmission on your car you have major major issues. I suppose if you go around beating down slugs that bad mouth your choice in transmission you have anger management issues ...
Heck if you measure yourself worth on any carp that you own you have issues. I suppose that's how shallow America has become, I'm a better person than you because I have a manual transmission, a 62" plasma HDTV, and and cool cell phone.
Originally Posted by Aggro_Al
When BMW calls the SMG a standard manual, then I will call it a standard manual, also.
http://www.m3smg.com/files/smgmanual.pdf
http://www.m3smg.com/files/smgmanual.pdf
Scroll down, and you'll see what he "M" in SMG stands for.
Thanks for the refresher, but I wasn't confused in the slightest. So, the fact is they can be actualed automatically, but that doesn't make it any more of an "automatic" transmission than an Automatic which lets you pick gear is a "manual"
From your own link:
the SMG II is technically identical with the regular manual gearbox
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The official title from BMW of what SMG stands for is "Sequential M Gearbox" not "Sequential Manual Gearbox". Only in the US market is it called the "Sequential Manual Gearbox" because it makes sense marketingwise. They can sell more SMG trannies in the US if people think it's a manual. The rest of the world goes by the official BMW name for the tranny. The "Sequential M Gearbox" is named after the M Series BMWs that originally came with the tranny.
Yes you are right, having an automatic with manual-mode override doesn't make it a manual transmission. If you read my previous post I said that only the standard transmission qualifies as a manual transmission. Yes, you are right that the SMG uses the "exact same gearbox" that is used in the standard manual. I never said that it didn't and as you pointed out it also says it in the Dealer Manual. Just because the SMG uses the some of the same parts as the standard manual doesn't make it a manual. What makes it an automatic is the way it operates and not the parts they use. It doesn't have to have a torque converter to be an automatic transmission. No matter what I say or you say, though, BMW calls the SMG an automatic transmission and I think they know more about the SMG than anyone else. Like I said before, when BMW calls it something else, I will call it what they call it.
Yes you are right, having an automatic with manual-mode override doesn't make it a manual transmission. If you read my previous post I said that only the standard transmission qualifies as a manual transmission. Yes, you are right that the SMG uses the "exact same gearbox" that is used in the standard manual. I never said that it didn't and as you pointed out it also says it in the Dealer Manual. Just because the SMG uses the some of the same parts as the standard manual doesn't make it a manual. What makes it an automatic is the way it operates and not the parts they use. It doesn't have to have a torque converter to be an automatic transmission. No matter what I say or you say, though, BMW calls the SMG an automatic transmission and I think they know more about the SMG than anyone else. Like I said before, when BMW calls it something else, I will call it what they call it.
You mean when BMW calls it that besides when they call it that cause they mean something else? I think this debate is even dumber than the manual v/ auto thread it's hijacked... Call it what you want, but... I don't speak any german, but I'll take a guess as to what this means:
There was also an SMG (or SMT depending where you look) called Sequential Manual Gearbox (or transmission) on the Toyota MR2, which had no automatic mode IIRC.
Sequenzielles Manuelles Getriebe (SMG): Sportlich
Auf Wunsch ist das Sequenzielle Manuelle 6-Gang-Getriebe erhältlich, mit dem das Hoch- und Runterschalten in Motorsport-Dimensionen vorstößt.
Auf Wunsch ist das Sequenzielle Manuelle 6-Gang-Getriebe erhältlich, mit dem das Hoch- und Runterschalten in Motorsport-Dimensionen vorstößt.
Last edited by Dissident; Feb 7, 2006 at 08:14 PM.
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Originally Posted by Dissident
You mean when BMW calls it that besides when they call it that cause they mean something else? I think this debate is even dumber than the manual v/ auto thread it's hijacked... Call it what you want, but... I don't speak any german, but I'll take a guess as to what this means:
There was also an SMG (or SMT depending where you look) called Sequential Manual Gearbox (or transmission) on the Toyota MR2, which had no automatic mode IIRC.
There was also an SMG (or SMT depending where you look) called Sequential Manual Gearbox (or transmission) on the Toyota MR2, which had no automatic mode IIRC.
I'm not sure where your quote came from but here is a link directly from BMW Deutschland that clearly calls it the Sequenzielles M Getriebe.
http://www.bmw.de/auto/m3_cabrio/m3cab_smg2.htm
From BMW-Treff
Mit dem Sequenziellen M Getriebe Drivelogic (auch als SMG Drivelogic bekannt) wurde ein Hochleistungs-Antriebskonzept für den M3 geschaffen, das die Vorzüge des Formel-1-Getriebes mit den Anforderungen des Alltagsbetriebs verbindet.
Dabei kann der Fahrer die Schaltcharakteristik des Sequenziellen M Getriebes Drivelogic durch elf Fahrprogramme (sechs sequenzielle, fünf automatisierte) an seinen persönlichen Fahrstil anpassen.
Durch am Lenkrad angebrachte Schaltwippen zum Hoch- und Runterschalten lassen sich Schaltvorgänge in bis zu 80 Millisekunden erledigen. Der Schaltimpuls wird elektrisch (Shift by Wire) und redundant (zeitgleich und parallel, analog der Steuerung in Luft- und Raumfahrt) übertragen. Den mechanischen Kupplungs- und Schaltvorgang übernimmt ein elektrohydraulisches System. Die Kraftübertragung erfolgt wie beim herkömmlichen M3 über eine (->) SAC-Kupplung und das bekannte BMW 6-Gang-Getriebe. Darüber hinaus besitzt das Sequenzielle M Getriebe Drivelogic zahlreiche Spezialfunktionen wie den Steigungs- und Beschleunigungsassistenten oder die Shift Lights.
Dabei kann der Fahrer die Schaltcharakteristik des Sequenziellen M Getriebes Drivelogic durch elf Fahrprogramme (sechs sequenzielle, fünf automatisierte) an seinen persönlichen Fahrstil anpassen.
Durch am Lenkrad angebrachte Schaltwippen zum Hoch- und Runterschalten lassen sich Schaltvorgänge in bis zu 80 Millisekunden erledigen. Der Schaltimpuls wird elektrisch (Shift by Wire) und redundant (zeitgleich und parallel, analog der Steuerung in Luft- und Raumfahrt) übertragen. Den mechanischen Kupplungs- und Schaltvorgang übernimmt ein elektrohydraulisches System. Die Kraftübertragung erfolgt wie beim herkömmlichen M3 über eine (->) SAC-Kupplung und das bekannte BMW 6-Gang-Getriebe. Darüber hinaus besitzt das Sequenzielle M Getriebe Drivelogic zahlreiche Spezialfunktionen wie den Steigungs- und Beschleunigungsassistenten oder die Shift Lights.
With the Sequenziellen M transmission Drivelogic (also as SMG Drivelogic admits) was created a high-power engine concept for the M3, which connects the advantages of the Formel-1-Getriebes with the requirements of the everyday life enterprise.
The driver can adapt the switching characteristic of the Sequenziellen M of transmission Drivelogic by eleven driving programs (automated six sequenzielle, five) to his personal style of driving.
Through at the steering wheel attached switching jacks to the high and Runterschalten can be settled shifting processes in up to 80 milliseconds. The switching impulse becomes electrical (SHIFTS by Wire) and redundantly (at the same time and parallel, similar to the control in air and space travel) transfer. The mechanical clutch and shifting process takes over an electrohydraulical system. The power transmission is made as with the conventional M3 by (- >) a SAC clutch and the well-known BMW 6-Gang-Getriebe. Beyond that the Sequenzielle M transmission Drivelogic possesses numerous special functions like the upward gradient and acceleration assistants or the SHIFTS Lights.
The driver can adapt the switching characteristic of the Sequenziellen M of transmission Drivelogic by eleven driving programs (automated six sequenzielle, five) to his personal style of driving.
Through at the steering wheel attached switching jacks to the high and Runterschalten can be settled shifting processes in up to 80 milliseconds. The switching impulse becomes electrical (SHIFTS by Wire) and redundantly (at the same time and parallel, similar to the control in air and space travel) transfer. The mechanical clutch and shifting process takes over an electrohydraulical system. The power transmission is made as with the conventional M3 by (- >) a SAC clutch and the well-known BMW 6-Gang-Getriebe. Beyond that the Sequenzielle M transmission Drivelogic possesses numerous special functions like the upward gradient and acceleration assistants or the SHIFTS Lights.
Last edited by Aggro_Al; Feb 7, 2006 at 09:44 PM.
When it was launched originally launched in 96, the SMG1, BMW used to call it (still does both here and other places) "manual". When it is used on a non //M car and once SMG II came out, they changed it to jus, and calls just "m" on those cars (which, uh, still doesn't stand for "automatic"). It's also called by most everyone else I've seen a "Sequential Manual Gearbox" when they talk about it in the context of F1 cars, Ferrari's, ralley cars, etc. Most people on the beemer forums call it a manual, despite it having an auto mode.
You are right, the toyota SMT sucks, but it is NO worse then the SMG on the Z4.
http://www.bmw.ch/bmwd/products/auto.../antrieb.shtml
http://www.bmwteam.at/lexikon/lexikon.php
My only point with all this nonsense was that it is an insult to compare a SMG to a regular automatic, which has a torque converter and shifts slower and provides no performance advatages, while the SMG-type transmission offers performance benefits (with or without automatic modes).
You are right, the toyota SMT sucks, but it is NO worse then the SMG on the Z4.
http://www.bmw.ch/bmwd/products/auto.../antrieb.shtml
das optionale Sequenzielle Manuelle Getriebe (SMG) im 325Ci und 330Ci
My only point with all this nonsense was that it is an insult to compare a SMG to a regular automatic, which has a torque converter and shifts slower and provides no performance advatages, while the SMG-type transmission offers performance benefits (with or without automatic modes).
Last edited by Dissident; Feb 8, 2006 at 09:43 AM.
Originally Posted by initial_z33
My previous car was an AT and it was nothing but regrets. People were saying you should have gone stick or you could do this with a stick...after awhile it seemed embarassing driving an AT sportscar. I am glad that my new Z is now 6MT. No more regrets!
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Originally Posted by xedes
I like the freedom of the auto. Put it in gear. One hand on the steering wheel and the other hand on the back of my girls head ( if you know what i mean) enough said!
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four
